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Old 06-16-2007, 02:11 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Front brake setup. 1 line vs 2 lines

I was searching through my FSM looking for distinguishing fact that I should definitely run 2 separate brake lines for the front brakes. I also searched through countless brake threads with little advice.

On my combo valve I have 2 ports for the front brakes on my 99 wrangler. I had to remove the passenger side brake line when I cut off the front of my frame. Now I would like to simplify it and run 1 front brake line off the combo valve to a T splitter on the axle and run hard line out similar to what is on the rear axle. My junk does not have ABS and I can't recall any other reason to run 2 separate lines.

Anyone run their brakes this way with success? I would rather have one line droop to the axle versus 2 if possible. Any reason to run 2 separate lines off the combo valve? Front axle is a Chevy 60 with 1 ton brakes. MC is a Ram 3500. Combo valve is stock for the moment.
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Old 06-16-2007, 03:30 PM   #2 (permalink)
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On my CJ i T'd the two ports and dropped one braided line to the center of the axle and hard line to rubber lines at the calipers. Eliminated the dist. block since and run adjustable prop valve. Works great
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Old 06-16-2007, 03:59 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I run a single line on my cars and I prefer it as it keeps everything neat and clean. I pulled off the splitter on the jeep and run a single line to the front and single line to the back, straight off the master.
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Old 06-16-2007, 05:30 PM   #4 (permalink)
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That's awesome. I didn't think to ditch the combo valve. I need to run a separate PV for the rear discs. This way I can clean everything up and run my stuff back to the firewall.
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Old 02-14-2011, 05:07 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Looking to do this on my wife's TJ, run 4 short OEM style hoses. One each at the knuckles of course, and two at either end of the upper control arm. Just T'ing it off on the housing.

Any reason I can't just block the second line coming off at the combo valve and run one line off the combo valve? I'm trying to keep an OEM style function (no proportioning valve).



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Old 02-14-2011, 05:41 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Travis Waldher View Post
Looking to do this on my wife's TJ, run 4 short OEM style hoses. One each at the knuckles of course, and two at either end of the upper control arm. Just T'ing it off on the housing.

Any reason I can't just block the second line coming off at the combo valve and run one line off the combo valve? I'm trying to keep an OEM style function (no proportioning valve).
I'll look closer, but the last time I had a combo valve apart, it was little more than a T for what you are asking as in the front two parts are just on opposite sides of the block and common to each other internally.
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Old 02-14-2011, 05:59 PM   #7 (permalink)
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My front brakes are split like the rears, one line from the master, down the driver arm and T on the housing to each caliper. Fluid pushes the pistons just fine.
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Old 02-14-2011, 06:21 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Chrysler did this OEM on 2nd gen Dodge Rams(94-2002) 1/2 ton, not sure about 3/4 and 1 ton.

They have a funky hose on one side that splits it both ways at the axle... I found out because they have STUPID long hoses, like 36-48" long, and when I compared the left side has 2 female ports... one is the master cylinder line, and the other goes to the right side hose.

This all happens at the frame, but it is still a Y system like what you are proposing to do.



FWIW I plan on doing something similar, running 70 Chevette rubber hoses(about 10" in length) at the calipers. I think running a hard line to my UCA frame mount, small flex hose, hard line along the UCA, another small flex hose with a T or Y split at the end, then hardlines along the axle out to the Chevette hoses at the calipers.
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Old 02-14-2011, 06:51 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I think ford did it that way too, on the 78/9 bronco at least
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Old 02-15-2011, 06:53 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Anyone have part numbers, or a vehicle to reference when looking for the soft lines to fit this application? I gave up on this type of routing after spending over an hour opening every box at Oriely trying to find the correct lines.
-a long hose with a splitter on the axle end
-a ~foot long hose for axle to caliper mount.
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Old 02-15-2011, 07:04 AM   #11 (permalink)
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I'm planning to do on the front of my wife's Jeep that I did on the rear of mine.

Hardline on frame rail
8-10" rubber line (OEM part)
hardline down control arm
8-10" rubber line (OEM part)
T fitting
hard line down either side of the axle
Shortest rubber OEM style banjo line I can make work.

Unfortunately, after nearly 10 years, I've lost the part number for the 8-10" rubber lines so I'm going to have to search the hard way again for those too.

I saw some promising lines in autozone the other day looking for a temp fix on her Jeep. I'm going to have to fix her brake issues this weekend though because it can't go wheeling until a permanent fix is in place.

When I get this done, I'll come back with at least part numbers and the store.




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Old 02-15-2011, 07:12 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Anyone have part numbers, or a vehicle to reference when looking for the soft lines to fit this application? I gave up on this type of routing after spending over an hour opening every box at Oriely trying to find the correct lines.
-a long hose with a splitter on the axle end
-a ~foot long hose for axle to caliper mount.
http://http://www.oreillyauto.com/si...yword=bh106330

that what you're looking for?
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Old 02-15-2011, 07:16 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Copied and pasted from another site I frequent, here's how I did mine, front & rear.

1) Split the rear lines at the rear crossmember and run them down the top of the lower links. Use a 1985 Plymouth Reliant K rear brake hose (Napa UBP38064) for the soft lines (8.25" of rubber hose, standard 3/8" flare at each end, less than $10 each). Use one per side from the crossmember to the links, hardline down the top of the links, and then a 1985 Chevy Chevette front brake hose (Napa UBP36832) from the hardline to the calipers ($15.95, 15" long). Nothing mounted to the axle, and the rear is done for less than $60 with easily serviceable parts that are common at any parts store in the country. If you're planning on running cutting brakes, running the plumbing this way makes them an easy addition if you don't have them already.

2) Use the same Reliant K hose from a hardline to the upper link in the front, small length of hardline on the link, a 1982 Dodge W250 center front brake hose (Napa UBP38090) from the hardline down to the axle ($20 and solves the flex line and axle T in one shot). Hardlines from the T out towards each caliper, then use the softlines of your choice (mine are from the same truck, $18 each). Again, readily-available parts and you're into the front axle for less than $80.

3) I bought one 25' foot coil to do my whole XJ, have re-done some lines since then, and still have a bunch left.

4) Going through RockAuto instead of Napa to do the layout as above, the Reliant K hoses are $5 each, the front center Dodge hose is $13, left and right caliper lines are $10. So that bumps the price down to ~$50 for the rear and ~$60 for the front.

I haven't had any problems with this arrangement in two and a half years, but it's nice to know that if I ever do have an issue, it's easily solved with standard auto store parts instead of some specialty fittings.
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Old 02-15-2011, 07:25 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Seems some of the links are dead or inconvenient...to clarify:

1985 Reliant K rear brake hose, Napa UP 38064, 8.75" length:



1985 Chevy Chevette front brake hose, Napa UP 36832, 14" length:



1982 Dodge W250 center front hose, Napa UP 38090, 12.625" length w/tee:



If you want an even longer hose to T at the axle, the rear hose from that same application is 26", Napa UP 38243:

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Old 02-15-2011, 07:29 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Regarding the combo valve. I'm running a stock proportioning valve from a 1995 Jeep Grand Cherokee w/rear disc brakes. This is a little 2-in/2-out block, and as I said, I just ran a hardline from it down to the frame-side upper link mount for the front, the little flex line to the link, etc.

With the large single-piston Dana 60 calipers up front and the 1/2-ton Chevy calipers on the back, the braking is well balanced and more than adequate to lock up 40's. Master cylinder is for a 1998 Dodge Ram 2500, if that matters.
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Old 02-15-2011, 07:39 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Vette those pictures are worth a thousand words, thanks!

Those lines with the built in T's are slick looking, I wasn't sure they came in a simple clean shape like that. I'll be doing this on both axles for sure
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Old 02-15-2011, 07:44 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Yep, they're nice to use. The middle hole is just a through-hole so mounting is as easy as just welding a bolt somewhere onto the axle tube/truss.
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Old 02-15-2011, 07:49 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Keep in mind if you do that you will need to have a fairly substantial loop at the caliper to allow the full range of wheel travel to not kink the line or mess up your fitting, and look at if the direction your fitting on the caliper points to make sure it isnt going to cause problems if you do this.
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Old 02-15-2011, 07:53 AM   #19 (permalink)
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I run my front brakes this way.

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Old 02-15-2011, 07:59 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Keep in mind if you do that you will need to have a fairly substantial loop at the caliper to allow the full range of wheel travel to not kink the line or mess up your fitting, and look at if the direction your fitting on the caliper points to make sure it isnt going to cause problems if you do this.
Not the best photo of it, but my front lines at the caliper are also from the '82 Dodge W250...



(only made sense, given that's what the axle is out of...)

They have a flat plate with a hole in it at the flare fitting end; again, just weld a bolt somewhere on the axle out by the knuckle and mount 'em up. Part numbers UP 38049 and 38050 (right and left).



Length is 9.375".
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Old 02-15-2011, 08:16 AM   #21 (permalink)
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I did the tee at the front housing - hasn't run under it's own power yet but I'm sure it'll be fine.



At the axle housing to knuckle, don't underestimate how much flex line you're going to need. Figure out where you can mount on the housing and pull some measurements. I was surprised to discover I needed over 12" to get my full steering angle and clear other potential "pinch points."

I have a 60 in the front with just under 40 degrees of steering.
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Old 02-15-2011, 09:33 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Keep in mind if you do that you will need to have a fairly substantial loop at the caliper to allow the full range of wheel travel to not kink the line or mess up your fitting, and look at if the direction your fitting on the caliper points to make sure it isnt going to cause problems if you do this.
I was going to attempt to run a hardline along the top of the tube close to where the inner C is welded on. Maybe put in a 90 elbow.

Then run a short rubber banjo line looped up and down from the hard line to the caliper, attached to the caliper "pointing up" for lack of better words.

But I'll have to get the tires off and look closer, not a lot of room on the housing with the spring buckets right there.



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Old 02-15-2011, 10:09 AM   #23 (permalink)
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I have a Ford KP HP 60 in the front (stock twin piston calipers) and then a Ruff Stuff disc brake conversion out back using the 73-87 Chevy K20 calipers (can also use El Dorado calipers).

I am wondering, are all the banjo bolts the same? I mean, can I just use the soft brake lines you guys are showing to do mine?
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Old 02-15-2011, 10:12 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
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I have a Ford KP HP 60 in the front (stock twin piston calipers) and then a Ruff Stuff disc brake conversion out back using the 73-87 Chevy K20 calipers (can also use El Dorado calipers).

I am wondering, are all the banjo bolts the same? I mean, can I just use the soft brake lines you guys are showing to do mine?
There are different diameter banjo bolts. The ones on your D60 are going to be bigger than the ones on my D30. I think 3/8" vs. 7/16" or something like that.



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Old 02-15-2011, 10:23 AM   #25 (permalink)
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There are different diameter banjo bolts. The ones on your D60 are going to be bigger than the ones on my D30. I think 3/8" vs. 7/16" or something like that.
If you need to enlarge the hole in the banjo fitting slightly with a drill, it's not hard to do. Just make sure you don't exceed the diameter of the sealing grooves for the crush washer. I modify banjo fittings in all kinds of ways pretty often with no issues.

Do not try to bend the little standpipe that comes out of them, that breaks the brazed bond every single time and the tube falls out. You would think I would have learned after the first one, but I just couldn't be convinced that it wasn't a faulty solder joint.
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