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Old 04-03-2007, 01:29 PM   #1 (permalink)
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2in2out cuting brake diagram

Did some searching back a couple of years and on google and can not find info on this type of cutting brake. I called polly and the sales guy I talked to said that the guy who knows about these things ??Dan?? was in Moab for the week. I have a cnc 2in2out cuting brake from polly. They don't come with directions and I am wondering if I have it plumbed correctly???

I assumed that the piston builds pressure when it pushed into the cylinder...similer to a master cylinder. Right now I have the pressure in from the master cylinder into the side ports and the pressure out to the front & rear on the end ports.

The unit doesn't leak or have any visible problems. I get normal braking from the stock master cylinder. But when I try to engage eather of the brakes with the cutting brake it just pushes fluid up out of the stock master cylinder untill the handle bottoms out If I depress the foot pedal and then push on the cutting brake you can feel it push back on you with the brake pedal..... there doesn't seam to be any leak by in eather of the master cylinders


This is the only diagram I could find...its not for my setup but it shows the system opposite of what I thought it should be. In this system it builds pressure when the piston is pulling out of the cylinder



So does anyone remember how they set theirs up?

Thanks for any help you can give.

ROB
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Old 04-03-2007, 02:57 PM   #2 (permalink)
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"Right now I have the pressure in from the master cylinder into the side ports and the pressure out to the front & rear on the end ports".

I think you have your lines backwards, thats why when you apply the cutting brake it pushes fluid back out the master cylinder. Run the lines from the mastercylinder into the front of the cuttingbrake, and the lines from the side of the cutting brake to your axles. Its just like in the diagram you have, except there is 2 ports going into the cutting brake (one front and one rear.)
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Old 04-03-2007, 03:00 PM   #3 (permalink)
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the 2 in 2 out cutting brake is usually used for both front and rear cutting brakes (rear steer apps). is this what you want? most guys run 1in and 2 out for left and right rear cutting brakes. IMHO having a front cutting brake is pointless without rear steer.
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Old 04-03-2007, 03:05 PM   #4 (permalink)
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the 2 in 2 out cutting brake is usually used for both front and rear cutting brakes (rear steer apps). is this what you want? most guys run 1in and 2 out for left and right rear cutting brakes. IMHO having a front cutting brake is pointless without rear steer.
Your opinion needs some revision. Being able to lock up the front axle while still applying power to the rear can allow you to slide your rear end sideways. It is rpetty effective, and one of the better modifications we have done.

Ryan
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Old 04-03-2007, 03:08 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I think you have the lines run backwards on your cylinder. I will have to take a look at ours when I get home to be sure, but I am pretty sure the diagram is correct for the 2 in 2 out brake as well, it will just have another input where the bleeder screw is.
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Old 04-03-2007, 03:15 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Your opinion needs some revision. Being able to lock up the front axle while still applying power to the rear can allow you to slide your rear end sideways. It is rpetty effective, and one of the better modifications we have done.

Ryan
how does the rear end slide around, and not just try to push straight forward? I would think since the rear wheel aren't turned the vehicle wouldn't move sideways unless gravity is helping. Just a thought as I have never even seen a front cutting brake used without rearsteer before.
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Old 04-03-2007, 03:31 PM   #7 (permalink)
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You have to be able to spin the tire and break traction. Once this happens, the rear end will slide down hill if there isn't anything in the way, i.e. big rock next to the tire. It is not quite as useful as being able to lock up the rear and doing a front dig, but it still has its merits.
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Old 04-03-2007, 07:48 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I think you have the lines run backwards on your cylinder. I will have to take a look at ours when I get home to be sure,
Thanks I aprecieate it!

Also if you can theorize wether pushing in or pulling out of the piston is engaging the brakes...this way I can make sure I will have the lever moving in the correct direction for the brakes I want to lock. I have the cutting brake mounted with the master cylinder forward and when I pull back on the handle I want to engage the rear brakes.

The sales guy at poly said he thought I had it plumbed correctly after I explained the setup to him....but he sure sounded unsure and green....and this thing sure acts like it is plumbed backwards.


The reason I am using a 2in2out setup is because I run a rear spool/front detroit. I have run ARB's & detroits both front and rear before and prefer the rear spool. I know the cutting brake is more effective when just grabing one side and having an ARB off...but I prefer the spool for trail riding so the cutting brake is mostly for fun.

The front brakes only option will mostly be used for wiping shittys But I have been able to move the rear end around on dirt by braking traction and using the power of the steering (full hydro now) to pivot the rear end.

Thanks again guys.

ROB
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Old 04-03-2007, 07:53 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Every good thread needs a pic...don't have one with all the lines run, just the brake mounted and the rear line hooked up.

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Old 04-03-2007, 08:54 PM   #10 (permalink)
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We have the one on our XJ mounted backwards from yours (handle in front of the cylinders) and that results in the top cylinder being run to the back brakes and bottom cylinder being run to the front brakes with the handle being push to apply front, pull to apply rear.

Ryan
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Old 04-04-2007, 09:02 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Thanks a bunch...I should be able to figure it out now without shooting brake fluid all over the cab as I "test" it out

ROB
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Old 04-06-2007, 12:56 AM   #12 (permalink)
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We designed the 2 in 2 out stuff for our competition buggies and CNC built them for us. PolyPerformance found out what we were doing and wanted them so they stepped up and worked with CNC to bring the product to everyone else.

I'll assume the guy from Poly was talking about me as they were my idea and I'm in Moab right now.

For your application, things are a little different than the original intentions we had...You need to tell me how you want them to work. First, cutting brakes with a spool lock up both sides of that axle as the spool connects everything so I'm assuming you're using the single unit, one direction of push for front, and the other for rear. That would mean you would plumb the rear section of the master cylinder to the cutting brake cylinder that is being pushed...pretty straight forward. Without seeing photos of what you've done, I can only say this...the fitting that comes out the side of the cutting brake cylinder, near the middle, go to the axles...the fitting that's in the end and the fitting that is in the top come FROM the brake Master Cylinders.

I'm swamped with running trails and getting ready for XRRA this weekend so I can't say I'll reply right away, but if you've got fluid coming out of a M/C when you push the brake, you've got something plumbed wrong.

Let's do this...Here's two scenarios, both assuming you want to make it so you push forward to lock the front brakes and to pull back to lock the rear brakes. All of this is based on the assumption that you bought a single handle and will use one side for the front and one for the rear.

if you're mounting the cutting brake with the cylinders in front of the handle (which is what I saw in your photo), Route the brakeline from the rear-end port of your master cylinder to the end of the lower cutting brake piston. The line going fromt the cutting brake and going to the rear brakes will come out from the side of the lower piston, about halfway along its length. The brakeline coming from the front end port of the master cylinder will go into the top of the top cutting brake cylinder, at the end furthest from the handle (where the bleeder port is on the 1 in / 2 out systems) and then the line from the cutting brake to the front axle will go from the side of the top cylinder (near the middle) to the front brakes.

If you're mounting the cutting brake with the cylinders behind the handle, plumb the top cylinder as the rear and the bottom cylinder as the front, but in a similar configuration as I described above, only switching the cylinders due to the different layout in the vehicle...this still allows you to push for front and pull for rear.

Best of luck...and yes, cutting brakes on the front do work...even if they are locking up both sides...and for the guy that said it helps you slide downhill...you're right to bring that up as it's a tool. We actually burn uphill quite often too. It's not always possible, but sometimes it's very helpful. Also, it's cool to do stoppies in a crawler That's how I did the stoppie in Haulin or Crawlin II.

Finally, you owe me a beer...I'm sitting here typing, when I shoud be running a night run on Pritchett...oh well, I've been here for 4 days and have 6 more to go...I'll work a midnight pritchett run in next week

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Old 04-06-2007, 09:30 AM   #13 (permalink)
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if you're mounting the cutting brake with the cylinders in front of the handle (which is what I saw in your photo), Route the brakeline from the rear-end port of your master cylinder to the end of the lower cutting brake piston. The line going fromt the cutting brake and going to the rear brakes will come out from the side of the lower piston, about halfway along its length. The brakeline coming from the front end port of the master cylinder will go into the top of the top cutting brake cylinder, at the end furthest from the handle (where the bleeder port is on the 1 in / 2 out systems) and then the line from the cutting brake to the front axle will go from the side of the top cylinder (near the middle) to the front brakes.
Thats exactly what I am doing. Thanks for taking the time! I have the lines reversed for sure....

I wish I could make it down to moab this year...school is just taking up to much time for fun like that now. If we ever cross paths I'll be sure to buy you a or 24
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Old 01-02-2009, 11:30 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Anyone ever take one of these apart

After I went back and plumbed it correctly it seams to leak internally. It's not pushing back to the master cylinder like before but it's slowly loosing pressure. I'm assuming that the seals were one-way and when I ran it plumbed backwards I hurt them.

I called poly right away and they said that they didn't have a seal kit for them but they should be standard stuff and I should be able to source o-rings locally.

Fast forward to tonight; I am finally taking the time to pull it apart while I have the cab torn apart cleaning up things for our spring Moab trip and it's fighting me. It seams to have a single set screw holding the gland on the end of the cylinder but I can't for the life of me pop the damn gland out. I even turned the truck on and tried to use the regular master cylinder pressure to pop it out with no luck. I have managed to chew up the end with every set of pliers I could find. There has got to be a way to pop this thing out....

Thanks
ROB
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Old 01-03-2009, 06:51 AM   #15 (permalink)
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FYI it's also pretty easy to turn a 1 in 2 out into a 2 in 2 out if you need to. Just remove the bleeder valve, you'll see a hole in the bottom of the port, drill and tap that 10-32 and put a set screw in with some lock-tight on it. Then replace the bleeder valve with a brake line adapter like on the other ports.
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Old 01-03-2009, 09:31 AM   #16 (permalink)
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I called poly right away and they said that they didn't have a seal kit for them but they should be standard stuff and I should be able to source o-rings locally.
Not sure who you spoke to but there ARE seal kits available.
Call my direct line for more info.

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Old 01-05-2009, 10:51 AM   #17 (permalink)
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there ARE seal kits available.
Thanks Dave, if I can get this thing appart I'll order up a kit.

ROB
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