Blown Buggys - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum
 
Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum  

Go Back   Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum > General Tech > General 4x4 Discussion
Notices

Reply
 
Share LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-16-2006, 11:37 PM   #1 (permalink)
Zeus of the Sluice
 
Bunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Member # 41059
Location: Monroe, Wa
Posts: 2,624
Send a message via Yahoo to Bunk
Blown Buggys

Im curious about guys who run supercharged/turbo'd rig's offroad where there is dust(most anywhere i suppose). I am prepping the "next" engine and am torn between cam and compression or the lovely sound of a superhcarger/turbo. Im concerned about the affects of dust and long term affects on the engine and etcetera..

Who has run a artificial aspiration unit for a long enough period of time to comment on this?? what are the affects you have seen and what would you do next?

Last edited by Bunk; 10-16-2006 at 11:37 PM.
Bunk is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-17-2006, 12:21 AM   #2 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Member # 12257
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 4,621
MadRam seems to want to go the low end torque route (he's boosted right now)
__________________
:homer:
American is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Old 10-17-2006, 12:21 AM   #3 (permalink)
Pirate4x4 Addict!
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Member # 12429
Location: Rubicon Trail - CA
Posts: 14,728
Blog Entries: 9
I think turbolag would suck for a crawler... be pretty fun in the snow/mud I'd imagine though.

No comment no the dust
Todd W is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-17-2006, 12:25 AM   #4 (permalink)
Registered User
 
blown4x4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Member # 43190
Location: Eugene OR
Posts: 1,786
I think a roots style blower (6-71. 8-71 etc.) would be better off road then a turbo. You have instant torque with that setup with no "lag".

I have a couple of these style(roots) blowers but have not been able to run them yet.
__________________
1976 F-150 2.5tons locked disk braked 466bff ord doubler 44" boggers coil-overs air bumps etc
blown4x4 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-17-2006, 12:32 AM   #5 (permalink)
Rock God
 
MadRam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Member # 20833
Location: Tuscaloosa, AL
Posts: 2,263
American is right, I want to switch to a motor that makes more power lower in the RPMs like a 502 Ramjet.
I have a stroked LT1 with a 12lb Boost Supercharger. It makes tons of power but it has to get up to 6,000 Rpms first. Makes like 600-650 HP though.
So far the Dust hasn't been an issue. My airfilter is mounted inside the dash.
Motor is forsale if your interested.



You can see the pipe goin into the Firwall.
__________________
Check out some of the best Off-Road Videos on YouTube.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


MadRam11 Face Book Page
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


CHECK OUT
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
MadRam is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-17-2006, 01:18 AM   #6 (permalink)
Registered User
 
DocRocks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Member # 26496
Location: Atl
Posts: 1,232
Personal choice, but I've never been a fan of forced induction in a off-road rig... the right choice of cam, compression, displacement and tuning will make for more than enough low end grunt and HP...

Case in point.... a new forged LS2 402 Stroker.....

__________________
Ken Mercer
Mercer Motorsports
RockSports Team #770

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



2009 & 2010 KOH Team #770

Bunk is a true Hero! Ask me why :)

Last edited by DocRocks; 10-17-2006 at 01:20 AM.
DocRocks is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-17-2006, 03:14 AM   #7 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Blown7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Member # 63754
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 437
This is going in my CJ-7, the only way to go it has the options of being low end grunt or top end burner, with allkind of options for fuel from 87 octane to 117 octain VP fuel



Jeff
__________________
1977 CJ7, 401 AMC 6-71 GMC Blower, 16 Injector EFI,

[COLOR="Yellow"][SIZE="3"]My Build [/SIZE]
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
[/COLOR]

2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT8 for the road.




To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by Blown7; 10-17-2006 at 03:19 AM.
Blown7 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-17-2006, 03:53 AM   #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Member # 36015
Posts: 169
What difference would dust make???
ChicksDigWagons is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-17-2006, 05:28 AM   #9 (permalink)
Granite Guru
 
redtruck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Member # 21493
Location: DBQ
Posts: 966
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocRocks
Personal choice, but I've never been a fan of forced induction in a off-road rig... the right choice of cam, compression, displacement and tuning will make for more than enough low end grunt and HP...

Case in point.... a new forged LS2 402 Stroker.....


Put that in a box and send it to me, or leave it ouside some night and I will come pick it up. Thanks
__________________
92 chevy sfa
89 S-10 sfa
redtruck is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-17-2006, 06:08 AM   #10 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Member # 17399
Posts: 3,900
As Blown 4x4 said. Roots are the way to go.......... Been running superchargers for years off-road, don't skimp, build it right the first time.

Here's 1 of my blower motors...........




Buzz
BUZZISCRAZY2 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-17-2006, 07:56 PM   #11 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Samystar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Member # 21385
Location: Québec, Canada
Posts: 401
What about a 2.0L Ecotec Supercharged for a small buggy ??? Would be better than a 2.2L Ecotec for sure. I was planning putting this small engine in mine.
__________________
[SIZE=4][COLOR=Red]wasazuk...[/COLOR][/SIZE]
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Samystar is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-17-2006, 08:41 PM   #12 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Member # 12257
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 4,621
How do you set up the supercharger to work well at low RPM? I was watching MadRam's rig real close last weekend (i plan to bore, stroke, and blow my current engine), and he was obviously trying to ease into the supercharger's range. But instead, all of a sudden the tires were spinning at like mad. Not exactly in the useable range.

How do you go about getting it low, and useable?
__________________
:homer:
American is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-17-2006, 09:05 PM   #13 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Member # 1956
Posts: 5,535
Bah!!!!!!!! Small C.I. motors are lame. You need big inches and boost to be scared. Then it is fun.

I never had any issues with dust. Just clean the filter more than you think as you are pulling more air.
__________________
The forest was shrinking, but the trees kept voting for the axe because it’s handle was made of wood

Last edited by Shadow man; 10-17-2006 at 09:06 PM.
Shadow man is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-17-2006, 09:09 PM   #14 (permalink)
Zeus of the Sluice
 
braxton357's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Member # 14685
Location: morganton/charlotte,nc
Posts: 10,047
Send a message via AIM to braxton357
Quote:
Originally Posted by American
How do you set up the supercharger to work well at low RPM? I was watching MadRam's rig real close last weekend (i plan to bore, stroke, and blow my current engine), and he was obviously trying to ease into the supercharger's range. But instead, all of a sudden the tires were spinning at like mad. Not exactly in the useable range.

How do you go about getting it low, and useable?
Blown and that other redneck () are running positive displacement roots blowers...madram is using a centrifugal blower. If those two and a turbo faught...the centrifugal would be in 3rd place by a long shot.--but it's the easiest to use and package, and still obviously makes power--. My favorite is a turbocharger...but if you're wanting something that doesn't come on like a lightswitch, eaton/roots/lysholm is where it's at. The problem with a turbocharger isn't that it lags as much as when it see's a load it makes far too much power for your tires almost instantly .
As much as I love forced induction, in a trail rig I would definately go with big compression and a decent cam instead.
__________________
In vino veritas

73 linked 5.8efi Bronco
braxton357 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-17-2006, 09:36 PM   #15 (permalink)
JR
OG13 King
 
JR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Member # 8524
Location: Agua Dulce, CA.
Posts: 7,875
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blown7
This is going in my CJ-7, the only way to go it has the options of being low end grunt or top end burner, with allkind of options for fuel from 87 octane to 117 octain VP fuel



Jeff
About the A/C compressor...
I can just imagine sitting by the roadside, while you top-up our tires
JR is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-17-2006, 10:01 PM   #16 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Member # 11105
Location: Bradenton FL
Posts: 614
I am planning on putting a 60mm turbo on my buggy. With a correctly sized turbo you can have little to no lag. Especially in our cases where we are running such low gears, which loads the motor, the harder you load the motor the faster the turbo will spool. As long as you are not trying to make a lot of boost you can get a pretty linear power band if it is all set up correctly.
__________________
PSC Bruiser
78mphgpr is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-17-2006, 10:50 PM   #17 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Member # 41097
Location: Calgary
Posts: 4,131
Send a message via MSN to mustange70
If you guys are worried about dust look at the agriculture industry, thats one of the more dusty environements you can get, so what you do is go and get a dual airfilter (an inner and outer, the outer can be blown out but don't touch the inner filter) housing along with the approiate dust trap. Also dust and oiled filters do not mix, unless you want to clean them out daily (i screwed up a rather healthly 351w cause i live on a farm and thought they were a great thing to have).

Also turbo lag today can be, if designed right, nonexsitant. ie, do a dual turbo setup, small turbo for when the bigger one is spooling, and your golden. Also take a look at the diseals, those are making peak power around 2000rpm ( depending on the motor) and they all use fairly large turbos.
mustange70 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-18-2006, 12:00 PM   #18 (permalink)
Zeus of the Sluice
 
braxton357's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Member # 14685
Location: morganton/charlotte,nc
Posts: 10,047
Send a message via AIM to braxton357
Quote:
Originally Posted by 78mphgpr
Especially in our cases where we are running such low gears, which loads the motor, the harder you load the motor the faster the turbo will spool. As long as you are not trying to make a lot of boost you can get a pretty linear power band if it is all set up correctly.
You've got that first part backwards...steeper gears load the turbo more and make more power--which is why a lot of times a car with 3.2 gears will be faster on the bottom end than a car with 4.11. Otherwise you're correct.

[IMG]Also turbo lag today can be, if designed right, nonexsitant. ie, do a dual turbo setup, small turbo for when the bigger one is spooling, and your golden. Also take a look at the diseals, those are making peak power around 2000rpm ( depending on the motor) and they all use fairly large turbos.[/IMG]

Lag is pretty much a function of very small CI motors running fairly large turbos. Run a v8 and turbocharger and you'll realize that it doesn't really exist. And fwiw, diesels run small turbo's for their displacement and 2krpm is more than halfway to their redline.
I agree that K&N's suck as well.
__________________
In vino veritas

73 linked 5.8efi Bronco
braxton357 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-18-2006, 12:39 PM   #19 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Member # 67882
Location: Orange County
Posts: 3,350
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicksDigWagons
What difference would dust make???

dust going in the chager/turbo and making it go kaboom

Eric
__________________
120 fabrication
Two fj40s on 60s
fj40forlife is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-18-2006, 10:17 PM   #20 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Member # 11105
Location: Bradenton FL
Posts: 614
Quote:
Originally Posted by braxton357
You've got that first part backwards...steeper gears load the turbo more and make more power--which is why a lot of times a car with 3.2 gears will be faster on the bottom end than a car with 4.11. Otherwise you're correct.
The transfer gears are what is loading the motor much more than usual not the axle gearing. On say a street car the lower numerically the rear gear, the better it will load the motor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by braxton357
Lag is pretty much a function of very small CI motors running fairly large turbos. Run a v8 and turbocharger and you'll realize that it doesn't really exist.
True to a point, if you put say a 60mm turbo on a 302 lag will be nearly non existant, same motor with say an 88mm MUCH more lag, it is in the setup.
__________________
PSC Bruiser

Last edited by 78mphgpr; 10-18-2006 at 10:24 PM.
78mphgpr is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-19-2006, 02:27 AM   #21 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Member # 17399
Posts: 3,900
Quote:
Originally Posted by braxton357
Blown and that other redneck () are running positive displacement roots blowers...madram is using a centrifugal blower. If those two and a turbo faught...the centrifugal would be in 3rd place by a long shot.--but it's the easiest to use and package, and still obviously makes power--. My favorite is a turbocharger...but if you're wanting something that doesn't come on like a lightswitch, eaton/roots/lysholm is where it's at. The problem with a turbocharger isn't that it lags as much as when it see's a load it makes far too much power for your tires almost instantly .
As much as I love forced induction, in a trail rig I would definately go with big compression and a decent cam instead.



You can go big compression And Roots..............

And they turn on at prit near 1500 RPM.........Low enough American ?


BUZZISCRAZY2 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-19-2006, 07:34 AM   #22 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Member # 72660
Posts: 53
LS1 or LS2 is the way to go. Fairly light and they make tons of torque and respond well to heads and cams. Nitrous especially!!
hbwiggins is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-20-2006, 06:17 PM   #23 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Member # 36015
Posts: 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by fj40forlife
dust going in the chager/turbo and making it go kaboom

Eric
lol. Thanks for that techinical explaination! Suprisingly I've found turbo compressors to be pretty tolerant of mud/dirt... I've sucked enough into the intake, through the air filter to coat the entire intake tract with brown...

Not that it was GOOD for it or anything.
ChicksDigWagons is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-21-2006, 05:57 AM   #24 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Member # 17399
Posts: 3,900
Quote:
Originally Posted by hbwiggins
they make tons of torque and respond well to heads and cams.

LOL Don't they All ???.............


BUZZISCRAZY2 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-21-2006, 02:59 PM   #25 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Member # 5371
Location: TN
Posts: 34,249
Send a message via MSN to rockota
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samystar
What about a 2.0L Ecotec Supercharged for a small buggy ??? Would be better than a 2.2L Ecotec for sure. I was planning putting this small engine in mine.
Not sure about the super charged, but the turbo charged 2.0 DI in my Redline has zero low end torque. It's definitely fun at 16lbs of boost, though.
rockota is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

** A VERIFICATION EMAIL IS SENT TO THIS ADDRESS TO COMPLETE REGISTRATION!! **

Email Address:
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:40 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.