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Old 09-29-2019, 12:44 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Someone should do some testing with a heat gun.
I had hoped @meiser would chime in because he is very big on these things. But I think his tech has left pirate for Facebook.
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Old 09-29-2019, 03:24 PM   #52 (permalink)
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How is that any different than a hawse fairlead? Especially one of the new coated versions from Warn?
significantly more angle on these rings compared to a fairlead
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Old 09-29-2019, 03:25 PM   #53 (permalink)
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How is that any different than a hawse fairlead? Especially one of the new coated versions from Warn?
Do you pull a 90* angle on your fairlead normally?
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Old 09-29-2019, 04:04 PM   #54 (permalink)
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Do you pull a 90* angle on your fairlead normally?
Exactly
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Old 09-29-2019, 04:09 PM   #55 (permalink)
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This conversation reminds me of the conversations people had when they first started using synthetic rope on their winches.
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Old 09-29-2019, 04:10 PM   #56 (permalink)
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wnna go way overkill? make a sun and 4 planet set so that you increase your diameters and can keep them from slipping
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Old 09-29-2019, 04:11 PM   #57 (permalink)
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This conversation reminds me of the conversations people had when they first started using synthetic rope on their winches.
yup, for the amount of likely use, it has absolutely got its place
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Old 09-29-2019, 04:16 PM   #58 (permalink)
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Has anyone who is saying that these won't work actually used one?

I don't see that much heat being generated in a normal winching situation. Usually you only need a few feet to get out of what you're in. Personally, I'd like a larger diameter, just cause. Uhmw would also work well.
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Old 09-29-2019, 04:32 PM   #59 (permalink)
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This conversation reminds me of the conversations people had when they first started using synthetic rope on their winches.
Yeah, but for a little more work if you could make the thing better, then why not? It looks to me like a gen 1 product that if adopted will cause problems, and quickly be replaced by a "Better, newer, more awesomesaucenesser" version.


For the record I find I (or people I'm with) often pull vehicles a long ways with a snatch block. Normally in snow or mud. Yeah, different wheeling, but that's more what is common in my area. It looks like a crap product for that application, but I'm not saying it isn't going to work for your $100K Ultra-Showroom Racer.
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Old 09-29-2019, 05:00 PM   #60 (permalink)
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Has anyone who is saying that these won't work actually used one?
just a bunch of web wheelers bitching and moaning, i bet half of them are still running cable but they just feel the need to complain about something they couldnt even use if they wanted to











imo your average winch is moving slow enough for heat to not be a problem, as youre using it the rope is moving along bringing cooler rope over the aluminum to absorb the heat

osha says keep it below 194 degrees
https://www.osha.gov/dsg/guidance/sl...nth-fiber.html
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Old 09-29-2019, 05:01 PM   #61 (permalink)
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Not worried about that hunk of aluminum wearing out, I'm worried about the soft shackle or rope wearing. If the ring spins on the soft shackle while winching, its wearing out the soft shackle, period. If the ring doesn't spin on the soft shackle due to high loading, your rope is wearing out. Get it now?
The soft shackle could be an issue, but not the rope/cable.

Your rope would get hot if it ran continuously around it, but it doesn't. A single piece of rope is only on that thing for a few inches. A winch rope or cable will ware out eventually, but it certainly wouldn't ware out in a single outing, or even multiple winchings on a big trip.

But if the rope or cable goes out of the groove and it loses the nice, big, smooth, radius, it could fail right then and there.
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Old 09-29-2019, 05:06 PM   #62 (permalink)
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Has anyone who is saying that these won't work actually used one?

Do I really need to buy one to know it's not the magic product other people are making it out to be? I have an understanding of how shit works and I know you do also, but let me clarify my reasoning behind it not working all that well in most cases with an example......

6000lb JKU stuck in mud with both 37" passenger tires buried over the top. Pass side frame is basically on the ground. You pull out a single line and it's a no go so you need to double up. You hook that roller up to your soft shackle after running your winch line through it (we will assume the line is 100% clean and dirt/mud free for sake of arguement) and start to pull. Let's say your pulling 8k of force on that roller. That's 8k lbs of pressure your exerting on a maybe 3" tall (probably less) radius surface that's spinning on a piece of rope that 1/2" wide at best. Abrasion sleeve or not, that is some serious pressure to place on a small area. How can it not damage the soft shackle? Might not be blatantly obvious the first time you use it, but it will get worse with every use no matter what. Its just physics.

Now introduce dirty ass winch rope and/or a dirty soft shackle to the above scenario and tell me how one of the 3 items being used isnt going to wear. Again, I'm not saying it's going to be an instant failure, but it's going to happen. Prove me wrong.
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Old 09-29-2019, 05:13 PM   #63 (permalink)
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I don't see the ring spinning, I see the rope sliding in the groove.
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Old 09-29-2019, 05:26 PM   #64 (permalink)
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I don't see the ring spinning, I see the rope sliding in the groove.

IMO, that's worse. Drag some gritted up rope with 8k lbs of pressure on it over the same section of aluminum for a few feet and I guarantee it will not be smooth in that spot anymore. Winch rope gets dirty, it's a fact of life when your wheeling in most places.


It's not a product for me. I'll stick with my 20k lb capacity snatch block, weight be damned! Lol

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Old 09-29-2019, 05:41 PM   #65 (permalink)
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I think the next trip out I will go out of my way to drag the rope though mud and see if I can fuck something up with either the ring, shackle or rope.

And I will make a note on whether the ring spins or the rope slides around it

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Old 09-29-2019, 06:41 PM   #66 (permalink)
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I bet I find 20 versions of this at SEMA this year! I will try to ask about them.

I use steel cable on my rollbacks, trail rigs, trailer winch and only rope on my race car(because we have too). I have never had a cable fail in the 25 plus years I have been using them. I can not remember how many times my ropes have failed, and I needed them when they did. No time to re-splice so they got knots tied in them.

And yes my Gigglepin will spool in 100 feet in a min or less I am quite sure.
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Old 09-29-2019, 06:58 PM   #67 (permalink)
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And yes my Gigglepin will spool in 100 feet in a min or less I am quite sure.
unloaded or moderate load?

either way, damn nice
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Old 09-29-2019, 07:01 PM   #68 (permalink)
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Do you pull a 90* angle on your fairlead normally?
pretty often, winch line runs on my fairlead at some angle nearly always.
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Old 09-30-2019, 03:14 AM   #69 (permalink)
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seem there is big friction penalty

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8EhHdv4QYg
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Old 09-30-2019, 06:19 AM   #70 (permalink)
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Good video, It was painfull to see how slow those winches pull. Have they not heard of a 8274?

I can not wait for one of those aluminum rollers to break free and come back at the person winching!
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Old 09-30-2019, 06:21 AM   #71 (permalink)
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unloaded or moderate load?

either way, damn nice
In cab video showed 3 mph winching up sand hill. Not sure what that equates to in ft per min, too lazy to do the math!
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Old 09-30-2019, 06:48 AM   #72 (permalink)
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I suppose it would work in a pinch but I don't see any great advantage. Is anyone really concerned about the small difference in weight? In my mind, it needs to be about double the diameter.
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Old 09-30-2019, 07:20 AM   #73 (permalink)
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Do you pull a 90* angle on your fairlead normally?
Any pull that is not straight out the fairlead leaves bits of rope on the fairleads. We see it all the time.
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Old 09-30-2019, 07:22 AM   #74 (permalink)
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This conversation reminds me of the conversations people had when they first started using synthetic rope on their winches.
No doubt, eh?
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Old 09-30-2019, 07:29 AM   #75 (permalink)
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Do I really need to buy one to know it's not the magic product other people are making it out to be? I have an understanding of how shit works and I know you do also, but let me clarify my reasoning behind it not working all that well in most cases with an example......

6000lb JKU stuck in mud with both 37" passenger tires buried over the top. Pass side frame is basically on the ground. You pull out a single line and it's a no go so you need to double up. You hook that roller up to your soft shackle after running your winch line through it (we will assume the line is 100% clean and dirt/mud free for sake of arguement) and start to pull. Let's say your pulling 8k of force on that roller. That's 8k lbs of pressure your exerting on a maybe 3" tall (probably less) radius surface that's spinning on a piece of rope that 1/2" wide at best. Abrasion sleeve or not, that is some serious pressure to place on a small area. How can it not damage the soft shackle? Might not be blatantly obvious the first time you use it, but it will get worse with every use no matter what. Its just physics.

Now introduce dirty ass winch rope and/or a dirty soft shackle to the above scenario and tell me how one of the 3 items being used isnt going to wear. Again, I'm not saying it's going to be an instant failure, but it's going to happen. Prove me wrong.
It is up to the rigger to use what will work best for the situation at hand. I've used a simple bow shackle and rock strap as a snatch block many times in JV to pull the top of a high centered rig up and over enough to drive off the rock. Put the rope through the shackle, pin gets both ends of the rock strap, pull away. It is a low load and too small of a radius for much else but it does and has worked many times without damage to the line. I would not use the same rigging for a doubled line pull back to the bumper.

I suspect your scenario would likely be nicer to the ring since that may induce enough friction from the dirt to get it to turn on the soft shackle.
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