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Old 09-13-2004, 10:26 PM   #1 (permalink)
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how much tube in your buggy?

im contemplating on building myself a buggy. i can get most all of the drivetrain componets for cheap or free. the way it looks now is a 44 front, dana 53 rear, and either a 4.3/sm420/np205 or a jeep 226/t-90/d18 or even possibly a 4.3/th350/d300. the engine tranny and tcase still arent solid on which i will end up with the best deal for. my plan is for a light, narrow, and small 2 seater, that will mainly be used on the rocks. going to try to shoot for a 2500 pound final weight. i plan on using one link suspension front and rear with coils or 1/4 eliptical rear maybe. i plan on using .25 wall 2x3 square tubing for the main frame rails then build a cage up around the engine and cockpit areas, along with something in the rear to protect the fuel cell. this will not be a comp buggy by any means, just something to trailer and beat on so i dont tear up my DD xj to bad. my question is how little of cage can u get away with and still be safe? because when u look at cj yj and tj cages that people consider to be safe, theres not alot there compared to a buggys cage. which doesnt make sense to me since most buggys are lighter than jeeps. i plan on using 2" tube for the main cage areas like the A and B hoops and in between them, then use 1.75 on most of the rest and most of the bracing and engine and rear cage. so my final questions are, show me some pics of buggys with as little of a cage as u consider safe, and how many feet of tube did u use in your buggy for an idea on materials cost.

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Old 09-13-2004, 11:43 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I built mine with 40ft of 2x3 .120 for the main rails and about 200ft of round 1.5inch hrew it has lots of tie ins and gussets.For the running gear it has 4.3/th350/dana 300(clocked flat)dana 60 front and 14 bolt rear(full width)Im not sure I would build another one with a rectangle frame it seems easier to just go round tube all the way.Heres a pic.
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Old 09-13-2004, 11:58 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Not to hijack this thread - but do you have anymore pictures of that buggy during the buildup?

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Old 09-14-2004, 06:17 AM   #4 (permalink)
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nice buggy, what are u doing for the front? i see airshocks in the rear but dont see anything up front yet? could u tell me the length from the front to back? bottom of frame to top of cage? and the width in the driver/pass compartment? that buggy is sweet, thanks.

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Old 09-14-2004, 07:16 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lankchevy
...my plan is for a light, .... going to try to shoot for a 2500 pound final weight. ... i plan on using .25 wall 2x3 square tubing for the main frame rails .... i plan on using 2" tube for the main cage areas like the A and B hoops and in between them, then use 1.75 on most of the rest and most of the bracing and engine and rear cage....

kolby
Haveing never build a full on buggy (but a few damn nice cages)take this with a grain of salt.

.25 wall rectangle frame is overkill. you can use .120.
2" tube for main structural hoops is overkill. you can use 1.75 x .120
1.75 for the rest is overkill, you can use 1.5 and even 1.25 in places.

i would say, that with my experience in cages, that you are looking at close to 200'(maybee a bit more) for a good, structural, buggy.
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Old 09-14-2004, 07:39 AM   #6 (permalink)
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2500lbs is pretty light. You can check out my design and then the build thread of my new buggy in the Suzuki section. With a Suzuki motor and a Toyota drivetrain my design sits right around 2400lbs in theory. I used 1.62 x .120 Dom for the main structure, 1.5 x .095 and .120 for the braces and some 1" for mounting misc stuff. Even if you cut the tubing used in half I doubt you'd hit 2500 with your drivetrain and the size tubes you want to use. 2,800-3,000lbs would be a better target unless you drastically reduce the tubing sizes and go with a lighter drivetrain.


Edit: Was bored so I ran some numbers. My main frame rails are 90.5" long and weigh approx 15lbs ea, the same length frame rail using your rectangular steel tubing would weigh approx 57lbs ea.
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Last edited by Azrckcrawler; 09-14-2004 at 09:42 AM.
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Old 09-14-2004, 09:32 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lankchevy
nice buggy, what are u doing for the front? i see airshocks in the rear but dont see anything up front yet? could u tell me the length from the front to back? bottom of frame to top of cage? and the width in the driver/pass compartment? that buggy is sweet, thanks.

kolby

If you look real close he has leaves up front.
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Old 09-14-2004, 02:59 PM   #8 (permalink)
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hmm might end up using round stuff for the main frame rails, if what i was thinking about using was overkill, then i will use lighter stuff, which is good to hear since im sure its cheaper. 2500 was what i would like for it to be, im not going to shoot myself if its more, but id like to keep it light as possible.

kolby

didnt see the leafs up there this morning, i was in a hurry and getting ready for school when i typed that, i guess i was looking for another airshock in the front, didnt see it or any other shocks, and just blurted something off.
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Old 09-14-2004, 05:48 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Stupid question, but here we go.

What's a one link set up consist of? Pictures? (Fire extinguisher standing by......)

Just wondering, don't think I've ever seen one before. Always looking to learn something new(bie).


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Old 09-14-2004, 06:14 PM   #10 (permalink)
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i had my chassis built and it is said to weigh in at 350 lbs. 1.75" x .120 wall. i've added maybe 50 lbs to it for mounts, additional bracing, etc. just weighed it and as it sits here, i'm at 3400 lbs. running tbi350, 700r4, 241c, two front hp60's - for what it's worth.

course, those 44's ain't light neither
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Old 09-14-2004, 08:41 PM   #11 (permalink)
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hey rusty, how much tube did u use in ur buggy? and im assuming that everyone is using HREW for there cages, seems like ive read that DOM isnt realy needed and is just more $$.

fubar- do a search on trailer ball suspension, should find enuf to keep u busy. only i plan on using a big JJ instead of a ball and hitch setup.

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Old 09-14-2004, 08:54 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I used about 240ft in my buggy, no box tubing...all round. I think that depending on the design you might be ablt to get it down to 175-200ft, but you really have to design your chassis effeciently to get that goal. My rig is mostly for trail use so I have more tubing in mine than a comp rig would. I actually have to be able to carry camping gear and an ice chest!
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Old 09-14-2004, 09:02 PM   #13 (permalink)
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How much did that chassis cost to buy?
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Old 09-14-2004, 09:52 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Thanks Kolby
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Old 09-14-2004, 10:03 PM   #15 (permalink)
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hmm well i got to thinking about it, and remebered that i didnt think russ hogans buggy on mogs/49s had very much tube in it. ive watched it up close a few times now and i realy like it, seems like it would save a TON of weight and $$. the latter doesnt grow on trees in my neck of the woods either. heres a link to a pic of his buggy.

http://hogansoffroad.com/modules.php...orderby=titleA

another

http://hogansoffroad.com/modules.php...orderby=titleA

and if u have ever seen this buggy it is amazing, it walks over pretty much ANYTHING it wants to down in disney. my only question is how safe would this cage be in a slow speed roll? this will never see any kind of road speeds whatsoever and the only kind of roll it would ever see would be a slow one.

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Old 09-14-2004, 10:16 PM   #16 (permalink)
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That thing is INSANE!
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Old 09-14-2004, 10:55 PM   #17 (permalink)
 
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I have about 100 feet in mine right now and have about another 40 feet at the most to add to it.It is all 1 3/4" .120 hrew.I added up the metal you were talking about using and you are looking at around 450 lbs for your chassis I figured.Right now my chassi weigh's 211.67 on the scale.


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Old 09-14-2004, 11:19 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lankchevy
hey rusty, how much tube did u use in ur buggy? and im assuming that everyone is using HREW for there cages, seems like ive read that DOM isnt realy needed and is just more $$.

fubar- do a search on trailer ball suspension, should find enuf to keep u busy. only i plan on using a big JJ instead of a ball and hitch setup.

kolby
X-chassis
138.52ft
288.1 lbs
plus sub-frame

DOM is best but HREW works just fine too.
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Old 09-14-2004, 11:23 PM   #19 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Air Ride
X-chassis
138.52ft
288.1 lbs
plus sub-frame

DOM is best but HREW works just fine too.
Hey Air Ride you guys make some nice cages...
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Old 09-15-2004, 08:25 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lankchevy
hmm well i got to thinking about it, and remebered that i didnt think russ hogans buggy on mogs/49s had very much tube in it. ive watched it up close a few times now and i realy like it, seems like it would save a TON of weight and $$. the latter doesnt grow on trees in my neck of the woods either. heres a link to a pic of his buggy.

http://hogansoffroad.com/modules.php...orderby=titleA

another

http://hogansoffroad.com/modules.php...orderby=titleA

and if u have ever seen this buggy it is amazing, it walks over pretty much ANYTHING it wants to down in disney. my only question is how safe would this cage be in a slow speed roll? this will never see any kind of road speeds whatsoever and the only kind of roll it would ever see would be a slow one.

kolby
That cage looks like it needs some cross bracing. For those posting their chassis weights, shouldn't all the bars required to mount everything be counted? I don't see link mounts, coilover mounts, dash bars, fuel cell mounts on some of these chassis's. Just wondering what constitutes a chassis in everyone mind because I doubt you can make one under 300lbs without going super thin walled tubing which from what I have seen doesn't last long if you play rough.
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Old 09-15-2004, 08:34 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lankchevy
. my only question is how safe would this cage be in a slow speed roll? this will never see any kind of road speeds whatsoever and the only kind of roll it would ever see would be a slow one.

while that rig definatly looks cool as all hell, that cage looks waaaaaaaaaay, sub-par for the weight/mass hes dragging around.

and your line about never seeing anything but a slow roll is crap.

some of those climbs in disney are HUGE. Imagine what would happen if it flopped, at the top of one of those large climbs, and that mass got to flopping down hill. 2-3x over, turns a realatively slow roll, into one fast, hurting, mo-fo.
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Old 09-15-2004, 10:27 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
That cage looks like it needs some cross bracing. For those posting their chassis weights, shouldn't all the bars required to mount everything be counted? I don't see link mounts, coilover mounts, dash bars, fuel cell mounts on some of these chassis's. Just wondering what constitutes a chassis in everyone mind because I doubt you can make one under 300lbs without going super thin walled tubing which from what I have seen doesn't last long if you play rough.
My 240ft includes every bit of tubing I had to put on there, fuel cell mount, shock mounts framing for cargo floor. Actually I have about about 20 ft left to bend up still so I'm at 220ft right now. Mine chassis is no ultra-light weight that's for sure. 2.25lbs per ft at 240 ft and I'm easily over 500lbs, but it's all .140 wall.
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Old 09-15-2004, 11:03 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lankchevy
hey rusty, how much tube did u use in ur buggy? and im assuming that everyone is using HREW for there cages, seems like ive read that DOM isnt realy needed and is just more $$.

fubar- do a search on trailer ball suspension, should find enuf to keep u busy. only i plan on using a big JJ instead of a ball and hitch setup.

kolby

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim84K10
How much did that chassis cost to buy?

======================

they are computer designed space frame technology chassis. give him a call. mike's great to deal with. understand, he does tend to be quite busy though.



http://www.hendrixmotorsports.com/_wsn/page2.html



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Old 09-15-2004, 12:33 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by desertCJ
My 240ft includes every bit of tubing I had to put on there, fuel cell mount, shock mounts framing for cargo floor. Actually I have about about 20 ft left to bend up still so I'm at 220ft right now. Mine chassis is no ultra-light weight that's for sure. 2.25lbs per ft at 240 ft and I'm easily over 500lbs, but it's all .140 wall.

That's pretty good. I bought 300 feet of larger tubing and a bunch of 1" for misc stuff. Not sure how much I have left (seems like a lot) although most of the buggy is done except for the lower rear portion. I did use a mix of .120 and .095 wall, the .095 wall was used for internal braces which would only see tension and compression loads, all the outer stuff is mostly .120 save for a few spots that I never hit in the old buggy. I think all the BTG guys (cept Pat "poop pipe" Murphy ) have given up on HREW, it just gets beat up too fast. We are all moving to Dom. It may cost a bit more but it sure seems to hold up better in the long run. Most of us also design for a 4 year chassis lifespan, anything less just gets too costly (as if this hobby isn't expensive enough). I tend to go a little overkill on my triangulation but based on the rolls I have experienced with my last rig and in our club I feel it's justified. Nothing worse than having the whole cage get shifted in a hard roll and being faced with a complte rebuild.
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Old 09-15-2004, 02:54 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRipper
I have about 100 feet in mine right now and have about another 40 feet at the most to add to it.It is all 1 3/4" .120 hrew.I added up the metal you were talking about using and you are looking at around 450 lbs for your chassis I figured.Right now my chassi weigh's 211.67 on the scale.

got a site i can check that thing out at?
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