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Old 03-03-2002, 03:13 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Mog axle questions????

What is the width of a 406 axle?

What lug pattern do they have?

What size wheels can you fit on them?

Where can I get a 406 axle?

how heavy is a 406 axle?

Do they make the cable selectable lockers for them that they do for the 404?

Will the lockers come with them?

Feel free to awnser any or all of these questions. The more you can awnser the more I would appreciate it. Some of these questions have probably been gone over before but i am a little new to this site so i probably wouldnt have seen it unless it was in the last couple months. All the help that you can give would be greatly appreciated.
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Old 03-03-2002, 08:56 AM   #2 (permalink)
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What I know is that they have a large 6 lug pattern. You will need unimog or custom wheels for it. I've seen disc brake conversions that also convert them to the standard 8 lug. They are wider than stock Jeep, but I'm not sure how much. They come stock with cable actuated lockers. The overall gearing between R&P and the portals is 7.56:1. I would imagine they are quiet heavy.
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Old 03-03-2002, 09:38 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Can't say about 406 but 404...

Check out Extreme Axle Technologies in Vancouver BC at EXAXT.ca they do 404 axles but likely can answer your 406 questions as well. Click aroud the site -They explain that there are some issues with the torque tube and expense of the 406 that make it less desierable in swap in situations. Besides, they seem to think the 404 is stronger than a D70 so there is no need to run the heavier 406. They also offer a disc brake 404 that converts the hub for use with 8 on 16.5 rims. In my wild axle fanatsy research I found them to be priced very fairly when you look at what is out there. I think the front 404 is about 530lbs and the rear about 500 even. Lighter than a Rockwell comparable to a D60.

I found out about them on this board and checked em out cuz good things were said about their operation.

I have heard stories about 404 axles blowing up, but never seen it. But shit, you can bust anything if you beat iti hard enough or fail to maintain it properly. I would love to know the "truth" about these axles myself.

Whatcha building?

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Old 03-03-2002, 12:11 PM   #4 (permalink)
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You're wasting your time...
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Old 03-03-2002, 05:15 PM   #5 (permalink)
 
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404 and 406

I sell both 404 and 406 axles.

I build disc brakes for the 404 axles, and can convert the pinions to a regular flange. The 404 axles are 69"wide WMS to WMS. they have a 7.56 to 1 final gear ratio.

I also sell 406 axles. These axles come in both disc and drum versions. The widths are as follows,
Front Disc 1853mm
Rear Disc 1829mm
Front Drum 1695mm
Rear Drum 1671mm
These axles are extremely beefy, they feature shafts that about 1 5/8" thick, HUGE CV steering joints, air lockers front and rear, several different gearing options, portal hubs, and are stronger then and lighter then Rockwells.

Elf Cruiser you are waisting your time with those Rockwells, the only advantage 2.5 tons have is price. The 406 axles and stronger, lighter, better gearing options, selectable lockers, WAY more clearence.
And at 3500US for a pair of 406 axles they are not that much more expensive.

Don
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Old 03-03-2002, 07:01 PM   #6 (permalink)
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What I want to know is if anyone can say this mog axle is as strong as this dana axle.
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Old 03-03-2002, 08:22 PM   #7 (permalink)
 
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the 406 axles are by all means as strong as D60s
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Old 03-03-2002, 08:47 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: 404 and 406

Quote:
Originally posted by taradon
I sell both 404 and 406 axles.

I build disc brakes for the 404 axles, and can convert the pinions to a regular flange. The 404 axles are 69"wide WMS to WMS. they have a 7.56 to 1 final gear ratio.

I also sell 406 axles. These axles come in both disc and drum versions. The widths are as follows,
Front Disc 1853mm
Rear Disc 1829mm
Front Drum 1695mm
Rear Drum 1671mm
These axles are extremely beefy, they feature shafts that about 1 5/8" thick, HUGE CV steering joints, air lockers front and rear, several different gearing options, portal hubs, and are stronger then and lighter then Rockwells.

Elf Cruiser you are waisting your time with those Rockwells, the only advantage 2.5 tons have is price. The 406 axles and stronger, lighter, better gearing options, selectable lockers, WAY more clearence.
And at 3500US for a pair of 406 axles they are not that much more expensive.

Don
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Taradon how much for a set of front 406s and can you center one of the diffs for me. Another question is how long are the pinions on those things from the center of the diff? I want to run 4 wheels steering with these things and am going to extend the wheel base of my wrangler YJ to 101 inches. Thanx for all the info!
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Old 03-03-2002, 08:58 PM   #9 (permalink)
 
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406's

Eddie Mcstiff, I know that the 406 axle is way stronger then a Dana 60, I already said it was stronger then 2.5 tons.
If I were to rate it I would say that it would be in the 4 ton range.

I don't have any pinion length measurements handy right now but it should be around 18" to the end of the flange from the centerline of the axle. Email me and we can talk about narrowing the axles for better pinion location.
-Don
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Old 03-03-2002, 10:13 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Teradon - i have two more ??'s

-Can you center the diff without narrowing the axle housing, i want 72" width which is waht you listed for the 406 model? I need the diff centerd in the rear, for use with an Atlas2.

-How many inches do the knuckles drop down??? How far from center of ring gear to center of hub??

Thanks-

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Old 03-04-2002, 03:32 PM   #11 (permalink)
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i can get the 404 dirt cheap brand new in the crate shipped to ya from germany . i was gonna go with a pair and slap them into my tj but ....i drive it everyday and they cant withstand (the portals) high speeds on the highway and the disc brake conversion is too much money... have fun man im going with rc60 up front and a rc60 in the rear with 14 bolt tubes... i think i will be better that route
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Old 03-04-2002, 03:37 PM   #12 (permalink)
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well don't be a tease where can you get 404 axles cheap?
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Old 03-04-2002, 04:38 PM   #13 (permalink)
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call up scott at expedition imports...707-643-6757
good luck fitting them in dude...
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Old 01-18-2003, 06:18 PM   #14 (permalink)
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how thick are mog 404 axles??

how much would a mog inner shaft cost??
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Old 01-19-2003, 12:00 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Well, I can't remeber every single question down through the thread, but I will try to give up what info I can share, and try to answer as many questions as possible. Also, there is some stuff up above that needs to be corrected....

I am building my buggy with U-1300 axles. They are very similar to 406 axles. They are a little wider, and all of them have disk brakes. They have air lockers as all 406 axles do. It would take substancial modification of the housing to make the locker work any other way.
There are only 3 stock gearing ratios(that I know of). 6.527:1 , 6.061:1, and 5.308:1 . I guess it would be possible to also have a ratio of 4.93:1 if you were able to find the right gears. The other 3 stock ratios are made up by mixing 2 R&P gear ratios and 2 hub gear ratios. If you mixed the fastest R&P ratio with the fastet hub ratio, it would give you 4.93:1 which as far as I know was never available stock.

On my axles the pinion flange to axle center measurement is 18". It could easily be 2" shorter, and with alot more work could be a few inches shorter yet.

You can only fit a 20" rim over these brakes as they are stock.

Although with the way that these are put together, it would be easy to make custom rotors , and use aftermarket or 1 ton Calipers.

The wheel stud pattern is 6 lug, 205mm ,with 18mm studs.

ANother interesting thing is that the differential housing, and hub housings on these axles is pressurized by an on board air system. The pressurized air inside will keep any water, sand , or other foreign particles from making it past the axle seals. I plan to utilize this feature of my axles on my buggy.

The axles all have different diameters in the center to balance the axles torsional flex to it's length. All the axles are 1.76" dia. 21 spline at the splines.

The steering joints are double cardan which allows them to steer very sharp. The steering joints are bomb proof as long as they are not worn out. The only wheel joint I have ever heard of breaking on these was severely worn out, and had been neglected for a long time. My axles steer approximately 50*(I will measure this soon, so far this has just been a preciscion eyeball measurement from me) at the stock steering setting. The U-joints measure ~ 4.5" accross.

These axle housings would be pretty hard to narrow , or center the diff. If Teradon(Don) is willing to do it, I would like to hear how he will do it(E-mail me about this Don).

Basically in my opinion these are just about the strongest axles out there that you would want to run under a trail vehicle. They are close in weight to Rockwell axles. They are way stronger than Rockwell axles. And the price is very good when you consider everything that you are getting with them.

Here are some pictures of my axles.....


Sean
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Old 01-19-2003, 12:03 AM   #16 (permalink)
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One part of the axles left out of these pictures are the brake backing plates. They fit really tight in a 20" rim so that it is almost impossible for anything to get at the portal hub, or brakes. They are a very neat design. All of the engineering in these axles is far superior to what you will find on just about anything else like it.
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Old 01-19-2003, 12:05 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Ran out of Jackstand.... They still have to go up alot more.
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Old 01-19-2003, 12:06 AM   #18 (permalink)
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There is going to be 26" of dif. clearance with the 53" Michelin XL's.
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Old 01-19-2003, 12:07 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Last one.. SHows the hub, brake setup.
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Old 01-19-2003, 12:40 AM   #20 (permalink)
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I didn't know the axles were pressurised.
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Old 01-19-2003, 11:12 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by JR
I didn't know the axles were pressurised.

It's part of the deep water fording kit that all the ex-German Army U 1300 L's have. When you engage the pneumatic circuit for 4wd, it pressurises the whole drive line including the transmission to keep the bad stuff out. It's just enough air pressure to equalize with the outside pressure of the water trying to get in past the seals. Like Sean said, a tremendous amount of engineering went into these axles. The U 1300 L axle is the fourth generation Unimog axle and Mercedes put all that it had learned up to that point into these axles. They are definitely more expensive up front but you'll get what you pay for through lower maintenance costs in the long run.

The tallest tire from the factory used on these axles was 43"-44", so Sean's 53" XL's will be outside the design parameters but I don't think he'll have any problems. I can't wait to see what he is building.


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Old 01-19-2003, 11:14 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Station,

Where did you pick those axles up? Price? Thanks for the info.
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Old 01-19-2003, 02:12 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by JR
I didn't know the axles were pressurised.
Oh, and they also have sensors that let you know when the brakes need to be serviced.

Sean
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Old 01-19-2003, 02:54 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by EUROTRUCK



It's part of the deep water fording kit that all the ex-German Army U 1300 L's have. When you engage the pneumatic circuit for 4wd, it pressurises the whole drive line including the transmission to keep the bad stuff out. It's just enough air pressure to equalize with the outside pressure of the water trying to get in past the seals. Like Sean said, a tremendous amount of engineering went into these axles. The U 1300 L axle is the fourth generation Unimog axle and Mercedes put all that it had learned up to that point into these axles. They are definitely more expensive up front but you'll get what you pay for through lower maintenance costs in the long run.

The tallest tire from the factory used on these axles was 43"-44", so Sean's 53" XL's will be outside the design parameters but I don't think he'll have any problems. I can't wait to see what he is building.


-EuroTruck
I shared most all of the knowledge that I have about these axles. EuroTruck (Sean right?) I am sure can tell you ALOT more about them than me. He doesn't have alot of time for the BB, so I try to fill in all I can between when the experts show up. Feel free to correct any numbers or specs that I give if they are wrong.I would rather know the right answer and be told I was wrong, then to just be wrong. I wasn't positive about the gear ratios that I gave above, so if they are wrong, please correct them(I think the actual ratio of my axles are 6.36:1 , but am not 100% positive).

I am looking for more info on how the water fording kit worked on the mogs. Could you possibly shoot me an e-mail with any info regarding the system ([email protected])? Also, I need to weld the flanges to the axle tubes that you see in the pics(Can be seen in more detail atAdjustable link suspensions). Is there any chance that you could send me some pages from the shop manual on these axles? I have to take the axles all the way apart before I weld those flanges on, and I want to be sure that I have all the tools I need, and that I know how to put them back together properly(torque specs etc.) before I start to take them apart. That would be a huge help to me if you could help me with this.

You built a U-1300 with 51" Michelin XML's right? You did have a picture of one on your website front page at one time. I am very interested to see how these axles are going to hold up to my abuse. I honestly do not think that I am going to break them, or even come close even with 53" tired and a 500ci. engine. These things are SUPER BURLY. The axles are pretty freshly rebuilt, and are in almost new condition.

I will tell you one thing though... DANG it took a WHOLE lot of cutting and grinding to get rid of all the stock brackets one these axles. Every bracket on them was 1/4" , with 1/4" weld beads on both sides holding them on. There were 14 peices of 1/4" that had to be cut off of each axle. Once I torched each bracket off, then I still had all of the huge welds left behind to grind down, and all of the brackets were shaped to fit over parts of the axle that were very difficult to grind down. I am a bit of a perfectionist, so I have spent about 8 hours with a 5" angle grinder so far, and I am almost done cleaning off the second axle. I surely would not look forward to doing all of that again.

Sean
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Old 01-19-2003, 03:02 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by biggnome
Station,

Where did you pick those axles up? Price? Thanks for the info.
I bought my axles from Daniel Tibus in Germany. I bought my axles from him because he is an awesome guy, really nice. And he gave the the best price on the axles by far. I will let youtalk to him about the price.

His website it at Tibus Off-Road

E-mail him at [email protected] . Tell him to call you, and he will. He usually gets back to you pretty quickly. I know he is in a transition to the United States now, so there may be some dealy for him to get back to you... I don't know.

I am definitely happy with my dealings with him.

Sean
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