Correct order ? - Page 2 - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum
 
Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum  

Go Back   Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum > General Tech > General 4x4 Discussion
Notices

Reply
 
Share LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-25-2019, 07:25 PM   #26 (permalink)
Atomic Test Lab Rat
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Member # 25325
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 3,663
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mac View Post
I we follow your logic, then 90% of the guys the run KOH, as well as the companies that build 9" & 10" Axle's are just dumb, because the 9" & 10" use and support that design for the EXACT same reasons you stated (The pinion bearings are too close) but the design has other bennifits.
That design that you seem to despise has been tried and true since the 1940s and continues to be used to this very day for good reason.

Answer me this... If the ONLY reason they used that design was because the pinion bearing are too close, then why didn't they fix it early on? Why would GM continue to use that design for 44 years with minimal changes? Why did they continue to use it until 2015 when they had the 11.5" at their disposal starting in 2001?

If I had 5 bucks for every time I've herd "The D80 & 11&UP 10.5 Ford has a 37 spline pinion" I could get two low end Hookers and a Ziploc baggie full of coke for 45 minutes.

Fact is, for 99% of the off road world sheered pinion shafts are a non-issue. On top of that the fact that ground clearance (Even shaved) is worse on the 10.5" Ford than a shaved GM 14 or even a D80 and there is SHIT aftermarket support for the Ford axle.

Saying "the pinion would wobble around and eat itself against the ring gear w/o that little support bearing on the end" is the equivalent to saying "The crank shaft on an LS motor would just wobble and eat itself w/o a bearing on both ends" ...... NO SHIT!! But there is.... so it doesn't

I'll add that I'm a fan of the D80 and the 11.5, but people think D80's are worth their weight in gold and the 11.5 is such a boat anchor that I feel like the 10.5" 14 bolt is still towards the top when all things are considered.

You may think that Engineers get to decide how to "build" things, you would be wrong in most cases. They are given a set of constraints, Size, weight ect and have to design to fit the constraints. The 9" has a high hypoid gear distance which increases strength but it wasn't designed that way for strength. It was designed for driveshaft clearance on cars. the removable pinion drove them down the path of the bearing spacing. Lots or different reasons why different parts and assemblies are designed the way they are.

Very rarely are they designed to be "stronger" then required to be. Lots of design type choices are also made because the last time they did the design that's how it was done. Guess who the boss of a lot of the current engineers who designed the axle probably was? The guy who was on the original design team. We see that a lot in our engineering depts at my company. It can also be cheaper to stick with a similar design as well as most of the "engineering" is done already and can just be modified to fit the new design.

Cliffs of my rambling is designs aren't always they way they are because they are the "best", more likely they are that way do to cost, schedule and it will meet the design constraints.
__________________
IDI F250 Crawler
redranger4.0 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-26-2019, 06:53 AM   #27 (permalink)
mj
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Member # 1919
Location: BC Canada
Posts: 9,280
Sorry Man, no disrespect intended
but if the too close pinion bearings with a pinion support bearing is so awesome why did every manufacturer abandon the idea when they designed newer bigger axle to survive modern overpowered turbo diesel trucks?
did they just forget?
mj is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Old 01-26-2019, 07:39 AM   #28 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Member # 69633
Location: I live in my body: On the land near Paradise Township, Jefferson State, not by choice.
Posts: 2,132
OK so the top 3 or 4 in strength strong as in put power to it and it won't snap or weight carrying strength ?

I'm looking for a mix of both but weight is my major concern.

Anyone have data on the above axles on what kind of loads they will carry ?

I can find D70 Dually hubs and swap them to a 14 bolt and or did the 14 bolt come in a dually configuration?

TIA
__________________
ARM yourself because no-one else here will save you!
The odds will betray you.

Last edited by ParadiseAutoElectric; 01-26-2019 at 07:40 AM.
ParadiseAutoElectric is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-26-2019, 08:38 AM   #29 (permalink)
Rock God
 
scottapher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Member # 126355
Location: tx
Posts: 1,900
Quote:
Originally Posted by ParadiseAutoElectric View Post
did the 14 bolt come in a dually configuration?

TIA
Cmon now
Attached Images
 
__________________

Bent Fabrications Evo 2 Coupe
IG: @RxOffroad
scottapher is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-26-2019, 09:19 AM   #30 (permalink)
Zeus of the Sluice
 
arse_sidewards's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Member # 256962
Location: People's Republic of Taxachusetts
Posts: 3,769
Quote:
Originally Posted by ParadiseAutoElectric View Post
OK so the top 3 or 4 in strength strong as in put power to it and it won't snap or weight carrying strength ?

I'm looking for a mix of both but weight is my major concern.
With regard to load carrying at the hubs the 10.25 the Ford F-superduty D80 and everything else that used a bigger spindle than the traditional D60/70/Dodge hybrid 80/14b is gong to be your winner.

For load carrying strength in the middle;e the best axle is whichever one you add a truss to.

If you're looking to tow all that weight up a mountain fast then you want the gears with the most contact area and the biggest most widely spaced bearings holding them up. This is going to mean D80/11.5/S110, etc, etc. Unless you're doing hot-shot towing and putting on a fuckton of miles with a lot of power going through the axle the center isn't really a concern. Think of all the overloaded E-350s that go 20+yr with D60.

Whatever your application is I'm sure a trussed D70/14b/10.25/10.5 would probably hold up just fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by redranger4.0 View Post
You may think that Engineers get to decide how to "build" things, you would be wrong in most cases. They are given a set of constraints, Size, weight ect and have to design to fit the constraints... blah blah blah
These assumptions are mostly true but they tend to break down quite a bit over half a fucking century laughing:

I'm no 14b fanboy but nobody there is keeping it the way it is because they don't want to offend the guy who designed it with a slide rule. He's long gone. The only thing keeping it the way it is is inertia but you can already see that starting to wear off in the later iterations.

Realistically I think that they wanted the ultra-short pinion because the overall assembly was still cheaper than the HO series it was replacing and the removable support has some benefits.

Last edited by arse_sidewards; 01-26-2019 at 09:29 AM.
arse_sidewards is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-26-2019, 11:27 AM   #31 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Member # 166616
Location: Apple Valley, Ca
Posts: 574
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mac View Post
Axletech
Space because Axletech's are that much more stronger ::
Rockwells
GM 10.5" 14bolt (Third pinion bearing makes this axle killer)
Dana 80
GM 11.5" (Has axle tube issues that put it below the 10.5" IMO.
Ford 10.25/10.5
Dana 70
Dana 60
GM 9.5" 14bolt
Ford 9"
Nissan 233B
Toyota 8"
Ford 8.8"
JK Dana 44 (Bigger Bearings & Gear set then old D44)
GM 12 Bolt
GM 8.5" (10 Bolt) Has Larger Bearings, Larger Pinion & Gear Contact pattern then a D44
Dana 44
H/P Dana 30
Dana30/golfkart
Dana 35
I know they aren't as popular as they use to be but where do mogs fit into this?
Justdhutch is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-27-2019, 07:20 PM   #32 (permalink)
Atomic Test Lab Rat
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Member # 25325
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 3,663
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justdhutch View Post
I know they aren't as popular as they use to be but where do mogs fit into this?
Depends on the Series Mogs. 404s, 406, 416, U1300?
__________________
IDI F250 Crawler
redranger4.0 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-27-2019, 08:34 PM   #33 (permalink)
Pirate4x4 Addict!
 
2big bronco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Member # 66684
Location: Santa cruz ca 95007
Posts: 14,127
Blog Entries: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justdhutch View Post
I know they aren't as popular as they use to be but where do mogs fit into this?
404s somewhere above 44 and below 9"
__________________
Quote:
89 and carbed with a 4 speed. That's like saying the hooker was great, but she had a penis and herpes.
Wait, you Toyota fags are into that.
2big bronco is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-30-2019, 08:31 AM   #34 (permalink)
Rock God
 
The Mac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Member # 21507
Location: Kent Wa
Posts: 1,314
Quote:
Originally Posted by mj View Post
Sorry Man, no disrespect intended
but if the too close pinion bearings with a pinion support bearing is so awesome why did every manufacturer abandon the idea when they designed newer bigger axle to survive modern overpowered turbo diesel trucks?
did they just forget?

Cost.... Much cheaper to build an 2 pinion bearing axle then a 3 bearing.

And the design is still in use today in many HD truck applications.
__________________
Mac
The Mac is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-30-2019, 06:00 PM   #35 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Member # 94747
Location: Fruita colorado
Posts: 3,806
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valley Rock View Post
80
10.5
14b
70
60
9
8.8

None of the rest are even worth mentioning unless you are speaking of the newer bigger ring gear 44's which the early ones had notoriously week tubes, possibly still do .

And the 10.5 Sterling has been using a big ass 37 spline pinion for close to the last 10 years, which is the same spline count as an 80, so the whole chart is kind of out to lunch anyway and subjective as pointed out previous .


If I had 5 bucks for every time I've heard someone say how awesome the 14 bolt is because it has a 3rd pinion bearing, I could get two high end Hookers and a shoe box full of coke for the weekend .

The reason the 14 bolt has a tiny little bearing on the nub sticking out from the face of the pinion is because the stubby little 14 bolt pinion cannot survive w/o it, it is too short, the two main pinion bearings are too close together to offer proper support on their own, and the pinion would wobble around and eat itself against the ring gear w/o that little support bearing on the end, it isn't awesome, it is simply an absolute necessity to keep that design alive .




In before K5 Jack comes in to say how the 14 bolts are all hand carved by Jesus himself with his Dad looking over his shoulder doing quality control .
YES!

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mac View Post
there is SHIT aftermarket support for the Ford axle.
bull shit, find me one thing you can get for a 14B that you CAN NOT get for the 10.5 (other than an upgraded 3rd pinion bearing
__________________
[COLOR="Red"]MUDDNUTT racing #4531[/COLOR],[COLOR="Cyan"] Falken Tire[/COLOR], [COLOR="Yellow"]ADS[/COLOR], Jimmys4x4,[COLOR="Red"] RuffStuff Specialties[/COLOR], [COLOR="DarkOrange"]ARB usa[/COLOR], [COLOR="Wheat"]Savvy offroad[/COLOR], [COLOR="Silver"]Raceline wheels[/COLOR], John Rants
jr4x is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-30-2019, 06:47 PM   #36 (permalink)
Registered User
 
YotaAtieToo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Member # 25632
Location: Magalia, Jefferson State
Posts: 12,107
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2big bronco View Post
404s somewhere above 44 and below 9"
Have you ever had your hands on 404s? They are actually pretty beefy. Some compare stock ones to mildly built 1 tons. That being said, I hate the design of them, but they aren't exactly weak.
YotaAtieToo is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-30-2019, 07:07 PM   #37 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Member # 56430
Location: Kitsap County, Washington
Posts: 1,441
Quote:
Originally Posted by YotaAtieToo View Post
Have you ever had your hands on 404s? They are actually pretty beefy. Some compare stock ones to mildly built 1 tons. That being said, I hate the design of them, but they aren't exactly weak.
Agree.
Mogs 404 are far stronger than a OEM 14 bolt. They have their weaknesses, such as drum brakes, weird bolt pattern, torque tubes, really heavy, and whatnot, but, the inner axles are strong enough to handle giant (and heavy) tires due to the gear reduction at the axle ends, and the outer axles (after the gear reduction) are plenty beef. Great ground clearance is nice added touch. But they're certainly not for most folks.
__________________
:Your Signature: cannot include the words; Your, Signature.
Treeclimber is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-31-2019, 12:54 AM   #38 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Member # 267321
Posts: 100
[/QUOTE]

bull shit, find me one thing you can get for a 14B that you CAN NOT get for the 10.5 (other than an upgraded 3rd pinion bearing[/QUOTE]

40 spline lockers, actual 10.5" gears above 4.88 and off the shelf shafts.
wellstig1 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-31-2019, 07:51 AM   #39 (permalink)
Rock God
 
The Mac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Member # 21507
Location: Kent Wa
Posts: 1,314
Quote:
Originally Posted by jr4x View Post
bull shit, find me one thing you can get for a 14B that you CAN NOT get for the 10.5 (other than an upgraded 3rd pinion bearing
Off the shelf chrom-moly axles....

We are talking about the 37 spline pinion version... So 5.13 or 5.38 gears..

40 Spline parts

A spool

There is 3 for ya, right off the top of my head...
__________________
Mac
The Mac is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-31-2019, 08:18 AM   #40 (permalink)
mj
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Member # 1919
Location: BC Canada
Posts: 9,280
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mac View Post
Off the shelf chrom-moly axles....

We are talking about the 37 spline pinion version... So 5.13 or 5.38 gears..

40 Spline parts

A spool

There is 3 for ya, right off the top of my head...
chromo would be nice and the only thing on your list that I would care about, 4.88s are close enough, 40 spline is all custom shit anyway so what prevents someone from 40 splining a 10.5? a spool looks simple enough to machine (and you could spline it for dana shafts) but why
mj is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-31-2019, 08:25 AM   #41 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Member # 168243
Location: College Station, TX
Posts: 11,336
Quote:
Originally Posted by redranger4.0 View Post

Cliffs of my rambling is designs aren't always they way they are because they are the "best", more likely they are that way do to cost, schedule and it will meet the design constraints.
I think a big thing people are forgetting here is that GM isn't known as the pinnacle of innovative design and forward thinking in the automotive industry, at all. It often works out well for us wheelers, but most everything they have done is a decade or more behind other OEMs. They do it because it's cheaper and easier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arse_sidewards View Post
With regard to load carrying at the hubs the 10.25 the Ford F-superduty D80 and everything else that used a bigger spindle than the traditional D60/70/Dodge hybrid 80/14b is gong to be your winner.

For load carrying strength in the middle;e the best axle is whichever one you add a truss to.

If you're looking to tow all that weight up a mountain fast then you want the gears with the most contact area and the biggest most widely spaced bearings holding them up. This is going to mean D80/11.5/S110, etc, etc. Unless you're doing hot-shot towing and putting on a fuckton of miles with a lot of power going through the axle the center isn't really a concern. Think of all the overloaded E-350s that go 20+yr with D60.

Whatever your application is I'm sure a trussed D70/14b/10.25/10.5 would probably hold up just fine.



These assumptions are mostly true but they tend to break down quite a bit over half a fucking century laughing:

I'm no 14b fanboy but nobody there is keeping it the way it is because they don't want to offend the guy who designed it with a slide rule. He's long gone. The only thing keeping it the way it is is inertia but you can already see that starting to wear off in the later iterations.

Realistically I think that they wanted the ultra-short pinion because the overall assembly was still cheaper than the HO series it was replacing and the removable support has some benefits.
I'd agree with this.

I'll add though the reason I won't touch a D70 over the other two unless it's free is the older metallurgy and design coupled with the hardest set up process. I don't want to use a case spreader and I hate that the shims are under the carrier bearings. The Ford axle sets up like a big ass 8.8. It has them on the outside. It's a time saver. Except without C clips, it saves even more time over an 8.8, which is already easy enough.



Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mac View Post
Off the shelf chrom-moly axles....

We are talking about the 37 spline pinion version... So 5.13 or 5.38 gears..

40 Spline parts

A spool

There is 3 for ya, right off the top of my head...


The GM fans are quick to jump me on this, but how often do the damn things break under duress in pulling trucks, etc?

There's several articles out there talking about the quality of the axle shafts being on the high end of the spectrum. Argue all you want but it's pretty easy to look at the actual use of them and decide that they aren't needed, and they're not based on 50 year old metallurgy and design processes. Visteon is known for good shit.

Sure, they're not used as much in wheelers. It's due to a lot of "14 bolt is the absolute best" mantra being repeated over the last 20 years, the same way it has been for GM parts for years and years despite it not being gospel truth.

*Not hating on 14 bolts. They are a good axle. I just also think they are overrated and the new brand Y and Z stuff is comparable, if not a tad better. Not everyone wants to cut and clearance one. Sometimes a 10.5" is the easier to find option, and cheaper to boot. Selectable lockers are just as expensive for either one. The extra bearing support isn't a commonly utilized design anymore because it's flat out unnecessary if you design it correctly. 10.5s don't take hours extra to build like people are insisting.

I'd put them in the same category personally. I like the 10.5 because it's a very well machined axle and strong as hell in factory form. You don't need to upgrade them for most uses. For flat out cheap wheeling, weld up a 10.25/10.5 and go. They are working fine with big rubber and a lot of power for a lot of guys right here on this forum and gajillion lb ft diesel brodozers everywhere.
__________________
-Dave

Quote:
By the way, Irregardless does pass spell check and it is a word. The meaning is exactly the same, you just want to play games

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


For the best deal on 8 lug disc brakes click here-->
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by Dr.Danger; 01-31-2019 at 08:29 AM.
Dr.Danger is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-31-2019, 08:27 AM   #42 (permalink)
Pirate4x4 Addict!
 
K5runner@hotmail.com's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Member # 96153
Location: Sun Valley, Ca
Posts: 7,242
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valley Rock View Post


In before K5 Jack comes in to say how the 14 bolts are all hand carved by Jesus himself with his Dad looking over his shoulder doing quality control .

But I do feel honored........

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mac View Post
Off the shelf chrom-moly axles....

We are talking about the 37 spline pinion version... So 5.13 or 5.38 gears..

40 Spline parts

A spool

There is 3 for ya, right off the top of my head...
I also have a 40 spline 14b ARB sitting here if anybody needs it...

Strongest to weakest

Axletech
Rockwells
Aftermarket 10"/9" = Aftermarket 14b
GM 10.5" 14bolt = Dana 80 = GM 11.5"
Ford 10.25/10.5 = Dana 70
Dana 60
GM 9.5" 14bolt
Ford 9"
Bla Bla Bla

And another To Valley Rock
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.




Offroad Design ♦ Atomic MC ♦ Jantz Engineering
K5runner@hotmail.com is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-31-2019, 08:30 AM   #43 (permalink)
Rock God
 
The Mac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Member # 21507
Location: Kent Wa
Posts: 1,314
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Strongest to weakest

Axletech
Rockwells
Aftermarket 10"/9" = Aftermarket 14b
GM 10.5" 14bolt = Dana 80 = GM 11.5"
Ford 10.25/10.5 = Dana 70
Dana 60
GM 9.5" 14bolt
Ford 9"
Bla Bla Bla
That's a solid way to look at it.. I agree
__________________
Mac
The Mac is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-31-2019, 08:31 AM   #44 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Member # 168243
Location: College Station, TX
Posts: 11,336
Quote:
Originally Posted by mj View Post
chromo would be nice and the only thing on your list that I would care about, 4.88s are close enough, 40 spline is all custom shit anyway so what prevents someone from 40 splining a 10.5? a spool looks simple enough to machine (and you could spline it for dana shafts) but why
Nobody does a spool because they own a welder. Nobody goes with 40 spline because they haven't broken the 37.
__________________
-Dave

Quote:
By the way, Irregardless does pass spell check and it is a word. The meaning is exactly the same, you just want to play games

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


For the best deal on 8 lug disc brakes click here-->
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Dr.Danger is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-31-2019, 08:55 AM   #45 (permalink)
Rock God
 
The Mac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Member # 21507
Location: Kent Wa
Posts: 1,314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Danger View Post
Nobody does a spool because they own a welder. Nobody goes with 40 spline because they haven't broken the 37.
They have 35 spline axles not 37

If the reason they dont make a spool is because you have a welder then why do they make spools for 14 Bolt, D44, D60, 9", Toy 8" and such? Does your welder not work on those?
__________________
Mac
The Mac is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-31-2019, 09:01 AM   #46 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Member # 168243
Location: College Station, TX
Posts: 11,336
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mac View Post
They have 35 spline axles not 37

If the reason they dont make a spool is because you have a welder then why do they make spools for 14 Bolt, D44, D60, 9", Toy 8" and such? Does your welder not work on those?
Google "37 spline 10.5". Go ahead.

I have never purchased a spool for anything, but you're missing that the carriers themselves are not strong enough on those little axles. A Sterling carrier is beefy as hell and isn't what's going to break.

That doesn't explain why they make them for the 14 bolt or 60, but some people want to ditch the weight and buy shiny parts I guess. For wheeling, it makes no sense to buy one imo unless you just don't have a carrier with that free axle you got.

"No market" is the easiest explanation. You can find numerous posts about guys just welding them up on here. And again, with the 14 bolt mantra, nobody has bothered to make them. Nobody would buy them unless every mofo out there was using them. Who runs a spool in a 14 bolt anyway? Maybe pullers? Not really common in the wheeling world.

The hot money is on a 10.5 with a factory E locker. It does everything you'd want and needs no upgrades but whatever gear ratio you want. If 4.30s will do, some trucks get that factory.
__________________
-Dave

Quote:
By the way, Irregardless does pass spell check and it is a word. The meaning is exactly the same, you just want to play games

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


For the best deal on 8 lug disc brakes click here-->
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by Dr.Danger; 01-31-2019 at 09:10 AM.
Dr.Danger is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-31-2019, 09:18 AM   #47 (permalink)
Zeus of the Sluice
 
arse_sidewards's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Member # 256962
Location: People's Republic of Taxachusetts
Posts: 3,769
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
GM 10.5" 14bolt = Dana 80 = GM 11.5"
The 14b is not on the same level as the 80 and 11.5. It's above or below the 10.5/10.25 depending on what you're doing and how you intend to build it. Both are superior to the D70.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Danger View Post
Sure, they're not used as much in wheelers. It's due to a lot of "14 bolt is the absolute best" mantra being repeated over the last 20 years, the same way it has been for GM parts for years and years despite it not being gospel truth.
Speaking of which, the Chevy v8 is/was the worst of the GM v8s of the era and it was certainly no better than the Chrysler or Ford. The only reason it gained popularity was because it was more readily available for cheap than the others. Idiots stuffing it into everything lead to more aftermarket which lead to cheaper aftermarket.

"Which X is best" is somewhat of a self fulfilling prophecy. If enough idiots delude themselves into thinking something is best it creates a business opportunity for the aftermarket to try and help make their dreams a reality.

In 10yr the JKU will be the go to wheeling platform because they'll be everywhere for cheap and the aftermarket already exists.

Last edited by arse_sidewards; 01-31-2019 at 09:20 AM.
arse_sidewards is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-31-2019, 09:25 AM   #48 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Member # 168243
Location: College Station, TX
Posts: 11,336
Quote:
Originally Posted by arse_sidewards View Post
The 14b is not on the same level as the 80 and 11.5. It's above or below the 10.5/10.25 depending on what you're doing and how you intend to build it. Both are superior to the D70.



Speaking of which, the Chevy v8 is/was the worst of the GM v8s of the era and it was certainly no better than the Chrysler or Ford. The only reason it gained popularity was because it was more readily available for cheap than the others. Idiots stuffing it into everything lead to more aftermarket which lead to cheaper aftermarket.

"Which X is best" is somewhat of a self fulfilling prophecy. If enough idiots delude themselves into thinking something is best it creates a business opportunity for the aftermarket to try and help make their dreams a reality.
Spot on. It's why aftermarket parts suppliers make the shit and magazines push for purchasing it. It's to make money on a narrative. If everything were good to go out of the box, there wouldn't be a need for an aftermarket, and they cannot make money when there is no need for an aftermarket.

Listening to the aftermarket to tell you what is the best factory part is going against their entire purpose for existing. Sales is entirely about creating a need.
__________________
-Dave

Quote:
By the way, Irregardless does pass spell check and it is a word. The meaning is exactly the same, you just want to play games

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


For the best deal on 8 lug disc brakes click here-->
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Dr.Danger is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-31-2019, 09:30 AM   #49 (permalink)
Rock God
 
The Mac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Member # 21507
Location: Kent Wa
Posts: 1,314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Danger View Post
Google "37 spline 10.5". Go ahead.

I have never purchased a spool for anything, but you're missing that the carriers themselves are not strong enough on those little axles. A Sterling carrier is beefy as hell and isn't what's going to break.

That doesn't explain why they make them for the 14 bolt or 60, but some people want to ditch the weight and buy shiny parts I guess. For wheeling, it makes no sense to buy one imo unless you just don't have a carrier with that free axle you got.

"No market" is the easiest explanation. You can find numerous posts about guys just welding them up on here. And again, with the 14 bolt mantra, nobody has bothered to make them. Nobody would buy them unless every mofo out there was using them. Who runs a spool in a 14 bolt anyway? Maybe pullers? Not really common in the wheeling world.

The hot money is on a 10.5 with a factory E locker. It does everything you'd want and needs no upgrades but whatever gear ratio you want. If 4.30s will do, some trucks get that factory.
HAHA DUDE the 37 spline in the 10.5 is the PINION spine not the axle splines... I'm not just some axle rookie... I have done nothing but axles since the 1990s so nothing you are going to tell me when it comes to axles is going to be news to me....
__________________
Mac
The Mac is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-31-2019, 09:41 AM   #50 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Member # 168243
Location: College Station, TX
Posts: 11,336
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mac View Post
HAHA DUDE the 37 spline in the 10.5 is the PINION spine not the axle splines... I'm not just some axle rookie... I have done nothing but axles since the 1990s so nothing you are going to tell me when it comes to axles is going to be news to me....
Everyone in the context of the discussion is calling the 11+ axle "the 37 spline" to differentiate it. We can call it "latest version of the 10.5" if you'd like? Nothing about what I said isn't untrue, even for the 05-11 axles, and even if you want to make this into a "gotcha" about where the splines in the colloquial name are.

It's also OK for you to believe one thing and for me to think something different. You're not going to convince me that they're worlds worse than a 14 bolt and nobody should build anything different. There's plenty of evidence out there to challenge what people have been saying about the 14 bolts for decades. Enough that several here are starting to realize it's not the end all, be all axle for this sport.

Are you going to address the meat of my post, or just dismiss it entirely over that?
__________________
-Dave

Quote:
By the way, Irregardless does pass spell check and it is a word. The meaning is exactly the same, you just want to play games

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


For the best deal on 8 lug disc brakes click here-->
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by Dr.Danger; 01-31-2019 at 09:42 AM.
Dr.Danger is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

** A VERIFICATION EMAIL IS SENT TO THIS ADDRESS TO COMPLETE REGISTRATION!! **

Email Address:
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:43 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.