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-   -   Shocks on a Bronco question. Drives like a boat. (https://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2683928)

BDK 06-17-2019 03:29 PM

Did you keep the sway bars? If you removed them, you can get a wallow type effect. Without the sway bars on my Explorer it would wallow all over the highway when I still had the TTB suspension. Sometimes, it would go into a death wallow until I either braked or accelerated.

mobil1syn 06-17-2019 03:32 PM

have you assigned a dollar value to solving this problem?

Mr.RatBastard 06-17-2019 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BDK (Post 44486232)
Did you keep the sway bars? If you removed them, you can get a wallow type effect. Without the sway bars on my Explorer it would wallow all over the highway when I still had the TTB suspension. Sometimes, it would go into a death wallow until I either braked or accelerated.

I have the factory front, it never had a rear bar.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mobil1syn (Post 44486234)
have you assigned a dollar value to solving this problem?

A few dollars more and I will go back to the drawing board. I don't want to get in it much more at this point. A lot of people would be happy with the way it's driving.

bdkw1 06-17-2019 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 45acp (Post 44486052)
This ^

It's gonna be really hard to get a super short wheelbase twin tractor beam to ride and handle great with that much lift.

With that lift yes.

Having towed a 24' travel trailer with a Bronco down to Baja and back a few times, I would not recommend it. Taping the trailer brakes to stop the wag became second nature..........

arse_sidewards 06-18-2019 05:35 AM

OP needs to grow a pair. It's not gonna handle like a car. Deal.

Everyone saying sway bars need to pull their heads out of their asses. Any sway bar stiff enough to keep something with 6" lift coils (have you seen the kinds of spring rates TTB lift coils have?) from being all over the road is going to seriously compromise handling in other ways.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mobil1syn (Post 44486026)
short wheel base and beams make for some interesting handling, especially with a 6" superlift. not sure what to tell you other then make sure the steering angle matches the beam angle, ditch the airbags because im sure towing with that setup has to be sketchy as hell. i would also venture to say the kit is over sprung which isnt doing you any favors.

This is spot on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beat95YJ (Post 44486106)
Excessive rebound or compression can make a ride stiff. Bouncy can be a result of a stiff or soft shock both. It sounds like your issue is float on compression, leading me to believe that you would like more compression. I built a f150 that rode nice with crazy amounts of compression. Iím amazed what a ttb will take.

The rebound just needs to control the spring. More spring rate requires more rebound. High rebound, high spring rate, minimal compression are common in passenger and performance cars, doesnít translate well to trucks imo.

I second all of this. TTB likes minimal rebound.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BDK (Post 44486232)
Did you keep the sway bars? If you removed them, you can get a wallow type effect. Without the sway bars on my Explorer it would wallow all over the highway when I still had the TTB suspension. Sometimes, it would go into a death wallow until I either braked or accelerated.

Something else is fucked. Most of my TTB vehicles didn't come with sway bars and I removed them from the rest. They don't have any sort of "wallow"

fredycruger 06-18-2019 06:18 AM

add outboard to the back and have 2 in 1 deals :flipoff2:

Mr.RatBastard 06-18-2019 07:19 AM

OP needs to grow a pair. It's not gonna handle like a car. Deal.

It would be nice if it drove like a truck. I don't need a 70's Eldorado.

Everyone saying sway bars need to pull their heads out of their asses. Any sway bar stiff enough to keep something with 6" lift coils (have you seen the kinds of spring rates TTB lift coils have?) from being all over the road is going to seriously compromise handling in other ways.

Especially since it has the sway bar on it.



This is spot on.

Bags improved the handling for now and was far less sketchy towing than it was before. The steering angle is as close as it can get at the moment. There is very slight bump steer and it's magnified by the marsh mellows holding the front end up.. Oversprung as in too stiff? any softer would be wet noodles.

Superlift 6" coil 445lb free length 21.5"
Procomp 4" coil 475lb 18.750"
Stock 366lb 15.8"



I second all of this. TTB likes minimal rebound.

It has that now and it may love it, I don't.

Mr.RatBastard 06-18-2019 07:23 AM

The Bilteins are on the way I will update if they made it worse or better.

mobil1syn 06-18-2019 08:57 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.RatBastard (Post 44486272)
A few dollars more and I will go back to the drawing board. I don't want to get in it much more at this point. A lot of people would be happy with the way it's driving.

a pair of bolt in performance series shocks would be ideal, atleast then you could revalve them to get the ride quality you are after.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.RatBastard (Post 44486836)

Bags improved the handling for now and was far less sketchy towing than it was before. The steering angle is as close as it can get at the moment. There is very slight bump steer and it's magnified by the marsh mellows holding the front end up.. Oversprung as in too stiff? any softer would be wet noodles.

Superlift 6" coil 445lb free length 21.5"
Procomp 4" coil 475lb 18.750"
Stock 366lb 15.8"

bags keep the ass end from sagging and keeps the steering happy, once the rear sags and the front droops you get some toe in and that creates the wandering. played that game once and it was uh, interesting to say the least. especially a crossed the expansion joints on the highway. what this also does is makes the front do all the work since the rear becomes 'stiff' even unloaded. good luck

fyi - on my coilovers im running a 169 combined rate (275/400)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.RatBastard (Post 44486842)
The Bilteins are on the way I will update if they made it worse or better.

id cancel the order and call accutune

welndmn 06-18-2019 09:12 AM

If you did not know, off the shelf shocks for Bronco/F150 are valved different for single shock, or dual shock front ends, so make sure you buy correctly, I don't know how Bilstien makes their part numbers.
Ford also didn't put 2 shocks on the front end as a nice feature, you need more damping to control the TTB. While the Bilstien is a quality shock, I don't think 1 will do, you need to step up to a 2.5 inch shock or dual shocks if you want performance out of it.

arse_sidewards 06-18-2019 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by welndmn (Post 44486980)
If you did not know, off the shelf shocks for Bronco/F150 are valved different for single shock, or dual shock front ends, so make sure you buy correctly, I don't know how Bilstien makes their part numbers.
Ford also didn't put 2 shocks on the front end as a nice feature, you need more damping to control the TTB. While the Bilstien is a quality shock, I don't think 1 will do, you need to step up to a 2.5 inch shock or dual shocks if you want performance out of it.

Ford put quad shocks on the Broncos and F150s that came with that option because it was the 80s and good shocks were few and far between so it was basically their "performance" option.

There's nothing special about the TTB that requires an extra shock.

Beat95YJ 06-18-2019 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.RatBastard (Post 44486836)
I second all of this. TTB likes minimal rebound.

It has that now and it may love it, I don't.

Where do you get the idea that you have minimal rebound now? You have shit twin tubes that are likely pretty high in rebound. All your complaints are about compression damping in the OP.

Mr.RatBastard 06-18-2019 10:39 AM

a pair of bolt in performance series shocks would be ideal, atleast then you could revalve them to get the ride quality you are after.



bags keep the ass end from sagging and keeps the steering happy, once the rear sags and the front droops you get some toe in and that creates the wandering. played that game once and it was uh, interesting to say the least. especially a crossed the expansion joints on the highway. what this also does is makes the front do all the work since the rear becomes 'stiff' even unloaded. good luck
I would say the rear is over sprung at this point and it is unbalanced(I still prefer it to dragging my elbows going around corners:D)But it's not right yet, no doubt. I should be able to drop the bags down with the new shocks.

fyi - on my coilovers im running a 169 combined rate (275/400)

Good to know. Did you do upper mounts like this?
https://www.solomotorsports.com/wp-c...-2-748x554.jpg




id cancel the order and call accutune
They are here and I am going to try them out. I may be totally wrong about this but I will post the results either way. These are night and day with the BDS shocks so good or bad it will be different.

Quote:

Originally Posted by welndmn (Post 44486980)
If you did not know, off the shelf shocks for Bronco/F150 are valved different for single shock, or dual shock front ends, so make sure you buy correctly, I don't know how Bilstien makes their part numbers.
Ford also didn't put 2 shocks on the front end as a nice feature, you need more damping to control the TTB. While the Bilstien is a quality shock, I don't think 1 will do, you need to step up to a 2.5 inch shock or dual shocks if you want performance out of it.

I do know and that was really what the whole thread was about. The two sets of brand new shocks I have are so soft you can easily compress them by hand. I was concerned that meant they were actually for a 4 shock front end so I was trying to get verification my third set would be for a single shock per side setup. The new Bilsteins are way different than what I have. Good or bad we will see. I think they will allow me to drop the air bag pressure down and gain a little control of the springs.

Mr.RatBastard 06-18-2019 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beat95YJ (Post 44487110)
Where do you get the idea that you have minimal rebound now? You have shit twin tubes that are likely pretty high in rebound. All your complaints are about compression damping in the OP.

I could be ass backwards but my reason for thinking I have minimal rebound was that BDS shocks are weak and slow to rebound and the Bilsteins rebound quickly with authority on the bench anyway. I know that is a over simplification but that's it.
The Bilsteins were bought to address the compression damping. The BDS are also have very weak compression damping imo. I don't think the truck even knows there are shocks on it. After driving it about 50 miles today I am thinking it has more to do with the shocks than anything else.

Anyone want to buy some BDS nitro shocks? They are great. :D
I also have a set of Superlift shocks, never even opened the box.

welndmn 06-18-2019 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arse_sidewards (Post 44486992)
Ford put quad shocks on the Broncos and F150s that came with that option because it was the 80s and good shocks were few and far between so it was basically their "performance" option.

There's nothing special about the TTB that requires an extra shock.

So you agree?
Or you think the standard white box shocks that are still package with every lift kit are somehow different that the ones from the 80's?
White shocks are white shocks :)

arse_sidewards 06-18-2019 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by welndmn (Post 44487232)
So you agree?
Or you think the standard white box shocks that are still package with every lift kit are somehow different that the ones from the 80's?
White shocks are white shocks :)

What is it about the TTB that turns people into mullet wearin', trailer livin', sister fuckin' idiots incapable of understanding middle school level geometry?

As far as the shock cares there's nothing special about the TTB. It's no more demanding of shocks than any other IFS. If anything it's less demanding because the motion ratio between the shock and the wheel is greater than that of your typical A-arm IFS with suspension pivots much closer to the wheel. The Monroe and KYB budget line shocks work tolerably enough on every other IFS vehicle. They work fine on TTB trucks.

Mr.RatBastard 06-18-2019 01:37 PM

Bilstein's are on. It's a definite improvement. I dropped the bags to 25psi. What it feels like is the BDS shocks did nothing for the first inch or so of travel so it was in a constant state of motion, now it's not. I will report back if I don't think this is accurate after I put a few miles on it.

welndmn 06-18-2019 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arse_sidewards (Post 44487288)
What is it about the TTB that turns people into mullet wearin', trailer livin', sister fuckin' idiots incapable of understanding middle school level geometry?

As far as the shock cares there's nothing special about the TTB. It's no more demanding of shocks than any other IFS. If anything it's less demanding because the motion ratio between the shock and the wheel is greater than that of your typical A-arm IFS with suspension pivots much closer to the wheel. The Monroe and KYB budget line shocks work tolerably enough on every other IFS vehicle. They work fine on TTB trucks.

:rolleyes:
Cheap standard shocks cause large amounts of tire wear on TTB because of the massive camber changes.
Do you know what un even tire wear is, the lack of contact with the ground.

Beat95YJ 06-18-2019 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.RatBastard (Post 44487212)
I could be ass backwards but my reason for thinking I have minimal rebound was that BDS shocks are weak and slow to rebound and the Bilsteins rebound quickly with authority on the bench anyway. I know that is a over simplification but that's it.
The Bilsteins were bought to address the compression damping. The BDS are also have very weak compression damping imo. I don't think the truck even knows there are shocks on it. After driving it about 50 miles today I am thinking it has more to do with the shocks than anything else.

Anyone want to buy some BDS nitro shocks? They are great. :D
I also have a set of Superlift shocks, never even opened the box.

You are talking about the fact that the bilsteins are high pressure monotubes, while the BDS are lower pressure (if at all) twin tubes. Extension on the bench is not a good indicator of rebound damping. If it was, FYI slower is stiffer (more rebound)

mobil1syn 06-18-2019 02:41 PM

5 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.RatBastard (Post 44487112)
Good to know. Did you do upper mounts like this?

attached are a few pictures, two frames supports is not enough, plus i didnt like where the shock ends up on their and the other hoops.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.RatBastard (Post 44487112)
I do know and that was really what the whole thread was about. The two sets of brand new shocks I have are so soft you can easily compress them by hand. I was concerned that meant they were actually for a 4 shock front end so I was trying to get verification my third set would be for a single shock per side setup. The new Bilsteins are way different than what I have. Good or bad we will see. I think they will allow me to drop the air bag pressure down and gain a little control of the springs.

thats because they are a shock without an IFP.

Mr.RatBastard 06-18-2019 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beat95YJ (Post 44487536)
You are talking about the fact that the bilsteins are high pressure monotubes, while the BDS are lower pressure (if at all) twin tubes. Extension on the bench is not a good indicator of rebound damping. If it was, FYI slower is stiffer (more rebound)

Gotcha

Quote:

Originally Posted by mobil1syn (Post 44487576)
attached are a few pictures, two frames supports is not enough, plus i didnt like where the shock ends up on their and the other hoops.



thats because they are a shock without an IFP.

Very nice setup. I am trying to keep the damn thing simple. Next thing you know I will be doing a major build. I have enough builds going onto keep me busy for awhile. I would love to copy your setup and I might have tried if I asked more questions early on. Now it's time to drive it for awhile.
Thanks for all the input everybody. I will update after some miles are on it.

CDA 455 06-23-2019 06:38 PM

So ditching the TTB for an SAS would simplify and improve front suspension?


BTW; I own a '94 Bronco.

xjtony 06-23-2019 09:03 PM

So how does it ride with the bilsteins on it now?

2big bronco 06-23-2019 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDA 455 (Post 44494714)
So ditching the TTB for an SAS would simplify and improve front suspension?


BTW; I own a '94 Bronco.

Sorta but in stockish form there isnt much wrong with TV. Btw late 70s f150 stuff is almost bolt in. It's not hard at all to swap it in in a long day if you have everything in front of you.

xjtony 06-24-2019 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2big bronco (Post 44494980)
Quote:

Originally Posted by CDA 455 (Post 44494714)
So ditching the TTB for an SAS would simplify and improve front suspension?


BTW; I own a '94 Bronco.

Sorta but in stockish form there isnt much wrong with TV. Btw late 70s f150 stuff is almost bolt in. It's not hard at all to swap it in in a long day if you have everything in front of you.

Several of my old friends had Broncos/f150s that we solid axle swapped in like 79 ford Dana 44 front axles with the factory ford radius arm style suspension. Worked fine. My old xj was done that way because of it.


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