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View Poll Results: interest in a air fuel monitor
yes, I would use one. 6 26.09%
No, these things are stupid. 7 30.43%
Need more info... 5 21.74%
I already have one. 5 21.74%
Voters: 23. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-17-2005, 09:13 AM   #1 (permalink)
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air fuel meter question product interest.

Ok - so I work with this guy who has developed a nice simple air fuel monitor. This works with LEDs to indicate if your rich or lean. He says he wants to know if it would be worth while to invest some time in producing some. I told him the best place to find interest in the off-road world was here.

He says he thinks he can get them out for around $40 each without the O2 sensor, but would have about 8 feet of wire to run to your connections.
I did a little search for these and was finding most were well above $100 each. Even without the sensors. I am sure he could make a package with the O2 sensor and bung if there was enough interest.

So anyone interested in having a air/fuel monitor???

Ritch
I am not selling anything here just looking for comments and interest. If there is enough interest - I will recomend him to go ahead and finish his devlopment of the packaging.
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Old 12-17-2005, 11:09 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nwmud
I did a little search for these and was finding most were well above $100 each. Even without the sensors.
I think your getting confused with wideband o2 controllers/gauges. You can get a regular Autometer narrowband A/F gauge for like $50. Your friends gauge doesnt really sound like much of an improvement over whats already available but I would post some pics/spec of it anyways.
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Old 12-17-2005, 11:48 AM   #3 (permalink)
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wide band o2s sell in $400-500 range.

They are not cheap because the sensor itself is a high ticket item.

I use an AEM WB sensor and it has the sweeping LEDs and a digital AF ratio display combined.
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Old 12-17-2005, 02:13 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I got a gauge and sensor from summit for less than that- I might have allready had the sensor can't remember, but there are inexpensive air/fuel gauges/meters allready available.
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Old 12-17-2005, 04:41 PM   #5 (permalink)
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i wouldn't waste my time with a narrow band not very accurate hence why they are cheap
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Old 12-17-2005, 06:08 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Wide band O2 sensors will be cheap soon. The first generation used an expensive $200 sensor that was exclusive to lean burn hondas. Now there is a standard wide band sensor that is universal. You can get the sensor from online VW parts suppliers for like $35. You can buy an assemble it yourself kit from a place in australia for like another $35. Even the LM1 and AEM sensors are only about $320 now.

a narrow band o2 sensor is totally useless.
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Old 12-17-2005, 09:58 PM   #7 (permalink)
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i would not buy a narrow band meter, too slow, i need numbers not blinking lights, "so whats the A/F"? "between 3 and 4 blinking lights" "WTF"
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Old 12-18-2005, 09:42 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Gordon, can you elaborate with more info, sources and links?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon
Wide band O2 sensors will be cheap soon. Now there is a standard wide band sensor that is universal. You can get the sensor from online VW parts suppliers for like $35. You can buy an assemble it yourself kit from a place in australia for like another $35.
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Old 12-18-2005, 10:58 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon
Wide band O2 sensors will be cheap soon. The first generation used an expensive $200 sensor that was exclusive to lean burn hondas. Now there is a standard wide band sensor that is universal. You can get the sensor from online VW parts suppliers for like $35. You can buy an assemble it yourself kit from a place in australia for like another $35. Even the LM1 and AEM sensors are only about $320 now.

a narrow band o2 sensor is totally useless.


I have been looking for a wideband for tuning my EFI once it is up and running. do you have some website to get this cheaper wideband stuff from?
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Old 12-18-2005, 12:34 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon
a narrow band o2 sensor is totally useless.
X2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott F
Gordon, can you elaborate with more info, sources and links?
see this site www.wbo2.com
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Old 12-18-2005, 12:47 PM   #11 (permalink)
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These are really dropping in price. I know moates sells the O2 sensor for around $80
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/lm1.php
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Old 12-18-2005, 03:15 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Triaged
X2

see this site www.wbo2.com
Thanks. That's the site. I've tuned with one before, but I don't own one and haven't put one together. It worked flawlessly, but more recently I have been borrowing an LM-1, just because it is easier for me to get my hands on...
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Old 12-18-2005, 03:29 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jopes
I have been looking for a wideband for tuning my EFI once it is up and running. do you have some website to get this cheaper wideband stuff from?
The SMT7 is a piggyback tuner you can wire into your existing ECM and comes with a Wide Band O2 sensor for $695. This tuner also has screen for extra driver to add nitrous or extra injector etc...

http://www.perfectpower.com/products/smt7.asp
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Old 12-18-2005, 07:52 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Gordon
Thanks. That's the site. I've tuned with one before, but I don't own one and haven't put one together. It worked flawlessly, but more recently I have been borrowing an LM-1, just because it is easier for me to get my hands on...
I have their 2A0 (the DIY version) and a display (also DIY). They now have a version with 1MB of logging memory...sadly I haven't tuned anything of mine with mine yet I did use it to help my buddy take about half a second out of his 1/4 time tuning the carb.
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Old 12-19-2005, 12:12 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Triaged
I have their 2A0 (the DIY version) and a display (also DIY). They now have a version with 1MB of logging memory...sadly I haven't tuned anything of mine with mine yet I did use it to help my buddy take about half a second out of his 1/4 time tuning the carb.
That's what I've done most too, holleys on 350's. It's amazing how much more power you can make by putting in less fuel.
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Old 12-20-2005, 10:10 AM   #16 (permalink)
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I thank everyone for their time and comments - I will share this information with my friend and let him decode where he wants to go with this idea from here.

Have a happy holiday season
Ritch
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Old 12-21-2005, 08:53 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Narrow band is all I have used the last 20-25 years. They work fine for most general uses. Even on the race truck we thought we were rich but were so lean the plugs were fouling and sooting up the plug! The MSD guage told the true story when we seen the led's sweep to lean at WOT.

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Old 12-22-2005, 10:18 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Narrow band is all I have used the last 20-25 years. They work fine for most general uses. Even on the race truck we thought we were rich but were so lean the plugs were fouling and sooting up the plug! The MSD guage told the true story when we seen the led's sweep to lean at WOT.

Jason
If you are tuning for max power, then you want an air fuel ratio around 13:1 depending on your engine. If you are richer or leaner than that optimum number then you will make less power. At that air fuel ratio your narrow band sensor will read full rich, but the wide band sensor will read an actual number.

My experience from using a wideband sensor to retune a few cars that are already sort of tuned for the drag strip with a narrow band sensor -every car has some point during the pass that it is way way to rich-.
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Old 12-22-2005, 10:30 AM   #19 (permalink)
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I agree with you that the wide bands should be better although I have not used one. You can get a great idea of the mixture with the narrow band...the key I think is to get one of the narrow bands with more than 3 led's for normal, lean and rich. The ones I like best have around 10 led's and you can watch the led's move around toward rich or lean better and can even watch the mixture go off scale so you know your super lean or rich--at least within the confines of a "stoichimetric ideal" mixture. I'd even possibly argue that the narrow band may be more sensitive within its limited range. I can see the mixture change as the engine compartment warms up or the outside temperature changes by 10 or 20 degrees etc.

Jason

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Old 12-22-2005, 10:39 AM   #20 (permalink)
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The problem with the narrow band is that the ideal AF for power is off scale. It doesn't matter how many LEDs there are, the problem is with the sensor, it only reads in a very narrow range or AF ratios.

They were developed to help auto manufacturers meet emissions requirements they only work when you are tuned for maximum fuel economy or minimum emissions. Even factory fuel injected cars run rich enough at full throttle that they get an unusable signal from the O2 sensor.
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