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Old 04-15-2018, 08:32 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Exo Cage.....close or out?

I'm in the planning stages for making an exo cage for zuk tin top.

DD, hunting, mild trails, old logging roads......side flops, tree rubs, hopefully never needed for multiple rolls.

I would like to make it "removable" with TMR or similar tube clamps, if it's within my skill set.......never having made a cage before.

How much space should be, between the body and the 1.75" DOM? Seems some say close and tight to the body, others say 4" or 5" out from any body point.

Tight would *look* better, keeping the overall width narrow...out 4" would help save the body from contact in the event of a roll, but adds more overall width.

Thoughts?
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Old 04-15-2018, 09:34 AM   #2 (permalink)
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build an internal cage and make it tight
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Old 04-15-2018, 10:28 AM   #3 (permalink)
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An exp cage should be as close as possible to the sheet-metal.
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Old 04-15-2018, 11:02 AM   #4 (permalink)
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build an internal cage and make it tight
This or...
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An exp cage should be as close as possible to the sheet-metal.
This..

Or do a hybrid cage. Or do an internal with some rub rails on the outside tied to the internal cage.

4-5" spacing from the body is retarded.
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Old 04-15-2018, 11:33 AM   #5 (permalink)
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I'd say if you're gonna do 4-5 inch spacing, then you should continue your build in the ghetto fab thread.
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Old 04-15-2018, 12:04 PM   #6 (permalink)
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If you are concerned about the body then my advise to you is donít wheel.
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Old 04-16-2018, 08:59 AM   #7 (permalink)
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build an internal cage and make it tight
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An exp cage should be as close as possible to the sheet-metal.
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If you are concerned about the body then my advise to you is don’t wheel.
all of these....go a internal cage as close to the body as you can, and then if you want some body protection, do sliders, hood bar, high line steel tube fenders etc.....
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Old 04-16-2018, 09:39 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Ok, seems an internal cage is the preferred suggestion. Why internal vs exo?

I sort of gave it some thot, but with the space it takes up inside the already small interior.......

I have sliders.....never heard of a "hoot bar" before.

What do you think of this zuk cage? Was considering something like it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wO4OSSlJWdM
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Old 04-16-2018, 09:41 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Old 04-16-2018, 10:47 AM   #10 (permalink)
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because exo cages look bad and use more material, especially if they are far from the body.

if you want to remove the top, an internal cage makes it much less of a pain in the ass to go over and around instead of under and through

you won't need to compromise as much on design for safety with an internal cage while keeping functioning hood/doors/roof
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Old 04-16-2018, 11:40 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Thanks frank, I fixered my spelling....
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Old 04-16-2018, 11:43 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Some ideas here......some are executed much better than others...
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Old 04-16-2018, 11:55 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Some ideas here......some are executed much better than others...
Lil-Lucifer's exo looks clean and well made to my eyes anyway.
Something similar for my tin top would work for my requirements.

Close in tight to the body looks better, keeps the width narrow and is likely ?stronger ? considering the leverage effects on a wider cage. How much body movement side-to-side, can one expect with a zuk in a rollover event?
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Old 04-16-2018, 11:59 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Lil-Lucifer's exo looks clean and well made to my eyes anyway.
Something similar for my tin top would work for my requirements.

Close in tight to the body looks better, keeps the width narrow and is likely ?stronger ? considering the leverage effects on a wider cage. How much body movement side-to-side, can one expect with a zuk in a rollover event?
they will deflect, the less side to side stringers(like a harness bar) and a x bracing. makes a huge diff. with a full tin top, unless you go poking holes it it, you are gonna get a far amount of movement...
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Old 04-16-2018, 12:50 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Go exo, you're gonna be on quad trails, leaning on trees and shit. keep it tight, the the body to the frame at the sliders, tag the roof rails into the roof. Itll be plenty strong built out of 1.5 DOM. I had 3/4" spacers keeping my cage off the truck and the body still got caved when I rolled it.
Come out to ic18 may long at frogstompers and talk to the minime guys about their zukis, look at the designs of cages there.
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Old 04-16-2018, 12:58 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Exo cages don't protect the body, they only give you the false sense of security that it will. When you roll or lean up against a tree/rock, the exo cage is what puts the dents in the body, on behalf of that tree/rock. Not only have I never seen an exo that I liked, I've also never seen one that when tasked to protect the body, actually do it as intended.

I rolled an exocaged samurai last July and the exo failed doing tons of damage to the body. There was no way to add cross bracing to make it work like a cage should. Not only that but being external to the vehicle makes all the uninterrupted tube lengths longer adding to potential weaknesses. My cage was made out of 1 1/2" 3/16" (1.5 x .1875) wall and had an X behind me too. Was built by a professional shop, survived a bunch of crashes but in the end still not the right way to do it.



But by all means, make a jungle gym that proves me wrong.
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Old 04-17-2018, 10:12 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Tight, here's my tintop. I'm actually still planning on filling in the small gaps between the tube and body with thin plates
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Old 04-17-2018, 10:32 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Exo cages don't protect the body, they only give you the false sense of security that it will. When you roll or lean up against a tree/rock, the exo cage is what puts the dents in the body, on behalf of that tree/rock. Not only have I never seen an exo that I liked, I've also never seen one that when tasked to protect the body, actually do it as intended.

I rolled an exocaged samurai last July and the exo failed doing tons of damage to the body. There was no way to add cross bracing to make it work like a cage should. Not only that but being external to the vehicle makes all the uninterrupted tube lengths longer adding to potential weaknesses. My cage was made out of 1 1/2" 3/16" (1.5 x .1875) wall and had an X behind me too. Was built by a professional shop, survived a bunch of crashes but in the end still not the right way to do it.



But by all means, make a jungle gym that proves me wrong.
I get your point, but have to disagree. I have built quite a few exo cages and when done right, they can be decently strong. Of course they will never be as strong as a properly built internal cage. I have seen my buddies Toyota do an endo off of an 8' culvert and have very little damage. The key is x bracing, just like any cage.not always easy with an suv, but still possible.
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Old 04-17-2018, 10:56 PM   #19 (permalink)
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A cage is there to save your life, not your vehicle. That said, an exo can shrug off a lot of little impacts and scrapes that will eventually make the body look like hashed shit. But eventually, the rocks will win, either through the sheer number of hits over time or one good roll. If you go with an exo, do it right and cross brace it. Yes, you will be putting a lot of holes in the body, but if you really think that the paint on your rig is more important than your life, then you seriously need to rethink everything about your life. Built correctly, an exo can be just as strong as an internal cage, but you are going to make sacrifices to get to that point. Make sure the sacrifices are the vehicle and not you, your kids or other passengers. If you do the usual outlining of the body in tubing, you will fend off the brush but any decent impact is going to push the tubes into the body since they have no support other than where they are mounted. Just my .02
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Old 04-17-2018, 11:05 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Or do a hybrid cage. Or do an internal with some rub rails on the outside tied to the internal cage.

4-5" spacing from the body is retarded.
Iíve always likes the hybrid setups myself have a roof rack with rub rails running up by the gutters maybe an a pillar down bar to sliders and it will be clean and functional. And yeah 4-5 inches off the body would be horrid to look at.
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Old 04-17-2018, 11:26 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Tight, here's my tintop. I'm actually still planning on filling in the small gaps between the tube and body with thin plates
Youíre married with a kid, where is the for sale sign?
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Old 04-18-2018, 07:14 AM   #22 (permalink)
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People talk about an expo folding over because it's not cross braced, well if you do an internal cage and don't tie it into the body well enough the body will just fold over around the cage.

A typical race car cage doesn't do shit to support the body. Everything above the tie in plates is free to fold right over (or at least until it contacts the cage) in an impact. Sure, the cage will prevent it from folding onto you but the body will still be pretty fucked. Doors and windows won't fit a bent body. If you plan on flopping over on your side relying on more than luck to have doors and windows that seal afterward you need to to prevent the parts of the body they fit in from changing shape. That means that you need to tie the body pillars to the cage hoops.

An internal cage is going to be the best bang for your buck by a long shot. The material size and thickness you would need to get the same rigidity out of an exo is just going to be stupid. With an internal cage tied to the body the cage and body will complement each other's strength and like mentioned all your unsupported runs will be longer. Whatever you do the body will be trashed if you wheel it enough. At least with an internal cage you have a better chance of the important parts remaining square.
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Old 04-18-2018, 07:53 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Tight, here's my tintop. I'm actually still planning on filling in the small gaps between the tube and body with thin plates
While I think this is a beautiful rig, I have to ask, is the body still rubber mounted? If so, I think you will have body damage just with spirited driving. I'm not talking about hitting anything, just the flex on the mounts might cause the body to hit the Exo.

If your going to do an exo, I think you need at least an 1" or more clearence. (If the body is rubber mounted.) Of course, if the body is no longer rubber mounted, this doesn't apply.
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Old 04-18-2018, 08:15 AM   #24 (permalink)
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While I think this is a beautiful rig, I have to ask, is the body still rubber mounted? If so, I think you will have body damage just with spirited driving. I'm not talking about hitting anything, just the flex on the mounts might cause the body to hit the Exo.

If your going to do an exo, I think you need at least an 1" or more clearence. (If the body is rubber mounted.) Of course, if the body is no longer rubber mounted, this doesn't apply.
It's no longer rubber mounted.... well it is in 2 places but solid in enough other places to where it will never move. I still vote as tight as possible to the body and the body will also help the cage from racking. Just like rock sliders, if you leave a gap off of the rocker panel there eventually won't be one.
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Old 04-18-2018, 08:20 AM   #25 (permalink)
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There is some good info posted here, thanks for chiming in guys.

I'm still trying to decide what will be best for my needs, by understanding the dynamic forces exerted on a cage, exo or internal, and the interplay with the
zuk body, environment wheeling in, etc.....

I understand that;
Wheeling WILL eventually trash the body, cage or not.
Tying the body into the cage, exo or internal, will help limit body movement in a roll, and thus reduce cage / body contact.
That there are the inevitable trade-offs with any fab work....exo / internal cage included. Weight, strength, use of space, holes in body, practicality vs function, etc, all come into play.

Ok. I get it. This cage may not be built to your body-less tubed-frame crawler standards, but I still want SOME protection for the the occupants, and for the body on this tin top. Concessions will have to be made.

Just to reiterate....... this TT is a daily driver, a weekend hunting / exped rig, to be used for getting around gates, overgrown logging roads, washouts, and mild trails. This TT is not a crawler. At the end of the weekend, it needs to get my @SS to work on monday morning, hopefully with glass intact and doors that still close.

I like the sounds of an internal cage with some exo tube for tree rubs. I'll need to research more into tying the two together, along with tying the body into it all too. I don't have rear seats installed, so I can do X bracing mid section, behind the drivers / passenger seats.
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