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Old 09-09-2005, 01:35 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Power steering pump help!

(Full Hydro)I have a stock chevy pump with remote res., 2x8 single ended ram, 3 turn lock to lock orbital, on a welded rockwell. With the stock setup, it would turn when not in a bind. With the welded front that is usually lock to lock on flat ground. I tried drilling out the fitting to 7/32 (like the redneck ram site) and notched the ends( I know that these mods are for increasing flow). It wouldn't do anything at all, and the pump isn't making any sound, like its under a strain. I pulled everthing back out and too the two shims out of the plunger and stretched the outside spring a little and put the original fitting back in. It would just, barely be able to turn the steering wheel, but no noticable wheel movement. SO THE QUESTION IS: what else can I do besides buy the $174 dollar (around $200 after tax/shipping) PSC pump? I know that there has to be a way to make it work. Thanks for any help.
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Old 09-09-2005, 01:48 PM   #2 (permalink)
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If you have a 2x8 trying to steer tires that necessitate a Rockwell, no Saginaw-based pump will survive the pressure you'll need to be able to steer it in the rocks. You need a larger steering cylinder--I wouldn't run less than a 2.5 on a Rockwell, and depending on tire size, would seriously consider a 3".

I'm sure it's not what you wanted to hear, but you can do the math in BillaVista's hydro bible (and/or I can post up the equations) and that's what it'll come down to.
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Old 09-09-2005, 02:07 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected]
If you have a 2x8 trying to steer tires that necessitate a Rockwell, no Saginaw-based pump will survive the pressure you'll need to be able to steer it in the rocks. You need a larger steering cylinder--I wouldn't run less than a 2.5 on a Rockwell, and depending on tire size, would seriously consider a 3".

I'm sure it's not what you wanted to hear, but you can do the math in BillaVista's hydro bible (and/or I can post up the equations) and that's what it'll come down to.
Scott, just an FYI, after talking to you a while back about my system. I upgraded to the PSC 2.5" ram and I still bind in the rocks. Looks like i'm going to have to shell out the $430 for the PSC P pump conversion.
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Old 09-09-2005, 02:20 PM   #4 (permalink)
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You can get about 1800psi reliably from a TC pump; I ran that last year on my P pump in competition, and am running 1700psi this year. With the 2.75" cylinders, I can lift the rig on the steering and drive out of a roll.

For durability's sake, I wouldn't go over 1800psi; we wound a couple test pumps as high as 2600psi, but they didn't live long in that condition. Most orbitals are only rated 2000-2500psi anyway, and it's just not worth the risk (if you saw the damage we did to the P pump at 2600psi, you'd agree) to squeak out a little bit of power. Better to run a larger cylinder at a lower pressure. At least the TC doesn't blow apart if you overpressure it--it just whines and cooks itself.

Last edited by [email protected]; 09-09-2005 at 02:22 PM.
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Old 09-09-2005, 02:31 PM   #5 (permalink)
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1800 psi from the TC doing the West Texas flow mods? I never got any noticable change when I drilled my TJ pump fitting out.
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Old 09-09-2005, 02:48 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Nope, you've gotta change the relief cartridge to change the output pressure.

Relief cartridges, in some cases, interchange between TC and P pumps, but if you're going to mess with the output pressure, it really needs to be pressure-tested to verify the new output pressure, or you run serious risk of pump damage.

(edited)

Last edited by [email protected]; 09-13-2005 at 03:44 PM.
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Old 09-09-2005, 02:49 PM   #7 (permalink)
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You guys are having a hard time turning right? If so you dont want to do the flow mods. That will just make it so you turn faster. You need more pressure (the washer mod).
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Old 09-12-2005, 10:50 AM   #8 (permalink)
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I did take the washers out (which builds pressure) but one thing I did wrong was when I said I put a stock fitting back in, I didn't us the on that came with it. I worked on it again and put a very small washer in the plunger and put the fitting that came with the pump originally back in and it seemed to run slighty better than all stock. It dose run better at higher rpm's. I posted on another site and someone posted that there still might be some air in the lines, so I'm going to jack the front end up and run it back and forth many times. Maybe it will help, sure can't hurt. But I'm sure that I will end up ordering the PSC pump. Thanks for help.
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Old 09-12-2005, 11:37 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Taking the washers out will decrease pressure. If you want more you need to ADD washers.

I would just order the PSC pump. I used to go through aprox 1 stock non modded pump per 2 trips. I went with the PSC pump about 2 yrs ago and have had two PSC pumps. The first one had a manufacture flaw and had to be replaced (no fault to PSC).

$$$$ well spent on PSC pump.
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Old 09-13-2005, 08:40 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik D_lux
Taking the washers out will decrease pressure. If you want more you need to ADD washers.

I would just order the PSC pump. I used to go through aprox 1 stock non modded pump per 2 trips. I went with the PSC pump about 2 yrs ago and have had two PSC pumps. The first one had a manufacture flaw and had to be replaced (no fault to PSC).

$$$$ well spent on PSC pump.

if you think removing the washers will increse pressure, you should keep buying pumps from someone else

the more you squeeze the spring the more pressure the pump will build
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Old 09-13-2005, 09:33 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Erik, you misunderstood what was done. There (on most sag pumps) are two washers on the outside of the plunger that you can take out and screw the filter/nut thing down further, which would increase pressure on the spring so it wouldn't bypass so easily. So, in all, I took two washers off the outside and put a very small(about 1/32 thick) washer on the inside to squeez the spring tighter. Drove it yesterday(monday) and as long as the rpms were 1000 or better it worked great. The only problem now is when I turn with the front welded, it really wants to to push the springs(foward and reverse) witch makes the body roll hurable because of the different circumfurances that the wheels are trying to follow. Might have to buy a detriot also.
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Old 09-13-2005, 10:08 AM   #12 (permalink)
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my PSC pump and res are shipping today, ordered thru twistedcustoms.biz - great service

I got sick of dickin around with "stock" pumps as well...
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Old 09-13-2005, 03:19 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Chevydid you really drill the TC pump out to 7/32?

Every TC pump we have drilled out that far will only get worse flow with a hole that big. I recommend only 5/32 for the p style ( wich is what it says on the website) and 9/64 for the TC style.

Also Scott watch out on swapping tc and p style pistons. they are not all the same.
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Old 09-13-2005, 03:42 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLakeRat
watch out on swapping tc and p style pistons. they are not all the same.
Correct, I was too generic on that statement. Generally, the large displacement iron TC and P pump valves will swap, but small displacement and aluminum TC's, don't necessarily swap around with other stuff. And since most Jeep TC's are small displacement ones, it's definitely a "double check before trying" item.
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Old 09-13-2005, 10:39 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jstarnes
if you think removing the washers will increse pressure, you should keep buying pumps from someone else

the more you squeeze the spring the more pressure the pump will build

Go back and read what I said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by erikd_lux
Taking the washers out will decrease pressure. If you want more you need to ADD washers.
Please, in the future, read THEN think THEN reply....
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Old 09-13-2005, 11:01 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChevyScout
Erik, you misunderstood what was done. There (on most sag pumps) are two washers on the outside of the plunger that you can take out and screw the filter/nut thing down further, which would increase pressure on the spring so it wouldn't bypass so easily. So, in all, I took two washers off the outside and put a very small(about 1/32 thick) washer on the inside to squeez the spring tighter. Drove it yesterday(monday) and as long as the rpms were 1000 or better it worked great. The only problem now is when I turn with the front welded, it really wants to to push the springs(foward and reverse) witch makes the body roll hurable because of the different circumfurances that the wheels are trying to follow. Might have to buy a detriot also.
Gotcha we were thinking about two differnt washers....

As said above I would check to see if you drilled it out too far. If so I would replace the fitting and see how that works. If it still isnt enough then I would try to add another washer.

When I did this trick years ago I blew my first pump in half (literally) and then tried less washers and had enough to twist the sector shaft off my box.

Just remember the more you increase flow the less pressure you will have. Good luck
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Old 09-14-2005, 06:46 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik D_lux
Go back and read what I said.



Please, in the future, read THEN think THEN reply....
OK eric

with a stock control valve there is a body, a nut, a spring,a ball, a set of shim washers, and a seat with a stem on it

the washers are there to tune the pressure at which the ball lifts off of the seat (the seat built into the body)

when there are no washers the pressure gos up to the max you can get WITHOUT adding washers under the spring (which is not factory)

when you say removing washers will decrease pressure this is wrong UNLESS you are talking about washers added under the spring (which again was not "stock" so if someone reads what you said and tries to modify there "stock"pump they will add washers

when they add washers and dont get any gain they will add more washers, then when they run out of nut to thread into the body they will say WTF and come back here only to find outthey read the wrong info


I read and reread, I did have a typo when I first posted

I said
Quote:
Originally Posted by jstarnes
if you think removing the washers will increse pressure, you should keep buying pumps from someone else

the more you squeeze the spring the more pressure the pump will build
the typo was when I typed INCRESE insted of DECRESE

IF you remove washers the relief pressure will go up if you add a washer inside UNDER (between the nut and spring, not the nut and body)the spring the pressure will go up more
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Old 09-14-2005, 10:19 AM   #18 (permalink)
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I know how the mod works. It was an obvious misunderstanding as I thought he did the WTOR mod and added the washers already. And in my mind its stock SHIMS vs. the mod that adds WASHERS.

My point is you dont have to come in here being a blow hard anal retentive prick. This thread was going just fine before you brought the childish chit chat B.S. If you want to do that go back to chit chat newb.
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Old 09-19-2005, 02:05 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Sorry it took so long to get back, Lakerat, I searched and found a trend thats pretty old and it said that the "imformation is on the new web site but the there is one correction, that it was 7/32, not 5/32." Maybe I am just remembering it wrong.
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