check out this Dana 70 front - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum
 
Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum  

Go Back   Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum > General Tech > General 4x4 Discussion
Notices

Reply
 
Share LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-25-2002, 09:54 PM   #1 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Member # 1476
Posts: 482
check out this Dana 70 front

closed knuckle 70 thanks to Dave Bergerson
Attached Images
 

Last edited by livermore2; 01-26-2002 at 11:03 AM.
livermore2 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-25-2002, 09:57 PM   #2 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Member # 2521
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 979
old Dodge? Low spline count? D44 U-joints?
Looks purty, somebody must be fixing the weak links
Slagburn is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Old 01-25-2002, 09:58 PM   #3 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Member # 1476
Posts: 482
tracta joints

these are Tracta Joints, no their not u-joints and no their not big birfs either
Attached Images
 
livermore2 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-25-2002, 09:59 PM   #4 (permalink)
Registered User
 
road1will's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Member # 8871
Location: Cleveland Tennessee
Posts: 2,209
Send a message via AIM to road1will
yeah those are strong. what truck did that axle come out of?
road1will is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-25-2002, 10:01 PM   #5 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Member # 1476
Posts: 482
here is a 44 next to this 70

now look very closely at the size difference
Attached Images
 
livermore2 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-25-2002, 10:02 PM   #6 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Member # 6708
Location: Vallejo, CA
Posts: 1,316
Can you unlock the Hubs or are they a fixed hub plate?

Looks like there are no roller bearings, how does it deal with friction when the steering is full left/right?

Looks BIG

Eric
__________________
'There will be pork in the tree tops by morning!'-Lion in Winter.

'Dear,dear.....what ever shall we do with mother.'-Lion in Winter.

"Mr. President, We must not allow, a mine shaft gap!"-Gen. 'Buck' Turgidson
'Do you expect me to talk Goldfinger?' 'No Mr. Bond, I expect you to Die!'
Alpo is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-25-2002, 10:22 PM   #7 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Member # 14
Posts: 1,479
Re: here is a 44 next to this 70

Quote:
Originally posted by mossberg
now look very closely at the size difference
What are you comparing it to there, a 60 shaft??
Cliffy [JD] is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-25-2002, 10:23 PM   #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Hayraker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Member # 5946
Location: At your place, going thru your stuff.
Posts: 2,176
Looks like they would be super strong as long as you always drove in a straight line, maybe weak when you cut the wheels. If anybody else wants something like that, skeetshooter has a big ass Napco front with the same tracta joints.
__________________
I.R.B.S.T.M.


Hayraker is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-25-2002, 10:29 PM   #9 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Member # 2757
Location: EDH, CALI
Posts: 2,159
Yo moss, is that for your Yota bro? SAWWWEEEEET
__________________
ESREVER NI EVIRD
SMART ASS is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-25-2002, 10:35 PM   #10 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Member # 1476
Posts: 482
Quote:
Originally posted by VeloCJ
old Dodge? Low spline count? D44 U-joints?
Looks purty, somebody must be fixing the weak links
yes old Dodge but it has no u-joints!
livermore2 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-25-2002, 10:39 PM   #11 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Member # 1476
Posts: 482
Quote:
Originally posted by MeenGreen63
yeah those are strong. what truck did that axle come out of?
came out of a 2 1/2 ton Dodge 4x4 driller/concrete buster, this thing has never seen the street, it was trailered from jobsite to jobsite.
livermore2 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-25-2002, 10:43 PM   #12 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Member # 1476
Posts: 482
Quote:
Originally posted by Alpo23
Can you unlock the Hubs or are they a fixed hub plate?

Looks like there are no roller bearings, how does it deal with friction when the steering is full left/right?

Looks BIG

Eric
yes it has warn hubs just like a 60, the main and stub axles rest on bronze bushings, there are no bearing in the tracta joint, just thick meaty slabs of steel
livermore2 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-25-2002, 11:29 PM   #13 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Member # 347
Location: Fair Oaks, CA
Posts: 9,587
Re: here is a 44 next to this 70

now look very closely at the size difference
Ok... so a 44 is smaller than a 70? Whod-a-thunk?

Ya gotta give us a picture that makes better sense, too. Show us a shot into the mouth of the Tracta joint, with a Dana 60 u-joint uncapped for reference... I'm curious about the difference in cross-sectional mass, 4 trunions vs. (effectively) two plates. Tough to compare 'em, actually, since the Tracta engages from the pivot of the joint on out on one axis, and from the 'caps' on in on the other... and a u-joint engages at the caps, with a secondary pivot across the center of the joint's cast body.

Don't get me wrong -- a seventy is a sweet axle, but the closed-knuckle 70s are a compromise over the open knuckles, both in turning radius and most likely, ultimate strength. When you break the axles, drop in a Spicer-style set of axles and u-joints.

Randii
__________________
[B]
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
[/B]... you pick up after your dog, so clean up after YOU, too.[I][SIZE="1"]
- [B]VIRTUAL RALLY[/B] for the HAMMER TRAILS in JOHNSON VALLEY
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

- [B]VIRTUAL RALLY[/B] for TELLICO
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
and
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

- [B]KOH Pledge Drive:[/B] for
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
[/SIZE][/I]
randii is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-26-2002, 01:54 AM   #14 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Member # 7646
Location: New Westminster B.C. Canada
Posts: 5,213
Ok so how does that tractor joint work??? I cant picture it working like how I can with a norem U joint
__________________
85 suzuki sj 410, 82 suzuki sj 410 pickup 68 IH pickup, 78 Scout II
76 Scoutt II turbo 345 propane
Chief yelling alot is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-26-2002, 05:30 AM   #15 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Member # 1476
Posts: 482
Re: Re: here is a 44 next to this 70

Quote:
Originally posted by randii
now look very closely at the size difference
Ok... so a 44 is smaller than a 70? Whod-a-thunk?

Ya gotta give us a picture that makes better sense, too. Show us a shot into the mouth of the Tracta joint, with a Dana 60 u-joint uncapped for reference... I'm curious about the difference in cross-sectional mass, 4 trunions vs. (effectively) two plates. Tough to compare 'em, actually, since the Tracta engages from the pivot of the joint on out on one axis, and from the 'caps' on in on the other... and a u-joint engages at the caps, with a secondary pivot across the center of the joint's cast body.

Don't get me wrong -- a seventy is a sweet axle, but the closed-knuckle 70s are a compromise over the open knuckles, both in turning radius and most likely, ultimate strength. When you break the axles, drop in a Spicer-style set of axles and u-joints.

Randii
Scott Kurtzer, a good friend of mine (who Mike Schaffer used to work for) says these are much stronger than a 60 U-joint. if a 60 was stronger beleive me i would use one. 60s are much easerier to find than these. these joints were VERY expensive for Dana to build, they were hand carved on a lath, unlike a 60 joint. thats why they didnt make too many if them. i dont think i will be breaking these joints but if i do i also have a set of spares and i will make the same joint next time out of 4140. i wont be running 60 style u-joints anytime soon! i only had a 44 lying around to compare the size so you can get an idea of the strenth of this joint.
livermore2 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-26-2002, 09:52 AM   #16 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Member # 6708
Location: Vallejo, CA
Posts: 1,316
What are the spline counts for the shafts inner and outer?

Eric
__________________
'There will be pork in the tree tops by morning!'-Lion in Winter.

'Dear,dear.....what ever shall we do with mother.'-Lion in Winter.

"Mr. President, We must not allow, a mine shaft gap!"-Gen. 'Buck' Turgidson
'Do you expect me to talk Goldfinger?' 'No Mr. Bond, I expect you to Die!'
Alpo is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-26-2002, 09:56 AM   #17 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Member # 1476
Posts: 482
on this front the spline count is 23 inner and outer and on the rear axle its 35
livermore2 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-26-2002, 10:07 AM   #18 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Member # 6708
Location: Vallejo, CA
Posts: 1,316
ok, since it's obviouse the pitch is courser than the D-60 what is the diameter of the shafts? being courser I can't get a mental image of relative size. I would hope it is at least as big of a shaft as the D-60 or you wouldn't be going through the trouble of puting this under a Toy
You got your own mill for making those steering arms or did you have to use one that a friend had?Just curiouse, I work as a machinest.

Eric
__________________
'There will be pork in the tree tops by morning!'-Lion in Winter.

'Dear,dear.....what ever shall we do with mother.'-Lion in Winter.

"Mr. President, We must not allow, a mine shaft gap!"-Gen. 'Buck' Turgidson
'Do you expect me to talk Goldfinger?' 'No Mr. Bond, I expect you to Die!'
Alpo is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-26-2002, 11:02 AM   #19 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Member # 1476
Posts: 482
shafts are 1 1/2'' same as a 60. the lathe belongs to Dave Bergerson. he is the master mind behind this whole project!
livermore2 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-26-2002, 01:50 PM   #20 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Member # 347
Location: Fair Oaks, CA
Posts: 9,587
Re: Re: Re: here is a 44 next to this 70

...these are much stronger than a 60 U-joint.
Well, I disagree, but I have only held the parts in my hand and compared them visually... I haven't run them. It'll be interesting to see how they hold up for you. Older Toyota Cruisers used a similar technology in their axle joints, and those were weaker than the same size Birfield, and coarse-splined, to boot.

these joints were VERY expensive for Dana to build, they were hand carved on a lath, unlike a 60 joint.
Ummm.... that's a comment on the production process, to me, more than the strength.

i dont think i will be breaking these joints but if i do i also have a set of spares and i will make the same joint next time out of 4140. i wont be running 60 style u-joints anytime soon!
If you go through these like most of us go through Birfields, be prepared to get some ribbing!

Props to you, though, for trying to do something a bit different than the crowd of folks going after those stylish 60's or Rockwells.

Randii
randii is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-26-2002, 04:52 PM   #21 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Member # 6708
Location: Vallejo, CA
Posts: 1,316
Quote:
Originally posted by mossberg
shafts are 1 1/2'' same as a 60. the lathe belongs to Dave Bergerson. he is the master mind behind this whole project!
Master mind or Lunatic ?

Eric
__________________
'There will be pork in the tree tops by morning!'-Lion in Winter.

'Dear,dear.....what ever shall we do with mother.'-Lion in Winter.

"Mr. President, We must not allow, a mine shaft gap!"-Gen. 'Buck' Turgidson
'Do you expect me to talk Goldfinger?' 'No Mr. Bond, I expect you to Die!'
Alpo is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-27-2002, 11:06 PM   #22 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Member # 1476
Posts: 482
t

[QUOTE]Originally posted by randii
Older Toyota Cruisers used a similar technology in their axle joints, and those were weaker than the same size Birfield, and coarse-splined, to boot.


are you sure you were holding a 70 and not a 44 or 60? how many times do i have to say these are nothing klike a 44 or 60 setup the toyota LC had a joint that looked like a close knuckle 44 or 60. nothing like this! i woulnt run a closed knuckle 60 if you paid me! those things are WEAK
livermore2 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-28-2002, 01:58 AM   #23 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Member # 5790
Location: New Braunfels TX
Posts: 810
I would run them if you paid me!!!! it just depends how much
jeeper111 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-28-2002, 02:11 AM   #24 (permalink)
Zeus of the Sluice
 
fcfred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Member # 3263
Location: not portland
Posts: 3,150
mossberg,
how come you're running 23 spline inners and outers?
it seems that if you're going to the trouble of getting custom shafts you should be able to upgrade to 35 splines
or don't they make a 35 spline side gears for a 70?

maybe the current shafts are from dana and the custom ones out ouf 4140 will be 35 spl?

i think your axle is bad-ass and I would trade my 60 for it any day
lets see more pics!

tractas are dope!
__________________
Team Tank
old junk, new junk, unfinished junk
Live Large-RIP Jason Payne

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
fcfred is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-28-2002, 09:00 PM   #25 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Member # 1476
Posts: 482
i dont have the $ for custom shafts, i have to run stock for now. but if and when i break i will use 4340!
livermore2 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

** A VERIFICATION EMAIL IS SENT TO THIS ADDRESS TO COMPLETE REGISTRATION!! **

Email Address:
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:28 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.