Mounting the BIG Michelins on narrow split ring wheels - success! - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum
 
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Old 08-16-2004, 10:33 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Mounting the BIG Michelins on narrow split ring wheels - success!

First off, I know. Split rings are dangerous. However, I'm finding that you can use three easy applications of 1/8" 6011, you can "convert" split rings to one piece rims... sortof. I'm still figuring this stuff out so who knows how successful I am.

Anyway, onto the mounting story. I have these 52" XL's that I want to mount on some M35 rims, which are common as and which I found for $35 a wheel - score! These are mil wheels that usually take 9.00r20 or 11.00r20, and which are nominally 6.5" wide wheels. Well, the 16.00r20 Michelin XL's are rated for a 10.0" wheel. That's alot of gap to make up. I had planned to drive onto the wheels with a couple of rigs to push the sidewall down, but man, am I glad I took these to a shop.

The first tire store I took this to in Boulder just was like "no." TDS up in NorCo on I-25 and Hwy 66 was like "Maybe". When I got there, they said, "probably not" but "we'll try one". It took suspending the wheel up on a huge wood block, their big tire grabber boom on their service truck pushing the sidewall down, and 3 guys (myself included) working on the ring-side bead, but we got all four meats mounted - I don't think I'll worry about the spare right now.

Anyway, here was the trick - first, get the wheel oriented to the stem and drop it in there. Then, flip the wheel over and suspend it on anything with a big base - we used a wood block with the same dimensions of a cinderblock. Then, use something akin to a forklift (and maybe some blocks for centering purposes) to press down on the sidewall. Also, we used lube, and lots of it, which really helped. This figures since I've found that anytime you're putting something where it doesn't belong....

The tough part is getting the fatty michelin bead over the grooves on the wheel. Moreover, the more you press down on the sidewall, the more the bead rolls over and so there's a balance here between compression and bead straightness. I suppose that you could take some of the square edge off the sidewall inside with a grinder, which might let the sidewall slide down easier over the inside of the rim. Again, lube is your friend, but you'll still need heaps of hammering and some serious tire levers.

Anyway, after the split rings are all welded on (got one done) and the beads are all sat (which will be scary as!), I figure some lag screws will work right nice as rim screws.

I haven't had my coffee yet today so this might not make any sense, so if anyone has any questions, I'll wait till I've had my cuppa and clarify if need be.

Good luck and beware the split rim,
Bob
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Old 08-16-2004, 11:15 AM   #2 (permalink)
 
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worthless without some pics explaining what the fawk you just said.
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Old 08-16-2004, 12:04 PM   #3 (permalink)
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If you have split ring wheels, then you know what I'm talking about. This isn't so much a how-to for 2 piece rims as it is a can-do for this combo of wheels and tires (along with a forklift or similar implement).

Split rim tech:
http://www.ebroadcast.com.au/ecars/Wheels/Split.html

Cheers
Bob
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Old 08-16-2004, 02:43 PM   #4 (permalink)
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i know what you are talking about, imagine doing that in the field, even with 11.00rx20 tires. Have had to use a hmmwv more than a few times to bust a bead on the old tires. Need a few tires spoons and a BFH..
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Old 08-16-2004, 03:44 PM   #5 (permalink)
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... which is why you can see why they call the 2-piece bolt together ones "combat wheels"!

Bob
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Old 08-16-2004, 04:06 PM   #6 (permalink)
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do I dare ask what they charged you Bob? Bet they were glat when you left
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Old 08-16-2004, 05:19 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Dude it was only about twice of what a normal light duty mount/balance would be and MEGA cheap compared to making or purchasing custom wheels. The short answer is no, I didn't have to use the hand throttle after being charged an arm and a leg.

Time to go play in the garage
Bob
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Old 08-16-2004, 05:26 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trango
Dude it was only about twice of what a normal light duty mount/balance would be and MEGA cheap compared to making or purchasing custom wheels. The short answer is no, I didn't have to use the hand throttle after being charged an arm and a leg.

Time to go play in the garage
Bob

Could you please look for my nuts near the bed of the duece? I believe I blew them out lifting those tires into the back of the deuce. Your friend.
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Old 08-16-2004, 05:52 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prerunner1982
i know what you are talking about, imagine doing that in the field, even with 11.00rx20 tires. Have had to use a hmmwv more than a few times to bust a bead on the old tires. Need a few tires spoons and a BFH..
All you need is a bead breaker and some diesel. I've broken down some very rusty rims with no problem at all. All I use is the bead breaker and two prybars to get the ring off. Tire spoons are for tubeless tires.
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Old 08-17-2004, 10:23 AM   #10 (permalink)
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well without compressed air, a bead breaker is pretty worthless. guess that is what i get for being a weekend warrior. The military has some pretty nice and large spoons for them not to be used on tubed tires. what am i going to use them on 2 piece hmmwv wheels? i hightly doubt they would spend that kind of money on spoons to just use on 3/4 ton trailer tires.
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Old 08-17-2004, 11:10 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prerunner1982
well without compressed air, a bead breaker is pretty worthless. guess that is what i get for being a weekend warrior. The military has some pretty nice and large spoons for them not to be used on tubed tires. what am i going to use them on 2 piece hmmwv wheels? i hightly doubt they would spend that kind of money on spoons to just use on 3/4 ton trailer tires.
You don't need spoons for a split rim, a tire iron and a hammer with a beak is all you need. I had no idea this thing ran on compressed air, other than me huffing and puffing.

http://www.kentool.com/Wedge_DBBW.htm

A little diesel, crowbar for the ring, and a few correctly placed whacks...
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Old 08-17-2004, 01:50 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Logjam-grant
You don't need spoons for a split rim, a tire iron and a hammer with a beak is all you need. I had no idea this thing ran on compressed air, other than me huffing and puffing.

http://www.kentool.com/Wedge_DBBW.htm

A little diesel, crowbar for the ring, and a few correctly placed whacks...
He is probably talking about a bead setter which is a air tank that blast air in between the tire and rim to set the bead.

Im sure you already know this but be very careful when inflating those tires. You said you weldedthe rings on but the welds could break and thats not good. Ive seen split rings pop off while being inflated and its not something I want to relive.
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Old 08-17-2004, 01:57 PM   #13 (permalink)
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well the military (atleast my unit wont get them) doesnt issue those so i am not familiar with them. The one we have that runs off compressed air works wonders, but they shut our Maintance shop down and we have yet to get the parts for our portable compressor. The last duece tire i had to break down took atleast 8 guys, (including 2 e-6s with 20+years each) wearing themselves out beathing the life out of the tire and about 2 dozen time running over it with a hmmwv while 2 guys used spoons/pry bars to bust the SOB. Maybe you just havent had a tire that could test your method. But... to each their own.. whatever works for you.
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Old 08-17-2004, 02:12 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Its for setting the bead once you get the new tire mounted. To bust the bead we use anaything from bead mallets to driving over then with dump trucks

Quote:
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well the military (atleast my unit wont get them) doesnt issue those so i am not familiar with them. The one we have that runs off compressed air works wonders, but they shut our Maintance shop down and we have yet to get the parts for our portable compressor. The last duece tire i had to break down took atleast 8 guys, (including 2 e-6s with 20+years each) wearing themselves out beathing the life out of the tire and about 2 dozen time running over it with a hmmwv while 2 guys used spoons/pry bars to bust the SOB. Maybe you just havent had a tire that could test your method. But... to each their own.. whatever works for you.
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Old 08-17-2004, 02:17 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTOffroader
He is probably talking about a bead setter which is a air tank that blast air in between the tire and rim to set the bead.

Im sure you already know this but be very careful when inflating those tires. You said you weldedthe rings on but the welds could break and thats not good. Ive seen split rings pop off while being inflated and its not something I want to relive.
actually what i was referring something like this, hopefully it works..

Last edited by Prerunner1982; 08-17-2004 at 03:52 PM.
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Old 08-17-2004, 02:31 PM   #16 (permalink)
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actually what i was referring to has a wedge you knock between the wheel and tire and when operated 2 fingers of the wedge push down on the tire while 1 finger holds onto the rim. something like this, hopefully it works..
Ok, Ive seen those used and they work quite well. My boss was too cheap to buy one. He would rather me and one other guy beat on a tire for 2 days insted of buying one of those.
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Old 08-17-2004, 03:50 PM   #17 (permalink)
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of course without the compressor working, the bead breaker make a great.......chock block..
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Old 08-17-2004, 05:48 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prerunner1982
well the military (atleast my unit wont get them) doesnt issue those so i am not familiar with them. The one we have that runs off compressed air works wonders, but they shut our Maintance shop down and we have yet to get the parts for our portable compressor. The last duece tire i had to break down took atleast 8 guys, (including 2 e-6s with 20+years each) wearing themselves out beathing the life out of the tire and about 2 dozen time running over it with a hmmwv while 2 guys used spoons/pry bars to bust the SOB. Maybe you just havent had a tire that could test your method. But... to each their own.. whatever works for you.
You're right, and its impossible for us to come to an understanding as to the extreme of our individual tire dismounting efforts. I'll share a brief experience of mine.

I live in a costal city and bought a few military tires on rims. They looked like spares from the 70s, ran until flat bald and dumped. I took the tire to school and FLATTENED it out with a loader forklift. We rotated it and coutinued to smash this tire to the floor like it was a pancake. I took one to a tire guy in town who worked out of his house. All he did was spray some diesel on it and swing one of those beak bead brakers at it (I know it says not to do that...). The thing popped off after a minute or two. Amazing how easy it was. Thats how I've done it ever since. It will seem like the tire isn't moving at all, but I just keep working around it until finally it starts to come.

Pictures would be cool. Did you do any other modifications to the rim like flip the center?
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Old 08-18-2004, 11:30 AM   #19 (permalink)
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i will have to try the diesel trick next time, you just pour some around where the wheel and tire meet huh?


of course what might have led to the tire being such a PITA to get off, is the fact we were doing wheelies with the duece the day prior.

Last edited by Prerunner1982; 08-18-2004 at 11:34 AM.
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Old 08-18-2004, 03:25 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I think the diesel is just there to lubricate the hammer as it swings down. Otherwise the bead and sidewall get all scuffed. Aim too high and you hit the ring and your hands hurt. Aim too low and the beak boucnes off.
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