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Old 08-08-2018, 07:46 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Scary handling after front axle swap

Asking for a friend.

05 TJ Rubi
4.0 with a turbo
8.8 rear, 4 link with c/o's
Trailgear 9" front with coils and factory frame mounts and style link setup.
6-7* caster - return to center is good
Alignment has been done

Drove fine with the d44 up front. Built a trail gear 9" for the front that came pre welded up with mounts for a TJ and still using the factory frame side mounts. All new johnny joints in the links and joints are tight.

100lb springs up front with about 3-4" uptravel and this thing is scary to drive on the street. A tiny bit of throttle and it pulls hard to the left, grab the brakes and it pulls right. You can steer this thing with the gas and brake.

I'm 1000 miles away from it so pulling reliable numbers is tricky at best for the link calculator but it's basically a bolt in replacement axle.

WTF could be causing this? 4 local buddies have taken a look and all are left scratching their heads.

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Old 08-08-2018, 08:32 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Mine did that when the rear suspension was loose. When I had the stock short arms one of the upper rear arms came off of the frame. It would change direction with throttle or brake. Check everything.
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Old 08-08-2018, 10:03 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Dumb question.... is the track bar and drag link on the same (or Close to the same) plane and close to the same length?
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Old 08-08-2018, 10:06 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Pics would be great.
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Old 08-08-2018, 10:09 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Get a 4 wheel alignment.

I suspect the rear housing is slightly tweaked (towed in).
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Old 08-08-2018, 11:06 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Dumb question.... is the track bar and drag link on the same (or Close to the same) plane and close to the same length?
track bar and drag link are parallel and almost flat.

I'm having him send pics when he gets home from work
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Old 08-08-2018, 05:32 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Sounds like the trackbar is flat and the draglink has some angle to it.
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Old 08-08-2018, 06:27 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Or a broke axle shaft.

Does it have locking hubs? Is one locked with a spool or locker?

8.8 gtg? Is it new also? New shafts for matching wheel pattern? Posi/locker/spool?
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Old 08-08-2018, 06:33 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Sounds like the trackbar is flat and the draglink has some angle to it.
trackbar and drag link are in the same plane and almost flat.

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Originally Posted by total newb View Post
Or a broke axle shaft.

Does it have locking hubs? Is one locked with a spool or locker?

8.8 gtg? Is it new also? New shafts for matching wheel pattern? Posi/locker/spool?
Yes to locking hubs, both unlocked. Wheeled in Harlan this weekend with ARB's front and rear, no broken shafts.

8.8 is existing, it wasn't touched in the front axle swap. Wheels and tires are also a new addition. 30lbs in the tires for air. Raceline wheels.

I'm still waiting on pics and he's going to check to make sure the upper link mounts frame side are still in good shape after it's Moab trip for EJS.
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Old 08-08-2018, 06:36 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Here's one more pic that's probably not helpful but pictures are always more fun that words.




Last edited by bbaxter51; 08-08-2018 at 06:44 PM. Reason: more pics
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Old 08-08-2018, 09:08 PM   #11 (permalink)
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My BIL heep had a stripped adjustable control arm in the rear (lower rear driver)!!!!
It did exactly what your saying.
Thoroughly check control arms!!!



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Old 08-09-2018, 08:50 AM   #12 (permalink)
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From the photos it appears you are running high steer vs Y link before?(standard tj steering) Even though you are running the track bar and the drag link parallel the track bar is substantially shorter and that can create bump steer. Couple that with 100lb coils and factory located control arm mounts you are likely getting very low AS umbers which transfer weight shifts to the coils. So when you accelerate your front coils unload and the track bar pulls in a tighter arc then the drag link and shifts the axle to the driver side or the body moves to the passenger side. When you brake the opposite happens, weight shifts from the rear to the front coils the rear raises up and the front coils compress. This is a fundamental problem when installing a high steer kit on a TJ using traditional coils. Its a trade off between bump steer due to unequal lengths of the drag link and track bar or you use the standard steering Y link and live with the low roll center.

Things that can help would be to go to a higher coil rate which won't compress so much under load, relocate the frame side control arm mounts, or move to front coil overs, air shocks, or ORI struts that allows you to relocate the drag link mount on the axle as close to the inner C as you can so you can fit a longer drag link in there.

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Old 08-09-2018, 08:56 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Yup looks like the track bar and steering link is too short for all that travel.
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Old 08-09-2018, 11:45 AM   #14 (permalink)
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From the photos it appears you are running high steer vs Y link before?(standard tj steering) Even though you are running the track bar and the drag link parallel the track bar is substantially shorter and that can create bump steer. Couple that with 100lb coils and factory located control arm mounts you are likely getting very low AS umbers which transfer weight shifts to the coils. So when you accelerate your front coils unload and the track bar pulls in a tighter arc then the drag link and shifts the axle to the driver side or the body moves to the passenger side. When you brake the opposite happens, weight shifts from the rear to the front coils the rear raises up and the front coils compress. This is a fundamental problem when installing a high steer kit on a TJ using traditional coils. Its a trade off between bump steer due to unequal lengths of the drag link and track bar or you use the standard steering Y link and live with the low roll center.

Things that can help would be to go to a higher coil rate which won't compress so much under load, relocate the frame side control arm mounts, or move to front coil overs, air shocks, or ORI struts that allows you to relocate the drag link mount on the axle as close to the inner C as you can so you can fit a longer drag link in there.
Could you fix this by relocating the trac bar mount to someplace that allows equal length?
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Old 08-09-2018, 12:19 PM   #15 (permalink)
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You will not get equal length unless you push the frame side out towards the tire and move the axle side as far as you can towards the inner c. The problem is that conventional coils interfere with moving the axle side towards the inner c and you also get conflict with the sway bar links. You can get them closer to the same length but unlikely to get them exactly the same length.

Last edited by thedirtman; 08-09-2018 at 12:20 PM.
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Old 08-09-2018, 03:36 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Check to make sure you didn't rotate your front pinion up too much. If you point your pinion UP toward the case, you will throw the castor out of whack.
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Old 08-10-2018, 06:59 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Old 08-10-2018, 07:08 AM   #18 (permalink)
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From the photos it appears you are running high steer vs Y link before?(standard tj steering) Even though you are running the track bar and the drag link parallel the track bar is substantially shorter and that can create bump steer. Couple that with 100lb coils and factory located control arm mounts you are likely getting very low AS umbers which transfer weight shifts to the coils. So when you accelerate your front coils unload and the track bar pulls in a tighter arc then the drag link and shifts the axle to the driver side or the body moves to the passenger side. When you brake the opposite happens, weight shifts from the rear to the front coils the rear raises up and the front coils compress. This is a fundamental problem when installing a high steer kit on a TJ using traditional coils. Its a trade off between bump steer due to unequal lengths of the drag link and track bar or you use the standard steering Y link and live with the low roll center.

Things that can help would be to go to a higher coil rate which won't compress so much under load, relocate the frame side control arm mounts, or move to front coil overs, air shocks, or ORI struts that allows you to relocate the drag link mount on the axle as close to the inner C as you can so you can fit a longer drag link in there.

I like this theory, since all joints and links are tight and nothing stripped or broken.
Yes, went from Y link to high steer. It only takes maybe 200rpm throttle increase to make it pull to the left. The track bar isn't that short, but he's going to pull the springs and cycle the front suspension to see how much it steers through the suspension cycle. The rear AS numbers are pretty high I'm guessing since it lifts its ass like a shaft driven motorcycle when on the gas. Front, I'm not sure.
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Old 08-10-2018, 07:44 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Strange the rear raises up under acceleration. Must be some strange geometry there. Parallel links or non coverging links? A high AS would transfer the weight into the chassis thru the links not the coils. Does your front suspension rain up as well? IF you are getting both the front and rear raising up your axles are going to be shifting in opposite directions creating some dynamic steering issues.

Last edited by thedirtman; 08-10-2018 at 09:16 AM.
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Old 08-10-2018, 09:15 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Am I seeing things or are the drag link and panhard slanted in two different directions?
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Old 08-10-2018, 09:37 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Am I seeing things or are the drag link and panhard slanted in two different directions?
Panhard is bent to clear the center of the 9" giving that illusion but the datum line is parallel to the drag link in the same plane.
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Old 08-10-2018, 09:42 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Am I seeing things or are the drag link and panhard slanted in two different directions?
I think you are looking at the tire rod. The drag link is in the top left and very poorly lit. Very hard to see.
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Old 08-10-2018, 03:57 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Measure from the ground. Trackbar ends compared to draglink ends. On the steering box side the drag link pivot is higher than the track bar pivot. On the passenger side the drag link pivot is lower than the track bar pivot. That means what i said in my first post is true. Donít say close enough, cause I can see the problem without the pictures.
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Old 08-10-2018, 04:06 PM   #24 (permalink)
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if the links are different lengths measuring from the ground really does not do anything as far as verifying if the links are parallel unless you are ready to do some trig. Run a string from bolt to bolt on both links and it will show you if they are parallel. I would say the angle of the photo is making it look worse then it really is, along with the bend in the track bar.
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Old 08-10-2018, 05:12 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Running a string wonít tell you where the track bar mount on the passenger side should be. Measuring will.
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