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Old 01-24-2019, 07:45 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Correct order ?

Strongest to weakest
Dana 80
Dana 70
Ford 10.25
ff 14 bolt
dana60
sf 14bolt
ford 9"
dana 44
ford 8.8"
12 bolt
10bolt
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Old 01-24-2019, 08:51 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ParadiseAutoElectric View Post
Strongest to weakest
Aam 11.5
Dana 80
ff 14 bolt
Ford 10.25/10.5
Dana 70
dana 60 35 spline ff
sf 14bolt
ford 9" 31 spline sf
dana 44
ford 8.8"
12 bolt
10bolt
Fixed
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Old 01-24-2019, 11:24 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Fixed
i agree
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Old 01-25-2019, 12:58 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ParadiseAutoElectric View Post
Strongest to weakest
Rockwells son!
Toyota 8"
Dana 80
ff 14 bolt
Ford 10.25/10.5
Dana 70
dana60
sf 14bolt
ford 9"
dana 44
ford 8.8"
12 bolt
10bolt
Dana30/golfkart

Double fixed
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Old 01-25-2019, 03:23 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Strongest to weakest
Toyota anything - Because they take an asspounding in a totally gay manner from the minute they're built/born, in actual strength they suck but the aura or gayness acts almost like a forcefield when combined with the powerplant making near zero power or being perpetually blown up
Isuzu 12B - Because it's awesome, but without the gay asspounding
Dana S135 - Because higher numbers are better
Dana 53 - Oddball rules conventional
Ford 7.5 - Ground clearance is better
Lada N3 - Communism always comes last
Fixed.
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Old 01-25-2019, 05:23 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Toyota anything - Because they take an asspounding in a totally gay manner from the minute they're built/born, in actual strength they suck but the aura or gayness acts almost like a forcefield when combined with the powerplant making near zero power or being perpetually blown up
Will you quit with the Toyota = gay thing. It's insulting to gay people.
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Old 01-25-2019, 06:38 AM   #7 (permalink)
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What about the nissan h33b? 9.4 inch ring gear and 33 spline shafts
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Old 01-25-2019, 06:57 AM   #8 (permalink)
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No chit???

A Dana 44 ahead of a Ford 8.8 in strength?


I have a '94 Bronco.

I find that interesting.
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Old 01-25-2019, 07:24 AM   #9 (permalink)
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No chit???

A Dana 44 ahead of a Ford 8.8 in strength?


I have a '94 Bronco.

I find that interesting.
Putting the 44 ahead of the 8.8 is false and stupid. It's something a Jeep driving cock gobbler with a 44 would say to feel good about themselves.

The 8.8 carrier has much more beef and the pinion offset is greater making for stronger gears.

As a complete assembly a 44 is about the same as the 28spl 8.8 (why anyone would run one of those is beyond me) in terms of strength (the 8.8 still has a better ring/pinion and carrier though). Compared to the 31spl 8.8 it's not even close. I'd rate the D50 about the same as the 8.8 in the shafts and carrier department but the 8.8 still wins in the ring gear department. Even the JK44 isn't as beefy as a 31spl 8.8.

Last edited by arse_sidewards; 01-25-2019 at 07:25 AM.
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Old 01-25-2019, 07:55 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by YROC FAB. View Post
Double fixed
Quote:
Originally Posted by ParadiseAutoElectric
Strongest to weakest

Axletech
Space because Axletech's are that much more stronger ::
Rockwells
GM 10.5" 14bolt (Third pinion bearing makes this axle killer)
Dana 80
GM 11.5" (Has axle tube issues that put it below the 10.5" IMO.
Ford 10.25/10.5
Dana 70
Dana 60
GM 9.5" 14bolt
Ford 9"
Nissan 233B
Toyota 8"
Ford 8.8"
JK Dana 44 (Bigger Bearings & Gear set then old D44)
GM 12 Bolt
GM 8.5" (10 Bolt) Has Larger Bearings, Larger Pinion & Gear Contact pattern then a D44
Dana 44
H/P Dana 30
Dana30/golfkart
Dana 35
Triple Fixed!!!
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Old 01-25-2019, 08:01 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Rockwells
GM 10.5" 14bolt (Third pinion bearing makes this axle killer)
Dana 80
GM 11.5" (Has axle tube issues that put it below the 10.5" IMO.
I disagree with placing the 14b above the 80 and 11.5 unless you're talking front, low pinion applications only.

The 14b will probably work just as well initially but when the age and abuse starts piling up the bigger gears and bearings of the 80 and 11.5 will let them outlast the 14b. The OEMs use the bigger axles for a reason.
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Old 01-25-2019, 08:25 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by arse_sidewards View Post
I disagree with placing the 14b above the 80 and 11.5 unless you're talking front, low pinion applications only.

The 14b will probably work just as well initially but when the age and abuse starts piling up the bigger gears and bearings of the 80 and 11.5 will let them outlast the 14b. The OEMs use the bigger axles for a reason.
I don't disagree with your point.
Clearly this is all pretty subjective, like I stated the 11.5 has axle tube issues and that's why I put it where I did. If we are just talking strength of the gears, then you are absolutely on point. I was taking into account other issues that each assembly has.

I think the 10.5" is the best all around and has the least draw backs and has the best aftermarket support.
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Old 01-25-2019, 09:04 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Fixed
I disagree with the sterling over the 14 bolt but that's arguable

isn't the 8.8 stronger than a dana44
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Old 01-25-2019, 09:07 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ParadiseAutoElectric View Post
Strongest to weakest
Dana 80
Dana 70
Ford 10.25
ff 14 bolt
dana60
sf 14bolt
ford 9"
dana 44
ford 8.8"
12 bolt
10bolt

80
10.5
14b
70
60
9
8.8

None of the rest are even worth mentioning unless you are speaking of the newer bigger ring gear 44's which the early ones had notoriously week tubes, possibly still do .

And the 10.5 Sterling has been using a big ass 37 spline pinion for close to the last 10 years, which is the same spline count as an 80, so the whole chart is kind of out to lunch anyway and subjective as pointed out previous .


If I had 5 bucks for every time I've heard someone say how awesome the 14 bolt is because it has a 3rd pinion bearing, I could get two high end Hookers and a shoe box full of coke for the weekend .

The reason the 14 bolt has a tiny little bearing on the nub sticking out from the face of the pinion is because the stubby little 14 bolt pinion cannot survive w/o it, it is too short, the two main pinion bearings are too close together to offer proper support on their own, and the pinion would wobble around and eat itself against the ring gear w/o that little support bearing on the end, it isn't awesome, it is simply an absolute necessity to keep that design alive .




In before K5 Jack comes in to say how the 14 bolts are all hand carved by Jesus himself with his Dad looking over his shoulder doing quality control .
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Old 01-25-2019, 09:34 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Putting the 44 ahead of the 8.8 is false and stupid. It's something a Jeep driving cock gobbler with a 44 would say to feel good about themselves.

The 8.8 carrier has much more beef and the pinion offset is greater making for stronger gears.

As a complete assembly a 44 is about the same as the 28spl 8.8 (why anyone would run one of those is beyond me) in terms of strength (the 8.8 still has a better ring/pinion and carrier though). Compared to the 31spl 8.8 it's not even close. I'd rate the D50 about the same as the 8.8 in the shafts and carrier department but the 8.8 still wins in the ring gear department. Even the JK44 isn't as beefy as a 31spl 8.8.
Ah! Ok.


Thanks for info.
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Old 01-25-2019, 10:43 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Ah! Ok.


Thanks for info.
the 8.8 YJ swap was made famous because it was much stronger than the dana 44 and a near bolt in.
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Old 01-25-2019, 10:53 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Triple Fixed!!!
You must have some golden(300m?) toy 8" diffs, also, I think samurai diffs should be above D35

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If I had 5 bucks for every time I've heard someone say how awesome the 14 bolt is because it has a 3rd pinion bearing, I could get two high end Hookers and a shoe box full of coke for the weekend .

The reason the 14 bolt has a tiny little bearing on the nub sticking out from the face of the pinion is because the stubby little 14 bolt pinion cannot survive w/o it, it is too short, the two main pinion bearings are too close together to offer proper support on their own, and the pinion would wobble around and eat itself against the ring gear w/o that little support bearing on the end, it isn't awesome, it is simply an absolute necessity to keep that design alive .




In before K5 Jack comes in to say how the 14 bolts are all hand carved by Jesus himself with his Dad looking over his shoulder doing quality control .
You really think they were dead set on the short pinion and then added all the complexity of a 3rd pinion bearing to bandaid it?

I think you have it backwards, the pinion doesn't need to be very long because of the 3rd pinion bearing, same reason the 9" has a stubby pinion. If this were not the case I would imagine companies like gearworks would design a longer pinion.

Did a 14b touch you when you were young or something?

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Old 01-25-2019, 10:58 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Also, does anyone know why no one makes a "prorock 14b" or "rock jock 14b"? Is it a licensing thing? I would think a brand new 14b casting with extra clearance from the get go would sell pretty well.
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Old 01-25-2019, 11:03 AM   #19 (permalink)
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A 9" in stock form is worthless in all aspects
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Old 01-25-2019, 11:42 AM   #20 (permalink)
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If I had 5 bucks for every time I've heard someone say how awesome the 14 bolt is because it has a 3rd pinion bearing, I could get two high end Hookers and a shoe box full of coke for the weekend .

The reason the 14 bolt has a tiny little bearing on the nub sticking out from the face of the pinion is because the stubby little 14 bolt pinion cannot survive w/o it, it is too short, the two main pinion bearings are too close together to offer proper support on their own, and the pinion would wobble around and eat itself against the ring gear w/o that little support bearing on the end, it isn't awesome, it is simply an absolute necessity to keep that design alive.
I we follow your logic, then 90% of the guys the run KOH, as well as the companies that build 9" & 10" Axle's are just dumb, because the 9" & 10" use and support that design for the EXACT same reasons you stated (The pinion bearings are too close) but the design has other bennifits.
That design that you seem to despise has been tried and true since the 1940s and continues to be used to this very day for good reason.

Answer me this... If the ONLY reason they used that design was because the pinion bearing are too close, then why didn't they fix it early on? Why would GM continue to use that design for 44 years with minimal changes? Why did they continue to use it until 2015 when they had the 11.5" at their disposal starting in 2001?

If I had 5 bucks for every time I've herd "The D80 & 11&UP 10.5 Ford has a 37 spline pinion" I could get two low end Hookers and a Ziploc baggie full of coke for 45 minutes.

Fact is, for 99% of the off road world sheered pinion shafts are a non-issue. On top of that the fact that ground clearance (Even shaved) is worse on the 10.5" Ford than a shaved GM 14 or even a D80 and there is SHIT aftermarket support for the Ford axle.

Saying "the pinion would wobble around and eat itself against the ring gear w/o that little support bearing on the end" is the equivalent to saying "The crank shaft on an LS motor would just wobble and eat itself w/o a bearing on both ends" ...... NO SHIT!! But there is.... so it doesn't

I'll add that I'm a fan of the D80 and the 11.5, but people think D80's are worth their weight in gold and the 11.5 is such a boat anchor that I feel like the 10.5" 14 bolt is still towards the top when all things are considered.

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Old 01-25-2019, 11:50 AM   #21 (permalink)
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You really think they were dead set on the short pinion and then added all the complexity of a 3rd pinion bearing to bandaid it?


Yes yes, that is clearly exactly what i was saying word for word, there was an engineering accident at the AAM factory and they welded a nub to all of the 14 bolt pinions and added a bearing to bandaid it .
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Old 01-25-2019, 12:17 PM   #22 (permalink)
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there was an engineering accident at the AAM factory and they welded a nub to all of the 14 bolt pinions and added a bearing to bandaid it .
Sorry man, no disrespect intended but that is one the stupidest comments I've seen on Pirate in a long time....

Lets put your comment in prospective.

In 1959 when Eaton engineers were designing the HO72 they fucked up and built an axle with single HUGE pinion bearing that didn't work and rather than fix it they were so dumb that they just said fuck it and added a pilot bearing and moved on..
Then in 1970 when looking for a cheaper axle and they were designing the 10.5" 14 bolt, a group of dopey engineers fucked up AGAIN and built a whole new rear axle and made almost the same mistake and did the exact same thing and just said fuck it... and just added a 3rd bearing again.
THEN yet again in 1987, when they decided they needed to make some changes, a whole new group of dopey engineers fucked up yet AGAIN and kept the shitty design and retooled, spent tens of thousands of dollars and keept the fuck up from 1959 going....

YEP you're right.... it was a band aid fix from a group of moronic engineers.
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Old 01-25-2019, 12:47 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I'm just glad Mac hasn't left PBB, that is all hah!
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Old 01-25-2019, 12:50 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Yes yes, that is clearly exactly what i was saying word for word, there was an engineering accident at the AAM factory and they welded a nub to all of the 14 bolt pinions and added a bearing to bandaid it .
Then what are you saying?
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Old 01-25-2019, 03:05 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Then what are you saying?


All I was saying Yota is that the pinion support bearing is a part of the overall design, it is meant to be that way, it was designed and engineered that way .

But constantly I read and hear the the 14 bolt is vastly superior in design and strength because it has this, as if every other axle that doesn't have this is simply inferior, this is claimed and repeated by the masses that don't understand the true meaning of why it is actually there .

I have zero problems with 14 bolts, do I think they are moderately overated? Yes .




the macaroni clearly does not understand sarcasm, which does not surprise me in the least .
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