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Old 12-14-2005, 04:31 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Tubing Thickness

I say if you take a piece of 1 1/2 x.120 tubing and slide it inside of a piece of 1 3/4 x .120 tubing you will have a piece that is stronger (against bending) than a piece of 1 3/4 x .250 tubing.

What do you think??
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Old 12-14-2005, 04:33 PM   #2 (permalink)
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why would it be?
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Old 12-14-2005, 04:36 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulevans76
why would it be?

IM with him.......I think if you could bond it together the entire length you imight have a comparo.......IM also a cheap bastard and my last 4 link I did I used 1" inside of 1.25" inside of 1.5" all .120 wall and it performed flawlessly.....
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Old 12-14-2005, 04:38 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulevans76
why would it be?
Because it is essentially twice the surface area??
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Old 12-14-2005, 04:42 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Nope. The 2" 0.250 is stronger.

I don't have the engineering to back up why, but I know on the bender here, with the hydro setup on it, I can bend 2" 0.250 DOM to about 25 or 30 degrees before the bypass opens up and the bender stalls out.

I can bend 2" 0.120 DOM slid overtop of 1.75" 0.120 DOM, (same OD, same material and treatment, only slightly different ID and a tiny air gap in the middle) to 90 degrees, and only a little past 90 because we only have a 90-degree 2" die.

The way the bender is laid out, assuming one shot bending to 90 degrees, it takes progressively more and more pressure (got a gauge on it, but I haven't paid attention to it while bending the specific materials in this question, more used it to compare 4130 to 1026 recently) to bend farther and farther.

Last edited by [email protected]; 12-14-2005 at 04:44 PM.
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Old 12-14-2005, 04:43 PM   #6 (permalink)
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No. (Crosssection is the key)
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Old 12-14-2005, 04:46 PM   #7 (permalink)
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No..
They should be the same strength.


they are both essentially 1 3/4 .250 wall.
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Old 12-14-2005, 04:51 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertoy
I say if you take a piece of 1 1/2 x.120 tubing and slide it inside of a piece of 1 3/4 x .120 tubing you will have a piece that is stronger (against bending) than a piece of 1 3/4 x .250 tubing.

What do you think??
Bend your links already?
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Old 12-14-2005, 04:59 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Bend your links already?
Nope
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Old 12-14-2005, 05:15 PM   #10 (permalink)
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whats the difference in cost?
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Old 12-14-2005, 05:25 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason M
No..
They should be the same strength.


they are both essentially 1 3/4 .250 wall.
Nope.
The 0.250 is stronger since it is one homogeneous cross section. The tube over a tube is two smaller cross sections separated by a small (.0025") gap.
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Old 12-14-2005, 05:39 PM   #12 (permalink)
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The solid (.250) wall tubing will be stronger. There is tranverse shear stress in the wall when in bending, the two tubes will slide across each other while the solid wall will resist the tranverse shear. Think of bending a book vs bending a solid block of wood.
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Old 12-14-2005, 06:28 PM   #13 (permalink)
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i jsut experienced this today in a bender. i tried to bend .250wall 1.75'' DOM 1026 in a bender and stalled the ram, it how ever, does sleeved .120/.120 tubes of similar diameter without a prob???

i had to heat the .250wall up with the torch and bend it amnually.what a SOB it was and the bend was only 24*........
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Old 12-14-2005, 06:28 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GOAT1
The solid (.250) wall tubing will be stronger. There is tranverse shear stress in the wall when in bending, the two tubes will slide across each other while the solid wall will resist the tranverse shear. Think of bending a book vs bending a solid block of wood.
My non-engineer ass agrees with this high tech explanation

The same principle applies with leaf springs, which you may be more familiar with. Given the same overall cross section, a spring with more but thinner leaves will have a lower spring rate and be able to flex further without bending than one with fewer but thicker leaves. This is because the leaves are able to slide against each other, relieving the above explained sheer stress.
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Old 12-14-2005, 06:30 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertoy
Because it is essentially twice the surface area??
That was my first thought also. If it was jammed in tight????????
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Old 12-14-2005, 06:51 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GOAT1
The solid (.250) wall tubing will be stronger. There is tranverse shear stress in the wall when in bending, the two tubes will slide across each other while the solid wall will resist the tranverse shear. Think of bending a book vs bending a solid block of wood.
I agree.

In a pure tensile or compressive load, there would be virtually no difference in strenght, but for bending the slip "plane" at the interface eliminates the ability to develop transverse shear stresses.
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Old 12-14-2005, 07:35 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Sorry to hijack this one but:

What would be sronger:

2" DOM .250 wall (round obviously) or 2"x2"box tubing .250 wall (square)
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Old 12-14-2005, 07:59 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordic1
Sorry to hijack this one but:

What would be sronger:

2" DOM .250 wall (round obviously) or 2"x2"box tubing .250 wall (square)
The square tubing has a larger moment of inertia (more of the material is further from the neutral axis(center)) so it will be stiffer, and stronger if they were made of the same material. DOM ends up being stronger because the yield and tensile limits are higher for DOM than what structural steel is.
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Old 12-14-2005, 08:02 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordic1
Sorry to hijack this one but:

What would be sronger:

2" DOM .250 wall (round obviously) or 2"x2"box tubing .250 wall (square)

It was covered in this post a little bit

https://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=422764
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Old 12-14-2005, 08:05 PM   #20 (permalink)
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One thing you could do is to drill a few holes in the outer tube, on the top and bottom and more of in the middle of the link and put some rosette weld in them. The rosette welds would take the transverse shear, but I dont know how that would hold up with some abuse.
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Old 12-14-2005, 08:08 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mechanos
Nope.
The 0.250 is stronger since it is one homogeneous cross section. The tube over a tube is two smaller cross sections separated by a small (.0025") gap.
the small gap is what gets you, it promotes the bend.
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Old 12-14-2005, 08:12 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4extreme
It was covered in this post a little bit

https://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=422764
Thanks for the link!

Quote:
Originally Posted by GOAT1
I forgot the numbers but the 2" round DOM would be stronger, only because DOM is stronger than the A500 grade square tube comes in.
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Old 12-14-2005, 08:39 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GOAT1
The square tubing has a larger moment of inertia (more of the material is further from the neutral axis(center)) so it will be stiffer, and stronger if they were made of the same material. DOM ends up being stronger because the yield and tensile limits are higher for DOM than what structural steel is.

I'm assuming you mean modulous of elasticity. Moment of inertia is not in the calculation for the strength of a metal.

The moment of inertia is a consideration for the flexural stiffness of a material. The natural frequency changes are directly related to moment of inertia variation and consequently to a reduction in the flexural stiffness.

Stiffness is not the same as strength.

Stiffness is the resistance to bending/deflection.

Strength is the resistance to "breaking", either by ductile failure or brittle fracture.
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Old 12-14-2005, 09:36 PM   #24 (permalink)
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probably for the same reason that the gun drilled axel shafts are supposed to be stronger
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Old 12-14-2005, 09:43 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Unless you actually welded the tubes together along the length they just act like a leaf spring. That's why I always laugh when people say they have sleeved tubes for links and think it is just as strong as tubing that is thick wall.
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