Rear Driveshaft Options. CV or U-Joint - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum
 
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Old 08-14-2019, 06:01 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Rear Driveshaft Options. CV or U-Joint

I'm just waiting on some hardware to arrive so I can install the Sterling 10.5. I have it mostly in position, just need to raise the rear of the truck more so I can scoot the axle back 8 inches.

I'm starting to take measurements so I can get driveshafts made. The front shaft is going to be about 4.5 feet long, and the angle looks mild enough to not need to think about a double cardan. The transfer case is a divorced mount NP 205, so an 8 inch driveshaft will be made to connect to the transmission.

Now from the output of the transfer case to where the input of the rear differential is, is about 33 inches. The driveline angle, between the ground and the rear driveshaft, would be roughly 30-33 degrees.

I'm welding new spring perches on the rear axle, so if I need to change the angle of the rear pinion, this is the time to do it. I know if you're using a CV drive shaft, you point the pinion at the output of the T-Case correct?

I'm just worried about how short, the rear shaft is compared to the front shaft and if the angle is too steep even for a CV shaft. Also, the T-case has fixed yoke outputs, and the rear diff has a fixed flanged, so I'm not sure if it would be better to convert the tcase to a slip yoke, or have a slip shaft made.


[IMG][url=https://flic.kr/p/2gXkp5h][/IMG]



Remember in the picture about, the rear axle still needs to be moved back 8 inches, and the transfer case needs to be raised about 5 inches
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Old 08-14-2019, 07:42 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Pinion pointed at the t case with a cv, slip joint in the shaft. I used a cut down F250 front cv shaft for the rear of my Landcruiser. Works like a champ.
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Old 08-14-2019, 10:28 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Pinion pointed at the t case with a cv, slip joint in the shaft. I used a cut down F250 front cv shaft for the rear of my Landcruiser. Works like a champ.
ok awesome, thanks for the reply. No issues with vibration or wearing out joints with angles like that?
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Old 08-14-2019, 10:55 PM   #4 (permalink)
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How finalized is the divorced 205? I'm assuming the truck was 2wd stock? Why not convert to a 4wd trans and tcase? That would help your angle a ton.

You may have shifting issues when you put it in low depending on where the speed sensor is.

But yes, use a cv and point the pinion up at the tcase.
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Old 08-15-2019, 08:03 AM   #5 (permalink)
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How finalized is the divorced 205? I'm assuming the truck was 2wd stock? Why not convert to a 4wd trans and tcase? That would help your angle a ton.

You may have shifting issues when you put it in low depending on where the speed sensor is.

But yes, use a cv and point the pinion up at the tcase.

I really want to make the NP 205 work, the transmission is a 2wd 47RH that came with the Cummins 12v. I already sunk some money into upgrading the tranny with Torque Converter, Valve body, new clutches, some billet internals, etc.

The operating angle is approximately 27 degrees. The driveshaft would be about 33 degrees down, and the transmission/tcase output is about 6 degrees down relative to the ground in the picture above. I may have to call High Angle Driveline and see what the have.
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Old 08-15-2019, 01:54 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by texastruck View Post
I really want to make the NP 205 work, the transmission is a 2wd 47RH that came with the Cummins 12v. I already sunk some money into upgrading the tranny with Torque Converter, Valve body, new clutches, some billet internals, etc.

The operating angle is approximately 27 degrees. The driveshaft would be about 33 degrees down, and the transmission/tcase output is about 6 degrees down relative to the ground in the picture above. I may have to call High Angle Driveline and see what the have.
You should be able to convert it to 4wd somewhat easily. I would very seriously consider it. It might be cheaper than a high dollar drive line. Plus having a rear driveline that vibrates is no fun.
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Old 08-15-2019, 04:17 PM   #7 (permalink)
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FWIW - you really need to point it about 1 degree off so that the bearings in the u-joint are rotating. A perfectly aimed shaft will typically have quickly failing needle bearings because you're basically just pushing against them rather than having them spin some. And they need to move a bit in order to cause the grease to flow and keep them lubricated. It's an imperfect system for sure. But the great thing is you don't need to be perfectly aligned and you're best off to be just a little imperfect.

You can also use a double cardain at both ends. Then you can pretty much point the diff anywhere you want. It's a bit more expensive shaft though. But it solves a lot of issues like pinion oiling on an extreme angle'd rear end. Not an uncommon solution for vibration issues. In a sense it's the same idea that every IFS axle shaft ever made uses.



One additional issue is that if you tip the pinion up too high, you start to lose the lubrication of the outer pinion bearing. The solution for a moderately angled rear diff is to add a second fill port a bit higher. If you're going too much though - you'll need another solution. Lots of options to do that depending on your budget and fab skills. I've seized a pinion bearing from this issue on one of my toyotas, so I learned the hard way.

good luck

Last edited by jetboy; 08-15-2019 at 04:20 PM.
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Old 08-15-2019, 05:25 PM   #8 (permalink)
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fwiw they now offer a 1410 cv on the new fords and dodges so youre not stuck with 1350 size cv's anymore
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Old 08-15-2019, 05:57 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Generally speaking, single cardan will allow larger angle than double cardan. You will be much better off in all respects fitting a nv271 or nv241 directly to your existing transmission.
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Old 08-15-2019, 07:48 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Can the 1410 DC shafts survive at a 27* operating angle? I'm running a 1310 DC on my TJ at 21* operating angle and wouldn't want any more than that, I don't even want 21*. The centering balls don't last long at such an extreme angle and I had to adjust the fawking thing 20 times anywhere from 3* low to 1* high in .25* increments before I found the magic spot that didn't vibrate. I'd imagine at 27* degrees you'll run into a similar issue, where I'd say if you can get it angled somewhere below 0* that doesn't vibrate it'll help the axle side U joint, but if you can't you'll just have to live with it unless you like vibes
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Old 08-15-2019, 08:19 PM   #11 (permalink)
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the 1410 cv is listed at 30 degrees
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Old Yesterday, 08:46 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockyota83 View Post
the 1410 cv is listed at 30 degrees
How much droop is planned?

You need to run the math.

I take the driveline length and Max angle to figure out the max drop from horizontal.

Then I look at where I am at rest.

Then you'll know how much droop you will have - which will help you decide on how much shock you need (granted, with a center limit strap you will need more shock for articulation)

The 1410 CV may be 30 (max?) but you can find citations of the 1410 single-cardan at 37.

In all cases, U-joint life will suffer..


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Old Yesterday, 12:39 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Ok I made some adjustments and re-measured. I pointed the rear pinion upwards at 18*, the T-case I dropped about 1 inch and scooted it closer to the transmission about an inch and a half. My new operating angle between tcase output and driveshaft is 21*, between drive shaft and pinion is 9*. I think I would have to raise the rear pinion even more if I plan on going with a cv axle. Somewhere between 1*-2* below 0* to account for axle wrap, right?

Either way, 21* is a lot better than 27*. I had called a couple driveline shops locally (Houston), but they seemed a little impatient and told me I would have to tow the truck in for them to look at it. That's when I posted here in the forums, so thank you everyone for your help.

I called Tom Woods driveshaft and he said with a 1350 CV, I would have to swap in a drive flange in the output of the NP205, about $80 dollars. So that's looking like my best option at this point. I'll ask about a double cardan on both ends and see if that is overkill.

How strong is a 1350 CV joint? The transmission has a 1410 slip yoke. The divorced NP205 i BELIEVE has 1310 input and front output, 1330 rear output. Engine is a Cummins 12 Valve (lightly modded, approx 350 HP, 650 TQ)
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Old Yesterday, 05:17 PM   #14 (permalink)
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youve got to buy parts anyways so go with the 1410 and be done with it

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockyota83 View Post
the dodge 1410 cv can do 30 degrees too not only 20 like that thread says

https://neapco.mycarparts.net/produc...pco-N924141HAG
https://neapco.mycarparts.net/produc...pco-N924143HAG ford thicker wall tubing
https://neapco.mycarparts.net/produc...pco-N924142HAG ford
https://neapco.mycarparts.net/products/Neapco-N924141G the dodge 20 degree



handy link
https://www.neapcocomponents.com/ima...1366_4x4qr.pdf

if you want to buy it
https://www.drivetrainamerica.com/ne...cv-head-asmbl/

fwiw its not just a dodge part, its also a ford

theres 4 different 1410 cv joints
N924141G 20 degrees 3.12 pilot diameter dodge
N924141HAG 30 degrees 3.12 pilot diameter dodge
N924142HAG 30 degrees 2.68 pilot diameter ford
N924143HAG 30 degrees 2.68 pilot diameter ford

all have a 4.25 bolt pattern size
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Old Yesterday, 05:32 PM   #15 (permalink)
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You're going to regret spending all the money on a fancy driveshaft and still having vibrations.

Spend the money on a 4wd trans and swap the out put and tail housing over. Then use a 271 or married 205. There is a reason no one used divorced cases anymore. ESPECIALLY in short wheelbase rigs.
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