Fox or King Internal Bypass Coil-Overs - Page 2 - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum
 
Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum  

Go Back   Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum > General Tech > General 4x4 Discussion
Notices

Reply
 
Share LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-20-2018, 09:22 AM   #26 (permalink)
Pirate4x4 Addict!
 
mobil1syn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Member # 9795
Location: riverside, ca
Posts: 16,243
Send a message via AIM to mobil1syn
Quote:
Originally Posted by DriverJC View Post
Thank you for the real world advice. I have been leaning toward Fox shocks, however, budgeting constraints have me looking at Kings as well due to the $100/shock difference in price.

Thanks again.
Joel
im willing to bet your price savings on kings will be negated once you start messing with valving, at ~$4/shim it adds up quick where as fox is ~$1.

also keep in mind the fox is a low take off reservoir from a flow path stand point which is a big deal.
__________________
We are all born Arminians. It is grace that turns us into Calvinists
-George Whitefield
mobil1syn is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-20-2018, 09:32 AM   #27 (permalink)
NERD
 
gtxracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Member # 25303
Location: PNW
Posts: 8,451
+1 for Fox, I run 2.0 coilovers all around with 2.0 bumps in front. 2.5 bypasses going into the rear. Kings are the "cool guy" shock, as I've seen it, with Fox always being the best bang for your buck. Also noticed that Fox and Radflo have very similar designs and lengths which helps when tuning and setting up shock mounts. King and Swayaway have unique features, lengths, and tuning setups which makes it a giant PIA to work on your shocks.

IBP shocks are great for packaging but I'd take a coilover and ext bypass shock over an IBP on the rear axle any day. Much better for tuning and practicality.
__________________
97 TJ Build:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

2013 Raptor SuperCrew Tow Rig
Porsche
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Fab Parts:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

PNW Shock Tuning:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
gtxracer is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Old 04-20-2018, 09:37 AM   #28 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Member # 161331
Location: Misery
Posts: 1,620
Quote:
Originally Posted by mobil1syn View Post
also keep in mind the fox is a low take off reservoir from a flow path stand point which is a big deal.
Helpful for that extra small piston.
bdkw1 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-20-2018, 10:18 AM   #29 (permalink)
Pirate4x4 Addict!
 
hurleygo3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Member # 80862
Location: Orange County
Posts: 8,994
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtxracer View Post
IBP shocks are great for packaging but I'd take a coilover and ext bypass shock over an IBP on the rear axle any day. Much better for tuning and practicality.
IBP's can be a much better setup for cars with very little sprung weight. I would also say a much better option for a trail car. Packaging is much easier, cost is much less and a much lighter setup.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Mike Johnson #43 7 time EMC KOH finisher, 6 top 5's

Last edited by hurleygo3; 04-20-2018 at 10:19 AM.
hurleygo3 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-20-2018, 10:44 AM   #30 (permalink)
GIJEEPN
 
DriverJC's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Member # 135100
Location: Mira Loma, Ca
Posts: 570
Send a message via ICQ to DriverJC Send a message via Yahoo to DriverJC
Quote:
Originally Posted by mobil1syn View Post
...also keep in mind the fox is a low take off reservoir from a flow path stand point which is a big deal.
Can you tell me what a "low take off reservoir" is or does? I've never heard that term.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gtxracer View Post
+1 for Fox, I run 2.0 coilovers all around with 2.0 bumps in front. 2.5 bypasses going into the rear. Kings are the "cool guy" shock, as I've seen it, with Fox always being the best bang for your buck. Also noticed that Fox and Radflo have very similar designs and lengths which helps when tuning and setting up shock mounts. King and Swayaway have unique features, lengths, and tuning setups which makes it a giant PIA to work on your shocks.

IBP shocks are great for packaging but I'd take a coilover and ext bypass shock over an IBP on the rear axle any day. Much better for tuning and practicality.
Running a separate Bypass shock in the rear might be something to look into once I start working the rear end. Although it would add another approximately 1200 to the cost of this build.

Thanks for all the info. I am going with Fox shocks, just not sure if I get the IBP's with DSC or just the DSC's

Joel
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
DriverJC is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-20-2018, 01:03 PM   #31 (permalink)
NERD
 
gtxracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Member # 25303
Location: PNW
Posts: 8,451
Quote:
Originally Posted by DriverJC View Post
Can you tell me what a "low take off reservoir" is or does? I've never heard that term.



Running a separate Bypass shock in the rear might be something to look into once I start working the rear end. Although it would add another approximately 1200 to the cost of this build.

Thanks for all the info. I am going with Fox shocks, just not sure if I get the IBP's with DSC or just the DSC's

Joel
There was a set of Fox 2.5 IBP with DSCs in the classifieds a few months ago, so it can be done.
__________________
97 TJ Build:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

2013 Raptor SuperCrew Tow Rig
Porsche
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Fab Parts:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

PNW Shock Tuning:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
gtxracer is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-20-2018, 01:10 PM   #32 (permalink)
Pirate4x4 Addict!
 
hurleygo3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Member # 80862
Location: Orange County
Posts: 8,994
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtxracer View Post
There was a set of Fox 2.5 IBP with DSCs in the classifieds a few months ago, so it can be done.
Every pair of FOX IBP's I've seen have had DSC on them. Including the ones I have.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Mike Johnson #43 7 time EMC KOH finisher, 6 top 5's
hurleygo3 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-20-2018, 02:33 PM   #33 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Member # 700186
Posts: 411
On the brand part. Fox and King both have great quality. I find fox to be a lot better on the support side.

If I wasn't racing I wouldn't do bypass. Its just not worth it for the money IMO. But that's just me. Cheers.
Buck Wild Racing is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-20-2018, 03:11 PM   #34 (permalink)
Pirate4x4 Addict!
 
Weasel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Member # 5639
Location: Rapid City, SD
Posts: 16,564
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buck Wild Racing View Post
On the brand part. Fox and King both have great quality. I find fox to be a lot better on the support side.

If I wasn't racing I wouldn't do bypass. Its just not worth it for the money IMO. But that's just me. Cheers.

That's my 2 cents as well.
__________________

Kindness doesn't condemn or condone

Just Add Lightness
Weasel is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-20-2018, 09:12 PM   #35 (permalink)
Pirate4x4 Addict!
 
mobil1syn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Member # 9795
Location: riverside, ca
Posts: 16,243
Send a message via AIM to mobil1syn
Quote:
Originally Posted by DriverJC View Post
Can you tell me what a "low take off reservoir" is or does? I've never heard that term.



Running a separate Bypass shock in the rear might be something to look into once I start working the rear end. Although it would add another approximately 1200 to the cost of this build.

Thanks for all the info. I am going with Fox shocks, just not sure if I get the IBP's with DSC or just the DSC's

Joel
on a regular coilover the pressure in the reservoir keeps the oil in place while the piston travels through it. what happens on a top take off reservoir is that occasionally you get the piston moving fast then the reservoir can build pressure to keep it in place so the piston push the oil into the reservoir instead of it passing through the piston. this is called cavitation. on a low take off reservoir the top cap of the shock is what is keeping the oil in place so you dont have to cavitation.

i went and checked out your build thread and props for building in the dirt, youre way more dedicated then i would ever be.
__________________
We are all born Arminians. It is grace that turns us into Calvinists
-George Whitefield
mobil1syn is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-21-2018, 09:34 AM   #36 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Member # 161331
Location: Misery
Posts: 1,620
Also, a bottom mount resi will pass more fluid through the piston than a top mount due to shaft displacement. Although it's still not enough to make up the difference in size between a 2.0 piston and a 2.5..........

Last edited by bdkw1; 04-21-2018 at 09:37 AM.
bdkw1 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-21-2018, 12:19 PM   #37 (permalink)
GIJEEPN
 
DriverJC's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Member # 135100
Location: Mira Loma, Ca
Posts: 570
Send a message via ICQ to DriverJC Send a message via Yahoo to DriverJC
Quote:
Originally Posted by mobil1syn View Post
on a regular coilover the pressure in the reservoir keeps the oil in place while the piston travels through it. what happens on a top take off reservoir is that occasionally you get the piston moving fast then the reservoir can build pressure to keep it in place so the piston push the oil into the reservoir instead of it passing through the piston. this is called cavitation. on a low take off reservoir the top cap of the shock is what is keeping the oil in place so you dont have to cavitation.

i went and checked out your build thread and props for building in the dirt, youre way more dedicated then i would ever be.
Thanks for the information and the props. I would much rather build it in the garage, but unfortunately it's full. lol...

Joel
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
DriverJC is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-21-2018, 09:30 PM   #38 (permalink)
Registered User
 
pcoplin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Member # 17986
Location: Santiam, OR
Posts: 1,677
Quote:
Originally Posted by mobil1syn View Post
im willing to bet your price savings on kings will be negated once you start messing with valving, at ~$4/shim it adds up quick where as fox is ~$1.
Fox has just raised the price to $2 a shim.
__________________
98 TJ LQ4/TH400
FullStack MotorSports
pcoplin is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-21-2018, 09:42 PM   #39 (permalink)
Pirate4x4 Addict!
 
mobil1syn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Member # 9795
Location: riverside, ca
Posts: 16,243
Send a message via AIM to mobil1syn
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcoplin View Post
Fox has just raised the price to $2 a shim.
steel has gone up quite a bit since the beginning if the year. expect everything offroad related to be on the rise
__________________
We are all born Arminians. It is grace that turns us into Calvinists
-George Whitefield
mobil1syn is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-21-2018, 10:10 PM   #40 (permalink)
GIJEEPN
 
DriverJC's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Member # 135100
Location: Mira Loma, Ca
Posts: 570
Send a message via ICQ to DriverJC Send a message via Yahoo to DriverJC
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcoplin View Post
Fox has just raised the price to $2 a shim.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mobil1syn View Post
steel has gone up quite a bit since the beginning if the year. expect everything offroad related to be on the rise
And king is raising their prices as of the end of the month.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
DriverJC is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-22-2018, 10:19 AM   #41 (permalink)
GIJEEPN
 
DriverJC's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Member # 135100
Location: Mira Loma, Ca
Posts: 570
Send a message via ICQ to DriverJC Send a message via Yahoo to DriverJC
To All,

Thanks for the advice and information you all have given me. I'm going to be going with the Fox Factory Series 2.5" x 16" travel Coil-Overs w/ Remote Reservoir and DSC.

Thanks again.
Joel
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by DriverJC; 04-22-2018 at 10:21 AM.
DriverJC is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-22-2018, 12:38 PM   #42 (permalink)
Pirate4x4 Addict!
 
mobil1syn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Member # 9795
Location: riverside, ca
Posts: 16,243
Send a message via AIM to mobil1syn
Quote:
Originally Posted by DriverJC View Post
To All,

Thanks for the advice and information you all have given me. I'm going to be going with the Fox Factory Series 2.5" x 16" travel Coil-Overs w/ Remote Reservoir and DSC.

Thanks again.
Joel
id suggest a 14”. with your sprung to unsprung weight you may run into soring rate problems, plus 16” make an axle swing a lot during articulation. quality over quantity
__________________
We are all born Arminians. It is grace that turns us into Calvinists
-George Whitefield
mobil1syn is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-22-2018, 12:43 PM   #43 (permalink)
NERD
 
gtxracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Member # 25303
Location: PNW
Posts: 8,451
Quote:
Originally Posted by mobil1syn View Post
id suggest a 14”. with your sprung to unsprung weight you may run into soring rate problems, plus 16” make an axle swing a lot during articulation. quality over quantity
X2 or go with trailing arms
__________________
97 TJ Build:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

2013 Raptor SuperCrew Tow Rig
Porsche
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Fab Parts:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

PNW Shock Tuning:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
gtxracer is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-22-2018, 01:25 PM   #44 (permalink)
GIJEEPN
 
DriverJC's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Member # 135100
Location: Mira Loma, Ca
Posts: 570
Send a message via ICQ to DriverJC Send a message via Yahoo to DriverJC
Quote:
Originally Posted by mobil1syn View Post
id suggest a 14”. with your sprung to unsprung weight you may run into soring rate problems, plus 16” make an axle swing a lot during articulation. quality over quantity


That’s another term I haven’t heard yet. Can you explain what Soring Rate Problems are?




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
DriverJC is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-22-2018, 01:28 PM   #45 (permalink)
Pirate4x4 Addict!
 
mobil1syn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Member # 9795
Location: riverside, ca
Posts: 16,243
Send a message via AIM to mobil1syn
Quote:
Originally Posted by DriverJC View Post
That’s another term I haven’t heard yet. Can you explain what Soring Rate Problems are?




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
soring is fat fingers and lack of proof reading. soring was supposed to be spring.
__________________
We are all born Arminians. It is grace that turns us into Calvinists
-George Whitefield
mobil1syn is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-22-2018, 01:52 PM   #46 (permalink)
GIJEEPN
 
DriverJC's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Member # 135100
Location: Mira Loma, Ca
Posts: 570
Send a message via ICQ to DriverJC Send a message via Yahoo to DriverJC
Quote:
Originally Posted by mobil1syn View Post
soring is fat fingers and lack of proof reading. soring was supposed to be spring.
No problem. I kind of figured when I googled it and nothing came up but interest rate stuff. lol...

However, can you elaborate on the Spring Rate Problems I might face?
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
DriverJC is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-22-2018, 02:12 PM   #47 (permalink)
Pirate4x4 Addict!
 
mobil1syn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Member # 9795
Location: riverside, ca
Posts: 16,243
Send a message via AIM to mobil1syn
for a 16” shock youll need a 18” lower spring and a 16” upper. my hunch is that you been in the 150/250 range on springs for a 14” shock in the front and 100/125 in the rear. going to a 16” shock makes the rates drop and finding a 18x150 or 100 in the rear difficult and the springs will bow eating shocks.

if you havent read the spring thread started by zukizzy go give it a read.
__________________
We are all born Arminians. It is grace that turns us into Calvinists
-George Whitefield
mobil1syn is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-22-2018, 03:00 PM   #48 (permalink)
GIJEEPN
 
DriverJC's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Member # 135100
Location: Mira Loma, Ca
Posts: 570
Send a message via ICQ to DriverJC Send a message via Yahoo to DriverJC
Quote:
Originally Posted by mobil1syn View Post
for a 16” shock youll need a 18” lower spring and a 16” upper. my hunch is that you been in the 150/250 range on springs for a 14” shock in the front and 100/125 in the rear. going to a 16” shock makes the rates drop and finding a 18x150 or 100 in the rear difficult and the springs will bow eating shocks.

if you havent read the spring thread started by zukizzy go give it a read.
I weighed the Jeep prior to starting this build and came up with an unsprung weight distribution of 51% front and 49% Rear the weights were (without me in it )

RF: 820.5
LF: 838.5

RR: 848.5
LR: 754.5

I used the average to calculate the spring rate I would need for the 16" shocks and it looks like for the fronts and rear I get 16" 125/ 18" 200 ( 3" Preload, 7" of shaft showing and an installation angle of 20* ).

Unless I did something very wrong on my math, which is completely possible for my Public School Education. lol

Thanks for the advice, I haven't ordered anything yet and won't until most likely next month.

Joel
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
DriverJC is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-23-2018, 09:41 PM   #49 (permalink)
Pirate4x4 Addict!
 
mobil1syn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Member # 9795
Location: riverside, ca
Posts: 16,243
Send a message via AIM to mobil1syn
you should only have 1" of preload in the front and 2" in the rear. you are better off not ordering springs until the thing is assembled and you can back calculate actual information.

read this
https://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/gener...ch-thread.html
__________________
We are all born Arminians. It is grace that turns us into Calvinists
-George Whitefield
mobil1syn is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-24-2018, 05:03 AM   #50 (permalink)
GIJEEPN
 
DriverJC's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Member # 135100
Location: Mira Loma, Ca
Posts: 570
Send a message via ICQ to DriverJC Send a message via Yahoo to DriverJC
Quote:
Originally Posted by mobil1syn View Post
you should only have 1" of preload in the front and 2" in the rear. you are better off not ordering springs until the thing is assembled and you can back calculate actual information.

read this
https://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/gener...ch-thread.html
When I first read that thread ( a couple weeks ago ) I calculated the spring rate based on the information in that thread including ZukIzzy's stated 2-3" ( I used 3" ) of preload.

However, the more I think about the set up of these things the more I think you might be right about going down to 1" of preload, as it will give me room to adjust for extra parts, gear, etc...

I'm not set on the 16" shocks, however, I am attempting to build it to utilize them.

Thanks for the advice this is definitely a learning experience.
Joel

Hopefully, I will be purchasing the Shocks next month so I have time to think about things.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
DriverJC is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

** A VERIFICATION EMAIL IS SENT TO THIS ADDRESS TO COMPLETE REGISTRATION!! **

Email Address:
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:14 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.