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Old 05-04-2002, 03:29 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Building a Dream Shop

Looking for idea's and "why didn't I think of that" thoughts.

Looking to buy a house, convert the garage to living space to bring the house to 5 bedroom & 2500 sq ft. (garage is 600 sq ft.)

So time for a custom garage/shop. Ideally around 1000 sq feet of garage, with a office/apartment on the top. 1/2 bath in garage, 3/4 in apartment area.

Lots of good idea's from the thread on garage concrete.

Goal is to keep expenses to under $20K (Slab, frame, roof, office floor) finishing out the area's later.

THOUGHTS:

Double doors on BOTH ends of the shop to let any breeze flow through.
Slope the floor, easy to hose out. Set a flat pad in one side for any alignment, llayout work.

Any recommendations on "shop plans" on the web? Ya, need to have the shop match the house.

Suggestions appreciated!

Tom
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Old 05-04-2002, 04:14 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I am planning on doing just the opposite. Buy a 50x70 shop and converting part into a living area. I only need 1200 sq ft to live. The rest can be shop area.

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Old 05-04-2002, 08:30 PM   #3 (permalink)
 
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Think ventalition. Build in a welding /cutting area, with over head vent. Steel table for welding/cutting/grinding /burning, and painting (not real body work type painting, just rattle can parts work) If you can even think of affording it.. Do the in ground lift now.. Or at least build in the pit, back fill, cover with maybe a sheet of 3/8 steel, have it for later.
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Old 05-04-2002, 08:46 PM   #4 (permalink)
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NEVER and I mean NEVER undersestimate how much space you need. is 1000 sq/ft REALLY enough?

ok.. first.. you will want a lift. make sure the ceiling is at least 16' tall where the lift is. Also make sure yyou can lift a 35' RV if you ever wanted to. (Easy to say, I'll never need that, harder to fix it when you realize you do. )

I would highly recommend laying out the floor and where the 1st and 2nd floors will be. might be suprised how small things get.



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Old 05-04-2002, 08:46 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Building a Dream Shop

Heat the floor with hydronic system (tubes in floor with hot water for heat), central air, 10 foot doors, air lines, overhead lift, recepts every 4 foot (seperate recepts from lights so you dont kill yourself when you trip a breaker), if you're married cable tv, complete bathroom with shower, seperate phone line to escape the "loved ones". Might as well be comfy sincce you''ll be living in there.
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Old 05-04-2002, 09:38 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: Re: Building a Dream Shop

Quote:
Originally posted by hewl35
Heat the floor with hydronic system (tubes in floor with hot water for heat), central air, 10 foot doors, air lines, overhead lift, recepts every 4 foot (seperate recepts from lights so you dont kill yourself when you trip a breaker), if you're married cable tv, complete bathroom with shower, seperate phone line to escape the "loved ones". Might as well be comfy sincce you''ll be living in there.
I did most of that in my garage. I wish I would have installed the hydronic system, and went with 10' wide doors instead of 9' and 9' high not 8'. btw the standard door is 7' high. I did install the bathroom w/shower and wash tub. It's the best thing you will ever do Also go with a 200 amp seperate elec. entrance , put outlets in the ceiling also for drop lights. I to have the phone and catv. 1000 sq ft will not be enough, thats only about 32x32. If you are going to have a pool near the garage put a seperate door into the bathroom from outside for kids and guests so they don't go running in and out of the house. The seperate door for the bath is so people don't have to go throught the rest of the garage to get into the bath. To much risk of stepping on somthing sharpe and getting hurt. Go with a barn style roof , it will give you a huge room on the second floor to finish the way you want. I have 9'6" celings, wanted 10' but the builder screwed up. If you plan on a lift find out which one you want and plan your hight for it. They make lifts for lower ceiling hights but with a lifted truck you will only be able to go so high. You may also need a thicker floor for a lift also. good luck, it all adds up quick $$$$$$$$$
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Old 05-04-2002, 09:48 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Don't go with an in-ground lift. they're yesterday's news.
I can't think of a shop that's been built in the past 10 years that doesn't have above ground and I'm talking dealerships and major garages.

In-ground has a lot of issues.
1. When they leak (trust me they will) you'll have a ground contamination issue.
2. When you have a problem other then post seals you gotta dig everything up to do any repairs, and you will.

Above ground is way cheaper, easier to maintain and there are some units that will even give you enough room under the raised vehicle to park another under it.
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Old 05-04-2002, 10:24 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Might consider a row of block or pour a riser up for your base board. That way you don't have to worry about water sitting there and rotting your sill.
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Old 05-04-2002, 11:07 PM   #9 (permalink)
 
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There is a machine shop in town that has a unique (to me) ventilation system throughout! On the south end of the shop is where the main exhaust fan is located. The pipe connected to the fan is about 5' long and 2' diameter. Fed into this piece of pipe is about 10 smaller pieces of about 6" diameter flexible tube, kinda like dryer venting. They then sealed this housing up and strung the stuff to the main working areas of the shop, i.e. above the benches and one down low to place over exhaust. Here in the north country heating these shops is a big issue and when you kick on a big fan you can potentially blow all your heat outside. This elliminates that because the hoses hand down slightly.

Just my addition to your list!!!
enjoy the new shop!!!


and did I mention a fridge to keep the cold!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 05-04-2002, 11:56 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I'll be following THIS thread.
I'm just finally sorting out just the basic interor restoraton and am pretty excited to begin laying out the new 'Jeep Lab"
Look, See ...
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Old 05-05-2002, 07:04 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jaffer
I'll be following THIS thread.
I'm just finally sorting out just the basic interor restoraton and am pretty excited to begin laying out the new 'Jeep Lab"
Look, See ...

So that's all ya need, find an old gas station.

They come complete with.....

someone to sweep up.....


and piles of jeep parts in inside....


who couldn't resist a deal like that!
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Old 05-05-2002, 08:41 AM   #12 (permalink)
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surely you're not attempting to build this is Round Rock in a neighborhood ? i used to live off 620 behind the H-E-B in Round Rock and the homeowners association in all those neighborhoods were so gung-ho nazi about what you could/couldn't do ...

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Old 05-05-2002, 08:57 AM   #13 (permalink)
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whoever is talking about heat, he's in austin TX, Think more about how to get the AC flowing good enough....

I am looking into the same issue, with a little different flair. Buy the house sitting on an acre outside of town with a 3 car garage, pay down 20K or so on the principle, then build the shop.

Things I have run into (and I am in Dallas, so it should be similar)

1) Get far enough out of town that there is not a homeowner's assoc.

2) Get at least 3/4 of an acre. Any less and you will have a tough time working out a home and shop on the same lot, and since this place will have your dream shop on it, sooner or later you will want an actual house, and you will want to put it next door!

3) Consider whether you will ever make your offroad shop the basis of a legitimate business (I say legitimate as in enough documentation to get the tax breaks). If it will be a business, take a look at the requirements from both the city and the county to get a fictitious business name and an occupancy permit. You will have to do some research to see which of these you will need for your application.

4) Research requirements on secondary structures in the city/town/ whatever you are gonna be building in. In one I just looked at, you are restricted to 600 sq ft of Air Conditioned space in a secondary structure. I just found rule #1 that I will have to creatively break!

5) Take a look around the neighborhood as you are considering buying, the more car covers with jackstands poking out from under them, flat deck trailers with tire racks on them, and derelict vehicles in the back yards you see, the better. People that have the above yard ornaments will come over to gawk, drink beer, and see if you can weld up their ___________ (insert minor task here), instead of calling the cops on you for spinning up a grinder at 10 seconds after 9 on a saturday evening.
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Old 05-05-2002, 09:01 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by ForestCam
Don't go with an in-ground lift. they're yesterday's news.
I can't think of a shop that's been built in the past 10 years that doesn't have above ground and I'm talking dealerships and major garages.

In-ground has a lot of issues.
1. When they leak (trust me they will) you'll have a ground contamination issue.
2. When you have a problem other then post seals you gotta dig everything up to do any repairs, and you will.

Above ground is way cheaper, easier to maintain and there are some units that will even give you enough room under the raised vehicle to park another under it.
I think in ground lifts have come along way.... this is what I have my eye on.
Check this out....nice and out of the way when you dont need it.

http://www.challengerlifts.com/envirolift.html
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Old 05-05-2002, 09:49 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Good idea's & thoughts... keep 'em coming. Area is an older HOA section, but smallest lots are 1+ acre.

Well water & septic fields, but most of these homes have large shops behind them. 1000 sq ft shop seems about average.

For "tax code" the area above the shop/garage will be "storage space". Of course with it being so hot in Texas might just need an A/C in there for "storage"! For code reasons if the storage area is a "living area" might require a larger septic field.

Lift would be nice feature, but need to keep cost reasonable. Still thinking that I am better of specifying a 6" slab under the whole area, giving more options later for an above ground hoist.

CATV & Computer & phone lines are a good idea, thanks.

Tom
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Old 05-05-2002, 10:36 AM   #16 (permalink)
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i would recommend a hoist on track system. sort of like a rail that runs the length of the shop with a hoist attached, that can slide or roll down the rail. i saw this once and it was incredibly how handy it was. imagine hauling home something big (ie: engine or axle) and just being able to snag it right out of the back of your truck, slide it to the back of the garage, and set it down on jackstands. all that with minimal effort and its a one person job.
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Old 05-05-2002, 04:56 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by bsumner
i would recommend a hoist on track system. sort of like a rail that runs the length of the shop with a hoist attached, that can slide or roll down the rail. i saw this once and it was incredibly how handy it was. imagine hauling home something big (ie: engine or axle) and just being able to snag it right out of the back of your truck, slide it to the back of the garage, and set it down on jackstands. all that with minimal effort and its a one person job.
Now THAT'S a great idea ...
They've been used in packing houses a lot.
One of the simpler designs I've seen looks just like a C shaped rail with a wheel and a drop down hook.
And others I've seen are double or quad rollers on an I beam .
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Old 05-05-2002, 05:05 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by bsumner
i would recommend a hoist on track system. sort of like a rail that runs the length of the shop with a hoist attached, that can slide or roll down the rail. i saw this once and it was incredibly how handy it was. imagine hauling home something big (ie: engine or axle) and just being able to snag it right out of the back of your truck, slide it to the back of the garage, and set it down on jackstands. all that with minimal effort and its a one person job.
Commonly refered to as a bridge crane...my buddies shop has one, incredibly handy to have.
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Old 05-05-2002, 10:24 PM   #19 (permalink)
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check out the codes I can't get a permit to build mine I am having to jump through every hoop and I am only trying to build a 24x34 with 10 walls on a double lot? I think I will be able to get away with a 24 x32 with a slight bit of fudging. Even though there allowed two houses to be built on the lot next door thats not any bigger than mine and they are about 2200sf each.
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Old 05-05-2002, 10:45 PM   #20 (permalink)
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first check codes to make sure your building will go up with out a hitch.

my uncle lives in a community with a housing authority and his lot is rectangular so the shop is in the back yard and the only way to see whats going on is to peer over a 7" tall wood fence.

for a car hoist look at northern hydralics the hoist i was looking at is like the tire shop uses lifts from the side 8"-35" off the ground pad spread is 36"-57" forward reach of 21" and uses 1/4" air line and lifts 2 tons cost $400 each. so i'll need 2 cost $800 not bad for a roll around any where theres air style lift.



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Old 05-05-2002, 10:53 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by ironpig70


my uncle lives in a community with a housing authority and his lot is rectangular so the shop is in the back yard and the only way to see whats going on is to peer over a 7" tall wood fence.

Man... 7" tall.... must have some REALLY short people there. hehehehe



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Old 05-06-2002, 03:23 PM   #22 (permalink)
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ForestCam -- how did you talk your S/O into moving into a garage?

Whew... looks like my offer is accepted... now just waiting on the SURVEY to make sure the shop can fit, and won't go over a septic field.

Ahem... that 30' x 50' three car garage is looking better all the time! http://www.archwaypress.com/plans/garages/121.htm is what I have in mind. Need to add a 1/2 bath.

Thinking of making the bay to the right a DOUBLE HEIGHT (open to top) for future lift. Limits the loft area, but that is still a ton of storage space.

Quick check of the other homes in the area.... most shops are AT LEAST 1000 sq foot (all property sizes are from 1.2 to 4 acres... not bad at all!).

My SO is a wizard, as it looks like we can do a 3% down, with a construction loan built into the mortgage (30 yr) to have the shop built. Whew... Got the credit cards paid off, or down below 50% of their limit, and everything else clean on the credit scores... so looking good.

Just holding my breath.... deal looks too good to be true!

Tom
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Old 05-06-2002, 07:17 PM   #23 (permalink)
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This is my lift in the barn. We have an outdoor inground lift, but we don't use it due to not wanting to deal with the EPA. As you can see, it makes vehicle storage way easy.

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Old 05-06-2002, 07:20 PM   #24 (permalink)
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A couple other thoughts, an engine hoist works great for carting stuff around the shop. It's also about .01% of the cost of a bridge crane and you don't have to engineer your walls to accept one.

Back to the lift. I've never liked inground lifts because I can't stand directy under the center of my vehicle. I don't like working around something when I'm doing tranny/tcase work.

Easy
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Old 05-07-2002, 03:53 AM   #25 (permalink)
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This is DEFINITELY the thread to keep an eye on for sure! I am looking at 2.2 acre lot to put house and shop on, with future plans of putting down a 2nd house as a rental property. If all goes well with the planning stage I will be working with about 1 1/4 acres for house and shop. Initial shop size so far is about 40' wide and about 40 - 50' deep with one stall having 14' doors on both ends and the other two stalls having 10' doors each. A "storage loft/office" is a darn good idea complete with a 1/2 or 3/4 bath and all of the phone/cable creature comforts. The idea of an exteriordoor to the bathroom is going in for revisement as we are looking to put in a pool as well. Being in AridZona I am going to build 2x6 exterior walls for sure. A little overboard on the thickness and insulation will go a long ways with cooling as well as heating efficiencies. The lift is without a doubt a must! The overhead hoist and rolling track is an idea to look at incorporating. I never seem to have enough hands to do the heavy work. The suggestion of a "hood" over the fabrication bench is another gem. Has anybody seen DRM's shop since he posted it up a while back? Any other little goodies you can come up with?!?!?

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