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Old 02-05-2007, 10:32 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Exclamation It's that time of year again

Easter Jeep Safari is just around the corner, March 31 - April 8, 2007. And I just wanted to remind everyone that the exclusive and one-way use stipulations granted to the Red Rock 4-Wheelers by the BLM on our 5-year permit will be in effect this year also.

I understand this is a controversial decision, but love it or hate, it's the rules we'll have to abide by. Along those same lines please understand and spread the word, INFRINGEMENT UPON THESE STIPULATIONS WILL BE A TICKETABLE OFFENSE! The Moab Field Office has registered these stipulations with the Federal Registry, so anyone found violating the stipulations can and will be ticketed by local law enforcement.

I am not looking to start an argument about whether you agree with this or not, I'm just telling you the way it is.

The BLM has set up a website which should help answer most peoples questions:

http://www.blm.gov/utah/moab/4-wheel.html

You can also find more information at the RR4W web site:

http://rr4w.com/2006permit.html

Just to reiterate,

Exclusive use trails:
Behind the Rocks
Cliff Hanger
Gold Bar Rim
Golden Spike
Moab Rim
Poison Spider
Pritchett Canyon

One-way trails:
Steelbender: this route will be one way going north to south (i.e., from the golf course entrance to Flat Pass)
Kane Creek: this route will be one way going north to south (i.e. from the Hurrah Pass turnoff to the end of the road at U.S. Highway 191
Hellís Revenge: this route will be one way going east to west (i.e. from past the Sand Flats booth to the exit west of Lionís Back)

Thank you for your support and consideration,

David Adams
Red Rock 4-Wheelers Land Use Officer
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Old 02-05-2007, 10:55 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Just checked out the BLM website...

FYI - those trails listed as "exclusive use" are not blocked out for the entire period, they have a chart showing which trails are "restricted" on each day.
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Old 02-05-2007, 11:24 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Oh boy I can hardly wait! You mean I can pay an outrageous fee to sit in a 32 hr long line of morons trying to manage the first obstacle on trails they couldn't run without dynamite, or at least 33's?? Gee I can hardly wait! Besides I thought Barnum n' Bailey had rights to that circus.

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Old 02-12-2007, 02:13 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Old 02-12-2007, 02:53 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Def sounds like a circus. I wish I was into jeeping before it became such a fiasco. Good thing its not the only week to go to moab.
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Old 02-13-2007, 03:53 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I think it's a pretty fucked up way to monopolize the trail for the day.

I understand the fund-raising behind it, but it is PUBLIC LAND. Some of us don't have all the time required to hit all of the trails in the few days we are there.

It used to be cool to head to Moab and just have a good weekend of wheeling. Now we are being told when and where to wheel thanks to the
RR4W's...

I used to pay the registration fees and wheel in the groups. That got old, so I paid the fee for 3 days and hit other trails you weren't on. Now I won't pay the fee because I can't even wheel a trail without being part of your group (generally stock rigs with 33"s).

Thanks for keeping the trails "open to the public"
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Old 02-13-2007, 04:05 PM   #7 (permalink)
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This will be the first year in 10 that we haven't gone to EJS only because of this.
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Old 02-13-2007, 04:39 PM   #8 (permalink)
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So if I pay the fees, will I be left alone by the RR 4 Wheelers and the cops/rangers if I am on the trails independently? I really don't want to be in your group runs as I had a really bad experience last year.

I would go a different week, but I have friends that work the vender show etc.
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Old 02-13-2007, 04:48 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Well, if you dont like it then dont go, wait another week. That said I had a awesome time there and I didnt wheel with and of the red rock group. I would go back if my rig was ready.
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Old 02-13-2007, 05:29 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Well, if you dont like it then dont go, wait another week. That said I had a awesome time there and I didnt wheel with and of the red rock group. I would go back if my rig was ready.
Correct. Nothing says you have to go during EJS.
The last EJS that I did was 2004 and probably will never do another EJS.
Too damn crazy and had definitely gone away from wheeling. Now it just a drunk party on wheels.

Also when I was there the buggy guys, yes the buggy guys were parking their tow rigs with trailers in the road. They had half the damn road blocked along the river. The SD was pissed and was towing them too.
How do I know it was buggy guys? Because the SD Leo I was talking to told me. He was MAD!. He did calm down a bit and was waiting for the wreckers. He already ticketed the rigs.

I will say thank you to the Red Rocks Four wheelers for the fine job of keeping the trails open there. They are difinately to be congratulated for their hard work and diligence. I for one do appreciate the work they do.

Obviously, the idiots that show up during the EJS is no fault of the RR 4 wheelers.
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Old 02-13-2007, 05:50 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I think it's a pretty fucked up way to monopolize the trail for the day.

I understand the fund-raising behind it, but it is PUBLIC LAND. Some of us don't have all the time required to hit all of the trails in the few days we are there.

It used to be cool to head to Moab and just have a good weekend of wheeling. Now we are being told when and where to wheel thanks to the
RR4W's...

I used to pay the registration fees and wheel in the groups. That got old, so I paid the fee for 3 days and hit other trails you weren't on. Now I won't pay the fee because I can't even wheel a trail without being part of your group (generally stock rigs with 33"s).

Thanks for keeping the trails "open to the public"
I'd be willing to wager that RR4W's have done more to keep public land accessible than you have. Oh, and tube buggys on 40's aren't any cooler than stock rigs on 33's, and they certainly don't have anymore rights to the trails than the rest of us.

RR4W organized this event and have dedicated lots of time and resources towards it. Once the numbers get past a certain point, you have to do what you have to do to manage to numbers. Moab is open 52 weeks a year. Quit bitchin' about one stinking week that has rules you don't like and let these people do their thing. They're a good club that has always welcomed me and others and gone out of their way to be hospitible and to organize one hell of an event.

Having said that, I no longer go on the organized trail rides due to the crowds, nor do I really wheel much at all during EJS. I go there to check out the rigs/scene and hit a couple trails where we can. I go to Moab before/after EJS to enjoy the trails the way I like to.
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Old 02-13-2007, 06:18 PM   #12 (permalink)
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X2. We can go to Maob anytime. Being mad because of the rules that you don't like that are in effect FOR ONE WEEK doesn't make sense. It's not like the only week you can take a vacation coincidentally falls on the EJS.

I for one would like to thank the Red Rock club for the work that they do so I can go whenever I want.

Knowing that the "drunken idiots on 33s" are going to clog the trails at this time of year and still going (and complaining about it later) is what's really questionable.
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Old 02-13-2007, 06:25 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Oh boy I can hardly wait! You mean I can pay an outrageous fee to sit in a 32 hr long line of morons trying to manage the first obstacle on trails they couldn't run without dynamite, or at least 33's?? Gee I can hardly wait! Besides I thought Barnum n' Bailey had rights to that circus.
I understand some of what you say -- it is a circus, for sure. :shrug:

There's a simple solution, though -- don't go to EJS if you're not willing to pony up the cash to register. There's better than 5:1 ratio of renegades to registrants, and if you're not going to man up and donate through your registration to the Red Rock 4-Wheelers biggest Multiple Use Defense fund-raiser, then don't go crowd the efforts of those who do, and the club members who support it. RR4Wheelers are a great club, and we probably wouldn't be 'wheeling many of the trails around Moab without the YEARS of support by their club.

Don't come if you won't register and help pay to keep fighting for these awesome trails -- if you want to run on the cheap, pick a different weekend.

Randii
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Old 02-13-2007, 07:26 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Go for ejs, watch the crowds and wheel in bfe. No trail in the ejs lineup is worth the wait.
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Old 02-13-2007, 07:46 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I understand some of what you say -- it is a circus, for sure. :shrug:

There's a simple solution, though -- don't go to EJS if you're not willing to pony up the cash to register. There's better than 5:1 ratio of renegades to registrants, and if you're not going to man up and donate through your registration to the Red Rock 4-Wheelers biggest Multiple Use Defense fund-raiser, then don't go crowd the efforts of those who do, and the club members who support it. RR4Wheelers are a great club, and we probably wouldn't be 'wheeling many of the trails around Moab without the YEARS of support by their club.

Don't come if you won't register and help pay to keep fighting for these awesome trails -- if you want to run on the cheap, pick a different weekend.

Randii
Well Mr. Randii, I agree with everything you say, the redrock four wheelers are doing a fine job of keeping the area open and dealing with the "Morons"! Just so you understand the sarcasm and point I was making.................I will now quote myself, the part you left out:


"See ya'll soon,
Easy Rick."



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Old 02-13-2007, 08:25 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Sorry, Rick, that went right over my head. :embarassed:

So that I don't waste this lather of righteous indignation, d'ya mind if I tee off on someone else?

https://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showt...45#post6448145

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I think it's a pretty fucked up way to monopolize the trail for the day.
Umm... I think you're under the mistaken impression that RR4W suggested these restrictions to the BLM... not the other way around. You'd know this if you'd stayed abreast of the fight to get this 5-year period re-permitted last year, or sent a letter of comment to support it.

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Some of us don't have all the time required to hit all of the trails in the few days we are there.
Go a different weekend. Simple. Most years I do!

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Now we are being told when and where to wheel thanks to the RR4W's...
Thanks to the BLM, and the greenies that drove the policy. THEY wrote letters and made their opinions heard... it sucks that too few folks within our hobby are willing to do the same.

BTW, kudos to anyone who has past participation/donations/registration... RR4W fights the good fight, and your dollars assist them!

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Old 02-13-2007, 08:40 PM   #17 (permalink)
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BTW, kudos to anyone who has past participation/donations/registration... RR4W fights the good fight, and your dollars assist them!

Randii
Thank you Randii....
I like the chocolate Kudos. They go best with peppermint schnapps while fishing when it is cold.

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Old 02-14-2007, 08:18 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Thanks for your support guys. I realize it isn't the ideal for everyone, but good or bad, it is what it is.
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Old 02-14-2007, 08:59 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Go RR4W's!!!!

just because it's 'public land' doesn't mean you have the right to do whatever you want on it.. there are agencies put in place to maintain the land, for us... and if that means limiting a certain number of rigs to pass on a trail for a day then so be it... can't argue with that.. i'd MUCH rather deal with limited permits than closures and NO TRESPASSING signs... just ask anyone who's ever seen their favorite area closed off...

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Old 02-14-2007, 09:22 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Wow, the ignorance started rolling and was quickly squashed.

What would you guys say if I came in here bitching about how the Rubicon was crowded and I couldn't get through during one of your annual charity events or cleanups?

Those that made comments about what a BS policy it is obviously have no idea about land use initiatives. Moab is the epicenter of land battles and organizations like RR4W and the Moab Friends for Wheelin do more to keep these trails maintained, managed, and open than any group anywhere I have seen. I thank them for having the BALLS to do what it takes to effectively manage the crowds that clog the trails on the coat tails of their annual event.

I'll say it again--and this is great advice--if you are coming from a long way away and want to do some wheelin don't come during EJS. there are 51 other weeks per year that are less crowded and I bet you wouldn't have to look too far to find a local or someone quasi-local to show you around.

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Old 02-14-2007, 09:42 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Just for giggles, lets look at the numbers:

Seven trails out of the ~50 in the area that are open 365 days a year.
7 trails for a total of 34 trail days during the 9 day Safari.
That represents ~8% of the total trail days (during EJS) in the Moab area.
That represents ~.000962% of the total trail days (per year).


A couple notes about that 8%
1. Are they more than 8% of the areas tourism revenue during EJS - YES
2. Do they donate more than .000962% of the yearly Search & Rescue Budget - YES
3. Does RR4W contribute more than .000962% of the areas Land-Use efforts YES
4. Is the RR4W responsible for more than .8% of the areas trails being open - YES

This of course assuming that the trails will be closed AFTER the official EJS groups have run which is NOT the case!!!

This is by no means the first time a federal land agency has granted ROW's to a selected group. In fact often they are to smaller groups, and take up more of a regions trails (think Rubicon & Jeep Jamboree). The actual amount of trails included in the ROW relative to the total amount of trails in the greater Moab area are pretty minimal, thus there should be very little inconveinience for those that plan ahead.

Various Mtn Bike races, Marathons, movie filming, etc shut down PUBLIC lands ALL THE TIME! SLC shuts down MILES & MILES of public roads for parades, marathons, races, etc. They don't just shut them down to other racers, they shut them down to EVERYONE but themselves... At least all the other land-users (hikers, bikers) will have free travel in the RR4W case, something that can't be said in many other cases... Private companies reserve PUBLIC property ALL THE TIME for their own interests, every try your "its public land" defense on a movie set? They lock EVERYONE out, all day, all night. Hell, I pay hundreds of dollars a year to park on STATE property (UofU parking), I go to the park to find all of the pavillions are RESERVED by private interests... You have to PAY to use a public campground that is managed by a PRIVATE company making PROFIT (something RR4W's are not doing). RR4W is getting exlusive 4x4 rights to 8% of the trails for the fraction of a day that they are on the trail.

This becomes a safety & enviromental concern for the BLM, if other groups can prove that they need the trail shut for these same reasons, then so be it... but it is VERY unlikely that any other events have the same situation as the EJS (1500 actual participants, thousands of non). You have to realize there is a MAJOR difference between the actual Easter Jeep Safari (RR4W event PAID participants), and Easter Jeep Week. While the EJS event has actually reduced in past years... the Easter Jeep Week has continued to grow over the past 41 years!!! with only the lsat 5-6 being troublesome. I think the last couple have actually slowed down, but then again I make a point of staying FAR away from PSH & dump bump

It is important for people to remember that many trails in Moab would with out doubt be closed for public use it it were not for the RR4W. So for that reason alone, I think it is worth it to respect their event, don't get in the way, and if you don't want to pay to play with them, don't be a menace.

In addition to the large chunks of money that heads to the BLM (and yes they have other sources, but they always need more, last year RR4W gave ~$30k to the Moab BLM, that is a huge chunk of their yearly budget as small as they are). Money heads to the SITLA land agency, RR4W gives the money to the local search & rescue, local schools (keep the community happy with Jeepers. They also donate to the local law enforcement to help with the extra burden of the EJS weekend (though they are the vast minority of people in town).

I look at it this way... without the event and its BLM permit monies... the BLM wouldn't have it in their budget to perform the needed EIS procedures on the Moab area trails... Without those the anti-motorized groups would snuff out trails in Moab in a heartbeat... literally! In addition to the regular permit fees, RR4W has been known to pony up monies to the tune of $20k to save a single trail when in danger (Strike Ravine in 2006). Who else would have stepped in?? The BLM surely wasn't fighting over it, the State Trust Lands were the ones that caused the problems. Heroes in my book!

All of these are excerpts from my previous rants on the subject a year or so ago, even at that time it was old news as the BLM had been soliciting comments on the proposal in 2005. Make no doubt all the anti-motorized crowd made their comments... as usuall apathy plays on our part
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Old 02-14-2007, 11:26 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Well put, Kurt.
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Old 02-14-2007, 11:58 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Well put, Kurt.
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Old 02-14-2007, 11:59 AM   #24 (permalink)
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where are my Kudos?
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Old 02-14-2007, 12:59 PM   #25 (permalink)
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where are my Kudos?
I had a Chocolate chip one, It was good.
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