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Old 02-26-2006, 09:51 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Project "Freak" Truggy build - Season 4

Please feel free to comment, criticize, etc.

Some of this is re-post so please bare with me for a few.

Ever since I built the front wristed radius arm suspension I have not had the proper caster. Not even close. I rolled the pinion up to gain drive shaft clearance and reduce driveshaft angle, but never did a cut and turn because the hydraulic steering let me get away with it. Well.... after my powerloc destroyed the old housing I figured if I ever wanted to correct the caster now was the time.

It took about 30 min each to grind the welds out (make sure you use grinding wheels that are rated for grinding on the perifery), then another 2 hours to turn and re-weld. My arms were gassed and my hands were fumbling all over the keyboard when I originally typed this.

To secure the axle I welded the jack stands to my work table, then used two 2" ratchet straps to hold the axle down to the stands. I welded some steel plate over the area where I wanted to strike the C to prevent damaging it. In one of the pictures there is two hammers, the smaller one was completely worthless. The bigger one still required pretty much every effort I had. If a person had access to two oxy/act torches it might save some effort with the sledge hammer. Quick and High Volume heat is key. I had to heat the C well over 500 degrees (thats where my IR temp gun quits reading).



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Last edited by bgreen; 02-26-2006 at 09:52 PM.
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Old 02-26-2006, 09:55 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Bracing the C's incase I decide to mount the coilovers to them:

1/8" A36 mild steel plate Tig'd on with ER70s2, mig or stick would be just fine, but I've been trying to TIG everything I can for practice.



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Old 02-26-2006, 10:04 PM   #3 (permalink)
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After mocking up the newly cut and turned axle I noticed some clearance issues! The C's are gonna bet re-cut and un-turned. lol. I decided to lower the front end several inches but with the pinion rotated up so far I have major clearance issues. I'll cover that a bit later in this thread.

Also!!!....

no more wristed radius arm!

lowering the front of the chassis creates very limited room for a panhard. In order to fit the hydraulic steering and the bumpstops I've never been able to install, I started looking for ways to change things up a bit. I dont have any complaints with the wristed arm suspension but I just couldnt find a way to get a nice long panhard and still fit the rest of the suspension and steering, so....

I decided to fabricate a double triangulated 4 link. XX. The lowers will be the same basic configuration as before, but the uppers will be splayed way out on the chassis. The passenger side upper will be mounted to the side of the diff housing.

Here is a few pictures of the new, and 4th rendition of my passenger side control arm. (bent the first, straightened it out, and braced it with angle, then bent it again, and finally made a trussed version which held up VERY well, and now the latest change for a new suspension design)










The main tube is 1/8" mild steel rec tube. The bottom was cut off to form the truss shaped contour then a new bottom out of 1/4" mild steel (A36) plate was welded on. The top is the rec tube 1/8" with a piece of 1/4" mild steel (A36) 1.5" plate welded along it. The goal here was to get as much material as far from the centroidal axis as possible. If you remember correctly, on the drivers side arm, I used 3/16" on the bottom, left the top alone, then plated the sides with 1/8. There is no way Im going to calc out the difference in strength between the two, but theoretically this should be a bit stronger.

One thing to take note of is the additional material wrapped around the O.D. of the bushing sleeve. My lower axle end bushing sleeve was an oval, so this should prevent that from happening again. As you can see, I'm re-using as much of the old arms as possible. (All the threaded mechanisms and bushing sleeves.)
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Old 02-26-2006, 10:10 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Upper control arms are 1.5" sch 40 a53 pipe with ORD poly bushings at the frame end and R.E. cartridge joints at the axle end. I bent the uppers so I would be sure to clear the tire at full lock. The bend is only 13* but since they will be in compression when going forward I will add some additional bracing so I dont propagate the bend under extreme loads.

Also note the washers that were welded onto the lower brackets to increase the load bearing area on the lower link fasteners. (main portion of the brackets are fabricated from 3/16" A36 mild steel plate.)





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Old 02-26-2006, 10:18 PM   #5 (permalink)
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As always, awesome work.. Looks great Brook.


Tim
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Old 02-26-2006, 10:19 PM   #6 (permalink)
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It will be interesting to see first hand the difference between the wristed radius arm and the XX dual triangulated 4 link. It will also be interesting to see what a few inches lower ride height will do.

These pictures show the front suspension design as complete as far as the links and their mounts are concerned. The mounts are all 3/16" A36 plate, and the lowers have 4140 weld washers Tig'd on with ER70S3 like the rear. Only diff here was that on the rear I welded the washers on with 309SS in an effort to prevent cracking due to the dissimilar metals. So far I prefer the ER70S2 I think.



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Old 02-26-2006, 10:27 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I really like the lower links, a lot of time and effor went into those it looks like
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Old 02-27-2006, 12:52 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Looks like your running very little vertical seperation. Insight of why your doing this? How much is there?
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Old 02-27-2006, 09:30 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Looks like your running very little vertical separation. Insight of why your doing this? How much is there?
There is only about 7" IIRC. My reasoning was that with my old suspension I only had one upper (wristed radius arm) and had about 9.5" of vertical seperation. The lower was mounted aproximately axle centerline. This setup proved plenty strong, so I feel the only reason for me to go with more would be purely for geometry reasons. (with the exception of stretching one of the outer bushing sleeves on my passenger lower arm, I expect due to it being on axle centerline)

This suspension has two uppers, and the lowers are quite some distance below the axle centerline. as shown in this picture...



Should I ever need more seperation I will have to lower the lower control arm brackets due to limited head room at the top of the diff, pinion, and steering.
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Old 02-27-2006, 09:24 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Last one to show the triangulation. Ignore the angles created by the bent arm. The angle is determined by the line connecting similar points on each connection point. (center of the bushing to the center of the cartridge joint)

Also... notice the upper and lower arms are pretty much parrallel when viewed from the side in the pictures above.



also notice the caster. lol. only took 2 hrs this time. The first side went just like the last, but for the second (pass side) I welded a peice of pipe from the short tube down to the table to keep the axle from rotating and to keep from shearing the rosette welds in the diff. I heated the C up till it was holding a dark cherry red, had to crank up the pressure on the bottles, then smacked it with a sledge. The damn thing spun free! lol. I only hit it once, and ended up having to rotate is back! So, my best advice at this point is to use two torches if possible.


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Old 02-27-2006, 09:32 PM   #11 (permalink)
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The first point of contact during suspension compression was the exhaust. I was going to order up some exhaust donuts from http://www.chassisshop.com/ but I had a moment of clarity and just did the best I could with a bunch of used junk I had around the shop. I spent about 2 hours trying to lay out templates so I could precisely cut pie shapes out of the large radius bends to make small radius bends, then gave up and just started to sketch them by eye. I used a 4.5" grinder with a cut off wheel and went to town. A few hours later I ended up with a good half inch of clearance between the pinion yoke and the exhaust, making the next contact point the diff housing and oil filter.







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Old 02-27-2006, 09:43 PM   #12 (permalink)
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With the suspension compressed all the way, the next point of contact was the oil filter. So I went to partsamerica.com and found this adapter at my local Schucks parts store. The adapter is part of a PermaCool kit #10695. The remote filter will be mounted to the passenger side frame rail and plumbed with 1/2" s.s hardline.



This picture shows the suspension 2.75" from contacting the frame. The bumpstops have a hard stop preventing the last 3/8" or so of travel to keep the steering and axle from contacting the frame.

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Old 02-27-2006, 09:45 PM   #13 (permalink)
 
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good stuff , are the links the same length as the radius arms you had before? longer shorter how do you think this will effect how the suspension travels?
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Old 02-27-2006, 09:58 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I tig'd the link brackets to the diff housing using er70s2 and put the axle back under the rig so I could cycle the suspension and get the shocks mounted up.

My goal was to mount the shocks as close to the ground as possible, and angle them in, and back a bit. Unfortunately I coundnt make them fit. No clearance between the steering arm and the bumpstop mounts, and if I mount them ontop of the lower control arm the tire contacts them at full articulation and steering lock.
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Old 02-27-2006, 10:05 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by rcks4me
good stuff , are the links the same length as the radius arms you had before? longer shorter how do you think this will effect how the suspension travels?
The lowers are the same length, but my uppers are about a foot shorter than the lowers. This does cause the pinion to rotate down as the axle droops, but its not enough to bind the driveshaft in this application.
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Old 02-27-2006, 10:13 PM   #16 (permalink)
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So to get the clearance I needed for the shocks......




I cut the front of the cage off

I used some scrap metal to mock up the new shock locations so I could cycle the suspension before committing to anything.
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Old 02-27-2006, 10:14 PM   #17 (permalink)
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this is really an awesome rig, I have followed your old thread, good job, and I really love the welds, looks great, keep us posted on progress, thanks again.
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Old 02-27-2006, 10:22 PM   #18 (permalink)
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So after mocking up, cycling, re-mocking, and re-cycling for more hours than I care to remember I actually committed to the upper coilover mounting location and bent up some tube!

I think its gonna look pretty cool, might not want to cover it up with sheet metal.





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Old 03-05-2006, 11:05 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Looks like you'll have a little bit better front view through the windshield with the redesigned front tubing. I've been working on getting our house ready to sell and haven't done anything on building a new buggy. Hopefully we will be moved into a new shop this summer.

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Old 03-05-2006, 12:18 PM   #20 (permalink)
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My goal was to mount the shocks as close to the ground as possible, and angle them in, and back a bit. Unfortunately I coundnt make them fit.
I like the new look man!! Just wondering why you "wanted" to mount the coilovers as close to the ground as possible? I always was under the impression that the higher they were mounted the better. (clearence/stability). Just curious...
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Old 03-05-2006, 01:44 PM   #21 (permalink)
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I like the new look man!! Just wondering why you "wanted" to mount the coilovers as close to the ground as possible? I always was under the impression that the higher they were mounted the better. (clearence/stability). Just curious...
I didnt want them sticking up through the hood reducing visibility, and the lower they are mounted the lower my COG will be.

Quote:
Looks like you'll have a little bit better front view through the windshield with the redesigned front tubing.
Ya, I should have much better visibility than before, and this will get the hood low enough that the body lines will match up at the back of the fender.
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Old 03-05-2006, 02:11 PM   #22 (permalink)
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and the lower they are mounted the lower my COG will be.

Really????? Ive never heard of such a thing, how the hell do shocks effect COG???
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Old 03-05-2006, 02:15 PM   #23 (permalink)
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your over thinking it.

If I lowered the winch, it would lower my COG too.
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Old 03-05-2006, 03:52 PM   #24 (permalink)
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wow i never would of thought i would see a joint other than a bushing on your suspension. Good work on the remodeling looks awesome.
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Old 03-05-2006, 06:45 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Hmmm...which flap disk am I going to use today???
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