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Old 04-05-2018, 09:45 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Coil length on 14 inch 2.0 kings

I broke a lower coil on my 2.0 kings. I'm trying to order a replacement. I know they are 100 over 150 for spring rate, but I don't know the lengths and am unable to get to the jeep to measure them.

I was told by a reputable source they are 16 by 150 but I don't see that length on the Filthy motorsports website.

Is there a standard coil length for these coilovers or are they done by user application?
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Old 04-05-2018, 10:41 AM   #2 (permalink)
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14" top and 16" bottom
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Old 04-05-2018, 10:50 AM   #3 (permalink)
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So after finding the spring tech thread and doing lotsa reading I am going to go with 200 16 lower and 100 14 upper.

King doesn't make a 150 16 lower in 2.5.
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Old 04-05-2018, 12:28 PM   #4 (permalink)
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So after finding the spring tech thread and doing lotsa reading I am going to go with 200 16 lower and 100 14 upper.

King doesn't make a 150 16 lower in 2.5.
I'm petty sure eibach does.. and Pac would too.. I would think. I think you'll like the new spring combo you picked.
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Old 04-05-2018, 12:34 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I think so too.

I re-valved the rear shocks and added a flutter shim on the compression right before KOH. The jeep worked very well, but in the go fast stuff it would tend to blow through the rears on hard hits.

Mind you I don't have bump stops in the rear so I wasn't doing the shocks any favors. The front end soaks up the go fast stuff and I rarely was hitting the bumps.

I'll try these springs with the current valving, add some bumps and try re-valving from there if I need to but I think I've got this thing pretty dialed for what I use it for.
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Old 04-07-2018, 02:37 PM   #6 (permalink)
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springs hold the vehicle up. if you are bottoming out youre valving need to be adjusted
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Old 04-07-2018, 04:13 PM   #7 (permalink)
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springs hold the vehicle up. if you are bottoming out youre valving need to be adjusted
Not true. Not enough spring will cause all sorts of issues.
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Old 04-07-2018, 09:15 PM   #8 (permalink)
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springs hold the vehicle up. if you are bottoming out youre valving need to be adjusted
I tend to agree with this a bit. After I re-valved the shocks and added a flutter shim, yes they did bottom out too quickly in the go fast stuff.

In my case, I think I need more lower spring and also to set the slide stop lower than where it is set. I'm using both springs for far too much of the shock travel. Setting the slide stop lower will cure some of my problems.

If the spring and slide stop don't get me where I want to be, I will add more compression valving starting with taking the flutter shim out.

Overall I have increased the rear suspension characteristics tenfold. Now I just need to dial it in to what makes me happy. I made some "large changes" with springs and shims, now I just need to get it dialed.
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Old 04-08-2018, 08:37 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Not true. Not enough spring will cause all sorts of issues.
What are the characteristics of not enough spring? Besides ride heights.
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Old 04-08-2018, 09:52 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I have some 3.0x14 racerunners I need coils for and I can't seem to get a 3.75" in 14" and 16" length with the rates I need. Seem to be stuck with a 8" and 22" or 10" and 20. Obviously the 10 and 20 would be the best choice but am I going to see some tuning/other issues with this?
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Old 04-08-2018, 02:56 PM   #11 (permalink)
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It looks like PAC makes reasonable rates in a 14. What about two 14s with a tender on the top?
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Old 04-08-2018, 03:22 PM   #12 (permalink)
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A tender? What the fuck for?

You need preload. The last thing you need to worry about is the springs coming loose when the shock tops out. Dual rate is all that is necessary. It’s 2018.

For the light spring subject, there’s no such thing as too light. Avoid coil bind and stay within the recommended 1”-3” preload and you’re golden. Springs only support the vehicle. Period.

Too much spring causes very dark things to happen that cannot be unfucked with any amount of tuning. Heavy springs are not the fix for shitty link geometry, compression tuning or roll control. Fix it properly. Lazy dumbasses throw spring rate at a problem. Don’t be that guy.

Select the appropriate spring (takes 1 try, best to start way light because the math does the talking after that) then tune tune tune. Valving, piston design, oil volume and weight, and nitrogen pressure.
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Old 04-08-2018, 04:35 PM   #13 (permalink)
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It looks like PAC makes reasonable rates in a 14. What about two 14s with a tender on the top?
PAC is twice the cost of eibach. $1400 for springs is fucking retarded.
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Old 04-08-2018, 08:40 PM   #14 (permalink)
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PAC is twice the cost of eibach. $1400 for springs is fucking retarded.
Where are you finding PAC springs twice as much as Eibach? From what I've seen Eibach are more than PAC everywhere.
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Old 04-08-2018, 08:55 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Where are you finding PAC springs twice as much as Eibach? From what I've seen Eibach are more than PAC everywhere.
Gets pretty pricey in Canadian Monopoly money.

$750 for king coils from either poly performance or filthy motorsports.
So $500 for Eibach is pretty damn good unless I'm missing something?
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Old 04-09-2018, 08:25 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Not true. Not enough spring will cause all sorts of issues.
how so?
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Old 04-09-2018, 02:15 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I don't necessarily agree that springs just hold the vehicle up.

On long travel trucks it's hard to get it wrong, but on short travel stuff spring rate becomes extremely important.

We may have more rates than our website shows. Always best to call if you have a difficult application.
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Old 04-09-2018, 02:50 PM   #18 (permalink)
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just curious how does one calculate spring rates for one who drives flat terrain and other who does 90% of driving steep uphills and downhills
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Old 04-12-2018, 09:44 PM   #19 (permalink)
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A tender? What the fuck for?

You need preload. The last thing you need to worry about is the springs coming loose when the shock tops out. Dual rate is all that is necessary. It’s 2018.

For the light spring subject, there’s no such thing as too light. Avoid coil bind and stay within the recommended 1”-3” preload and you’re golden. Springs only support the vehicle. Period.
This is 100% rock donkey talk. The OP is having problems in the highspeed stuff.

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how so?
Not enough spring and it turns into a wallowy pig in the corners. You have 2 options to try and bandaid this.

1. Cut down on the bleed and add a little rebound. This will compromise ride quality and handling in chattery stuff.

2. Really stiff sway bars. This will compromise traction exiting corners.
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Old 04-13-2018, 07:01 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Springs only support the vehicle. Period.


Even with wide open rebound valving a spring with fuck all spring rate is gonna do fuck all of a job getting the axle away from the vehicle in time for the next hit.
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Old 04-13-2018, 01:32 PM   #21 (permalink)
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I don't necessarily agree that springs just hold the vehicle up.

On long travel trucks it's hard to get it wrong, but on short travel stuff spring rate becomes extremely important.

We may have more rates than our website shows. Always best to call if you have a difficult application.
You define short travel as........?

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This is 100% rock donkey talk. The OP is having problems in the highspeed stuff.



Not enough spring and it turns into a wallowy pig in the corners. You have 2 options to try and bandaid this.

1. Cut down on the bleed and add a little rebound. This will compromise ride quality and handling in chattery stuff.

2. Really stiff sway bars. This will compromise traction exiting corners.
1. My generalized statement applies to linked coil over vehicles without prejudice to application
2. Heavy spring rates are for go fast?
3. Your peepee got really hard typing rock donkey
4. Not enough spring and it turns into a wallowy pig in the corners. You have 2 options to try and bandaid this. Refer to “Heavy springs are not the fix for shitty link geometry, compression tuning or roll control. Fix it properly.”
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Even with wide open rebound valving a spring with fuck all spring rate is gonna do fuck all of a job getting the axle away from the vehicle in time for the next hit.
Fuck/fuck+(3) = what is the point you’re trying to get across? I’ll guess, you’re saying a light spring hinders rebound? Some people believe in Bigfoot or you could share your results and experience in your quest for chassis and shock tuning.

What I read in this derail is people who have the wrong impression or image in their mind of the purpose of the shocks and what’s happening to the chassis and suspension as it cycles. The public education system is flawed. Too much Shakespeare and not enough Newton. At least when I was in. Now they teach 1+1=5 or some shit


Here’s my accused rock donkey (boing)
Race trim KOH 2018 EMC 4500 #4581 official weight 5,123lbs. 55/45 split. 1-1/4 rear sway bar, 150/200 14” springs rear with 2” preload and 200/250 front 14” and 16” springs 1” preload. Sumbitch corners like a dream on asphalt or dirt-locked front and rear. I plan to remove spring rate from the front still. Of course there’s link geometry, shock angles, shock magic, unsprung weight and other factors that make my setup work or wrong in your eyes because variables.
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Old 04-13-2018, 04:32 PM   #22 (permalink)
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“Heavy springs are not the fix for shitty link geometry, compression tuning or roll control. Fix it properly.”
Agreed, likewise giant swaybars should not be used to make up for lack of spring rate.

With a KOH rig it's always going to be a compromise, Getting it to work real well in the rocks will have you giving up speed in the fast sections. With a single shock rig it gets even worse. OP's problem.........


Rock Donkey
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Old 04-13-2018, 06:35 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Karl..... you're polishing a turd, at this point. Time for you go buggy, or, something like John's rig.
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Old 04-13-2018, 08:04 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Karl..... you're polishing a turd, at this point. Time for you go buggy, or, something like John's rig.
Yeah, but this turd works so well in the rocks. Getting it to go fast has been a challenge. If I can't do that after this iteration, I'll just leave it for trail wheeling and we-rock stuff.

Maybe a new rig after I "finish" my 1975 cherokee project.
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Old 04-15-2018, 11:05 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlVP View Post
I tend to agree with this a bit. After I re-valved the shocks and added a flutter shim, yes they did bottom out too quickly in the go fast stuff.

In my case, I think I need more lower spring and also to set the slide stop lower than where it is set. I'm using both springs for far too much of the shock travel. Setting the slide stop lower will cure some of my problems.

If the spring and slide stop don't get me where I want to be, I will add more compression valving starting with taking the flutter shim out.

Overall I have increased the rear suspension characteristics tenfold. Now I just need to dial it in to what makes me happy. I made some "large changes" with springs and shims, now I just need to get it dialed.
what valving is in the shock now? where are your crossovers set? how many bleed holes are open on the piston? ooh and PAC or ebiach are the only springs worth running, let alone spending money on.

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I don't necessarily agree that springs just hold the vehicle up.

On long travel trucks it's hard to get it wrong, but on short travel stuff spring rate becomes extremely important.
i dont disagree, but your comparing oranges and avocados. while both citrus, one goes great on tacos the other not so much.

if the OP has less than 5" of uptravel with a 14" shock, he needs to be focusing on getting some uptravel before buying springs.

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Originally Posted by bdkw1 View Post
Not enough spring and it turns into a wallowy pig in the corners. You have 2 options to try and bandaid this.

1. Cut down on the bleed and add a little rebound. This will compromise ride quality and handling in chattery stuff.

2. Really stiff sway bars. This will compromise traction exiting corners.
if you have a wallowy pig in the corners following what is laid out in the spring rate thread then you have poor suspension geometry. go look at footage or pics of bomber #1, that thing torque leaned and cornered poorly because the uppers at the chassis had little horizontal separation (running the 4spd in 2:1 all the time just made it worse). he has increased the separation and the newer ones dont torque lean and corner significantly better.

once you have good ride quality and are progressing as a driver then yes there are things you can do to fine tune or take a creative approach to address a specific issue that generally is a bandaid for poor geometry.

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Originally Posted by arse_sidewards View Post


Even with wide open rebound valving a spring with fuck all spring rate is gonna do fuck all of a job getting the axle away from the vehicle in time for the next hit.
no all shocks are the same, some are better than others and flowing fluid.
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Last edited by mobil1syn; 04-15-2018 at 11:12 AM.
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