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Old 09-13-2004, 09:00 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Another Rear Steer Question...

I know there has bbeen many threads on this topic, I've been searching Pirate for the last hour, saving a bunch of threads into my "Favorites" on internet.
Enough with the BS... here are my questions...

I want to convert a front dana 60 (low pinion) into rear steer for the back of my k5. my question is, will the dana 60 hold up to a 5500LBS (approx) k5? How much will it cost to recenter the axle so it lines up with my ford 205? Will I have to get custom axle shafts made to work with the centered pinion? Will anything else have to be custom made to work? how much would it cost to get it set-up (excluding the cost of a 1000$ full hydro) if the price started at 1000 for a stock front dana 60?

Most of these questions weren't answered in the threads I read. There will be most q's as I read more threads. Thanks

future specs of the k5:
454 with .060" overbore, th-400 with reverse manual valve body, gmnp203/ford205 (ORD custom doubler) front axle: ford hi pinion dana 60. full cage, 56" and 63" springs, etc. if I need to suply more info that is needed involving rear steer, tell me.
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Old 09-13-2004, 10:21 PM   #2 (permalink)
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if you run rear steer in a 5500 pound blazer and you are gonna add a 454, then some things I recommend

get the best gears you can afford cheap ring and pinions will break

get at the very least some chromoly axles, and ctm or better u-joints if you plan on wheeling it

yes you will need custom axle shafts
and custom tubes
and lots of other custom parts
if you want the rear axle to be centered

here is another option:

get a transfercase that has an offset rear output such as a landrover or the new landcruiser case offered from advanced adaptors, then figure out how to run it up side down so you don't need to change the front or rear axle at all and can have both driveshafts run down the driver's side

then you could run a low pinion chevy 60 in the rear, and the high pinion ford in the front.

you'll break stock axles if you play hard, but they will be replacable for a while until you can afford some chromoly replacements in stock sizes.
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Old 09-13-2004, 10:49 PM   #3 (permalink)
 
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have you looked at rockwells?
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Old 09-14-2004, 07:16 PM   #4 (permalink)
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"get the best gears you can afford cheap ring and pinions will break

get at the very least some chromoly axles, and ctm or better u-joints if you plan on wheeling it

yes you will need custom axle shafts
and custom tubes
and lots of other custom parts
if you want the rear axle to be centered"

Yeah I plan on getting the best gears I can find when I am at that point. Who makes makes chromoly axles? I am planning on running the best u-joints I can find, as long as they arent priced as gold.

Where can I get the custom axle shafts and other parts?
I'm pretty stuck on the ford np205, so I do plan on recentering it.

Yeah I have looked at rockwells, but parts for them are very expensive, and they are heavy.

Also, is it possible it use a cutting brake combined with rear steer?
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Old 09-14-2004, 07:23 PM   #5 (permalink)
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yes you can use cutting brakes with rear steer

look into the transfercase from a 1995 to 2001 range rover they have front and rear driver's side out put, I don't know how strong they are, but I would wager it's cheaper to adapt to it than to build custom axles, plus then you won't need custom shafts
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Old 09-14-2004, 07:30 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I dont really like the idea of using the land rover transfercase because the availibility of parts, compared to a ford 205, and I doubt it will be as strong as the 205.
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Old 09-14-2004, 07:44 PM   #7 (permalink)
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the rover tcase is an lt230.
very strong, 3.0/1 FACTORY reduction not a retarded 2/1.
i have seen these hold up just fine in 5k+ rigs with 454s in them.
strong as a 205? i don't know, but i do know they are not weak, and cost less than 1k$ for a unit. not hard to find, just because it is not in the us, does not make it hard to find....there are plenty of us sources for these import parts.
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Old 09-14-2004, 08:19 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fcfred
... and ctm or better u-joints if you plan on wheeling it
Want to give me the name of the company that produces these?
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Old 09-14-2004, 08:22 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Does his rear driveshaft really have to line up?
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Old 09-14-2004, 08:30 PM   #10 (permalink)
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NO...not perfectly. It prolly wouldn't like the freeway though with a stock offset front axle and a centered output at the transfercase!
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Old 09-14-2004, 09:23 PM   #11 (permalink)
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the lt-230 is passenger side drop, I don't know what is in the 95 to 01 range rovers, but I don't think it's an lt-230. as for being as strong as a 205, I don't know that either, but it may be.

Wolf, I don't know of a u-joint stronger than the ctm's but I'm not saying there isn't one, so you can roll your eyes out and look for some, thanks

What I can see is that this guy's worried about cost, and swapping in a rear steer axle that will hold up to big block power and has a centered diff aint gonna be cheap. I would vote for this option

get 14 bolt
put inner axle seals in it
get some end forgings and knuckles
build custom inner axle shafts (maybe superior will cut them for you)
install ctm's
use stock stubs and stuff from the 60-hubs

sell the 60 housing
the 14 bolt is stronger than the 60, only down fall is the lower pinion and g.c., but with rear steer hopefully you can steer around those tall rocks
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Old 09-14-2004, 09:31 PM   #12 (permalink)
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so use a 14bff housing and convert it for the rear steering, get custom shafts built by superior, use stock dana 60 hubs, get some end forgings and knuckles-would dedenbear knuckles work? and thats all I would need to do to match the ford 205? has anyone done this before? Im not the best at fabrication, etc. so I don't want to get into a project, and not have anyone to ask exactly what i could do...
aaah... owning a 4x4...nothing is simple

I would like to use the dana 60 though because of the lower gears, the 14bff stops at 5.13, when the dana axles go higher.

I dont know. help me guys!
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Old 09-14-2004, 09:32 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I bet a good CV shaft could take the compound angle if it's not too crazy, just might wear out fast and need new joints.
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Old 09-14-2004, 09:41 PM   #14 (permalink)
 
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it isn't that much money to just do it right and recenter the rear 60. Superior axle makes custom length axles I believe or CTM, but be prepared to spend $2000+ on shafts and u-joints.

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Old 09-14-2004, 09:41 PM   #15 (permalink)
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no, I don't know of anyone who had done the rear steer 14 bolt, so you would be learning things. hmmm

can I ask, are you gonna drive this on the street?
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Old 09-14-2004, 09:42 PM   #16 (permalink)
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why do you want rear steer? you already have a way short truck by starting with a blazer
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Old 09-14-2004, 09:54 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I think Pyro, on here did a rear steer 14 bolt. Might try a search. I don't know how hard it would be to put inner axle seals in a rear end If it's what I think than it would be cheaper and simpler to just re-tube one side of your front axle and cut down the other side!
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Old 09-15-2004, 08:29 AM   #18 (permalink)
 
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the wacky willy's from top truck challenge last year had a rear steer 14bolt. I would just put a Dana 70 in, it has a big ring and pinion and uses all the same gears as the 60.

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Old 09-15-2004, 08:55 AM   #19 (permalink)
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personally, from the questions you are asking, i think you are getting in waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyy over your head.

sell it, buy a ricer.
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Old 09-15-2004, 03:06 PM   #20 (permalink)
 
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Man looks like a rockwell is the best (cheepest) way to go

it is easy to center easy to rear steer

break kits on ebay cheep

the weight is only 150 lbs diffrent than a 60

You can do it your self to no machine shop need to build custom stuff
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Old 09-15-2004, 03:37 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bansheeman1
Man looks like a rockwell is the best (cheepest) way to go

it is easy to center easy to rear steer

break kits on ebay cheep

the weight is only 150 lbs diffrent than a 60

You can do it your self to no machine shop need to build custom stuff
as much as i hate cockwell's, i agree with this theory, the 60 with CTM shaft's is going to be at it's limits!
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Old 09-15-2004, 04:40 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sceep
personally, from the questions you are asking, i think you are getting in waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyy over your head.

sell it, buy a ricer.
Well, I agree with the first part. I don't think you've read anything on this yet and I don't think you know enough to jump in head first. Either pay someone to do it or go with rockwells.
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Old 09-15-2004, 09:26 PM   #23 (permalink)
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No I don't plan to drive this on the street, it will be trailered.

I never said I was going to start this in a few days or anything... I am still thinking about it. Yeah I admit I haven't read "alot" on it yet, but it will take a long time to understand everything about it instead of asking questions.

I want rear steer because even with the k5 being short wheel based, there are still some spots where it wouild be nice, big tires dont help the steering radius either.

Even if rockwell's are only 150 more pounds than a '60, that adds 300 more pounds onto the 5500 or however much the blazer weighs... I am trying to keep this as light as I can (yeah right, big block, blazer, etc )
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Old 09-15-2004, 09:55 PM   #24 (permalink)
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14bolts have an ugly housing
I miss my d70 housing
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Old 09-15-2004, 09:59 PM   #25 (permalink)
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what you may not be considering is the rockwells will handle about anything you can throw at them and run about what ever tire size you want and or gears too. and with a K5 the extra 300 pounds or so isn't going to matter that much especially with the big block. and they can handle the big block.

the other route will cost you from the get go. through custom parts through out and when you break it it will cost that again. for every part you break

and most of it will be custom.

I vote for the rockwells

I saw a complete set of rockwells online the other day for $1300 way less than your going to spend on a custom recentered 6o with custom shafts and knuckles and stuff ctm joints and what not are real expensive.

and on top of that the whole set up is borderline for the power of the bigblock with big tires.

just my 2 cents

but you better check out the cost of recentering a 60 and rotating the knuckles for the proper caster and for having custom shafts made. then find out what all the ctm joints and stuff are going to cost and add up the costs.

then compare the cost of a broken custom axle to that of a rockwell.
and then do a stregth comparison between the two axles, max tire size,
gear ratios, ring and pinion strengths, knuckle strengths, hp rating.

because what's the point of having a big block unless you can romp on it when you want with out fear of breakage.
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