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Old 09-03-2002, 07:54 AM   #1 (permalink)
cmk
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dana 60 ff drive flanges?

This question may be geared more for those involved with desert racing ... camo?

Does anyone make a drive flange conversion kit for rear d60 full floaters ... say Ford late 70's style axles?

I know I can get the shafts cranked out from Mark Williams (or others) w/o too much trouble, but I'm stumped in trying to find a drive flange ... say 35 spline. I know MW can crank them out special, but I'd hate to ask what they want for two of 'em.

Anyone have the skinny?

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Old 09-03-2002, 08:02 AM   #2 (permalink)
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what are you gunning for here?
a splined axle shaft at both ends with a broached drive plate at the ends like Warn and Dana full-time front axles use?

I'd think for the $300+ for the custom axle shafts and the custom drive flanges, you'd almost be better off paying the $600 for the Warn Dana 60 blank kit. (they probably cost $900 by now)
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Old 09-03-2002, 08:08 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sundowner
what are you gunning for here?
a splined axle shaft at both ends with a broached drive plate at the ends like Warn and Dana full-time front axles use?

I'd think for the $300+ for the custom axle shafts and the custom drive flanges, you'd almost be better off paying the $600 for the Warn Dana 60 blank kit. (they probably cost $900 by now)
Yulp ... "dual" splined shafts and a broached bolt on flange. The setup is nothing out of the oridnary. It's used in racing circles every day of the week. I just have yet to see a simple kit made available for four wheelers.

A pair of MW custom length 35 spline shafts is an EASY to spend the $300 I earned blowin' giz in a cup all weekend.

Warn Dana 60 blank kit? What's that? Blank flanged shafts? Or lockouts? Regardless, I want neither flanged shafts nor lockouts.

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Old 09-03-2002, 08:22 AM   #4 (permalink)
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the warn "blank kit" came with 35 spline shafts splined at one end, then you cut to length and spline the other end for your application. the rest of it is justlike any other warn FF kit with the spindles, hubs and chice of lockouts or drive flanges (like the dana front FT slugs).

but if you're going custom, why not just go spool with 40 spline gun-drilled shafts? (you might chafe yourself trying to pay for that one, tho )
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Old 09-03-2002, 08:27 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sundowner
the warn "blank kit" came with 35 spline shafts splined at one end, then you cut to length and spline the other end for your application. the rest of it is justlike any other warn FF kit with the spindles, hubs and chice of lockouts or drive flanges (like the dana front FT slugs).

but if you're going custom, why not just go spool with 40 spline gun-drilled shafts? (you might chafe yourself trying to pay for that one, tho )
I C. I'm guessing for what it would cost me to purchase the blank warns and have them splined locally, I can get the MW 35'ers custom made cheaper.

40 spline? I won't be putting enough torque through the shafts to warrant that large of a spline.

Gun drilled? If I'm really that concerned about weight, I'll take a healthy dump before I go out wheeling.

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Old 09-03-2002, 08:34 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally posted by cmk

Gun drilled? If I'm really that concerned about weight, I'll take a healthy dump before I go out wheeling.

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Old 09-03-2002, 08:34 AM   #7 (permalink)
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What about making an end cap with the correct pattern to bolt to your hubs, and then have someone (Moser, WMS, MW,Etc...) Broach the 35 spline into that?
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Old 09-03-2002, 08:34 AM   #8 (permalink)
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$50/side is going rate for spling around here, if that helps.

Quote:
Gun drilled? If I'm really that concerned about weight, I'll take a healthy dump before I go out wheeling.
well, hi-fiber breakfast cereal IS cheaper than gun drilling...
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Old 09-03-2002, 08:39 AM   #9 (permalink)
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What about making an end cap with the correct pattern to bolt to your hubs, and then have someone (Moser, WMS, MW,Etc...) Broach the 35 spline into that?
it'd have to be made out of something HS like Cro-Mo. or the like.

how do you plan on sealing the end of the cap? is it going to be through-broached, or will it bottom in the cap to prevent leakage?
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Old 09-03-2002, 08:42 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Originally posted by rodzzilla
What about making an end cap with the correct pattern to bolt to your hubs, and then have someone (Moser, WMS, MW,Etc...) Broach the 35 spline into that?
That is the same end result I am looking for, but rather than messing around with my "Bubba' Fab" skills, I would sooner trust something like this to someone more experienced that knows what alloy to use, what thickness, and has CNC capabilities.

Hogging something out with a drill press and a grinder is NOT the way to make a trustworthy drive flange.

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Old 09-03-2002, 08:45 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally posted by Sundowner
how do you plan on sealing the end of the cap? is it going to be through-broached, or will it bottom in the cap to prevent leakage?
Every one I have seen was through-broached (blind broach?!) and had a small, thin "cover" that was held on with 3 or 4 small fasteners and had an o-ring seal. That removable cover also allows the shaft to be slid out without removing the entire flange.

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Old 09-03-2002, 11:41 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Call Dave (PIG) @ [URL=http://polyperformance.com], he has exactly what you are looking fore, 35 spline that use the cone washers.
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Old 09-03-2002, 02:32 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Call Dave (PIG) @ [URL=http://polyperformance.com], he has exactly what you are looking fore, 35 spline that use the cone washers.
Yes, what the goat said. Just sent you an email cmk.
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Old 09-03-2002, 02:37 PM   #14 (permalink)
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... got it. Thanks.

I'll be looking forward to the upcoming "new product."

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Old 09-03-2002, 06:07 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Killer Axles has some. Bet they are $$$$
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Old 09-03-2002, 06:19 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally posted by rodzzilla
Killer Axles has some. Bet they are $$$$
I'm assumig you mean the "thingies" at the bottom of the page ... with no description. They do look like drive flanges, but with no information given, one is left guessing.

cm "I'll wait and see what info polyperf has to offer" k
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Old 09-03-2002, 08:38 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by cmk


A pair of MW custom length 35 spline shafts is an EASY to spend the $300 I earned blowin' giz in a cup all weekend.

cmk
Now there is a quote
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Old 09-03-2002, 09:21 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by cmk


That removable cover also allows the shaft to be slid out without removing the entire flange.

cmk
Wouldn't the axle have to be splined the entire length or neck way down to be removed from the outside though the broached splines of the flange. Correct me if I'm wrong just curious

Thanks Jon
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Old 09-03-2002, 10:11 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Wouldn't the axle have to be splined the entire length or neck way down to be removed from the outside though the broached splines of the flange. Correct me if I'm wrong just curious

Thanks Jon
You are correct. Splining the entire shaft is obviously not an intelligent route to go so the shafts commonly neck down inboard of the splines.

Now before everyone gets up in arms about "neck downs," keep this is mind;

The torque load carried by the splines is not carried at the circumference (max o.d.) of the splines. It's carried down closer to the center of the splines (pitch diameter). That pitch diameter isn't even a solid piece of metal ... it is made up of the peaks and valleys of the splines (intermittent metal).

Therefore, a proper "neck down" is no weaker than the splines attached to it. For a good explanation of this, go to Mark William's web site and request one of their free catalogs. It has an excellent tech section that explains this and other details of axles very well.

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Old 09-04-2002, 05:14 AM   #20 (permalink)
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agreed, but necking down the shaft creates (or increases) a torsion spring effect. springing high strengh steel causes work hardending, and work hardening causes shattering. you can always pick out the work hardened shafts in the junk pile, they have a spiral fracture at about 45* to the axis of the shaft.

the other option is a billet piece with the splines cut into it. the stress risers will move to where the splines end in the shaft. you're right that initally the shaft will be the roughly the same strength as the necked down shaft, but any failure will be ductile, and just twist the shaft apart.

the difference is that the billet shaft will lose it's strength more slowly than the necked down shaft over time. But this could be irrelevant, since that could take years, depending on how you drive.
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Old 09-04-2002, 07:24 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally posted by Sundowner
agreed, but necking down the shaft creates (or increases) a torsion spring effect. springing high strengh steel causes work hardending, and work hardening causes shattering. you can always pick out the work hardened shafts in the junk pile, they have a spiral fracture at about 45* to the axis of the shaft.

the other option is a billet piece with the splines cut into it. the stress risers will move to where the splines end in the shaft. you're right that initally the shaft will be the roughly the same strength as the necked down shaft, but any failure will be ductile, and just twist the shaft apart.
Rather than typing up everything in Mark Williams' catalog, get yourself one. They answer that question quite directly.

cm "I'll trust the MW crew before anyone that claims that 'engineers suck' " k
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Old 09-04-2002, 08:23 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sundowner
agreed, but necking down the shaft creates (or increases) a torsion spring effect. springing high strengh steel causes work hardending, and work hardening causes shattering. you can always pick out the work hardened shafts in the junk pile, they have a spiral fracture at about 45* to the axis of the shaft.

the other option is a billet piece with the splines cut into it. the stress risers will move to where the splines end in the shaft. you're right that initally the shaft will be the roughly the same strength as the necked down shaft, but any failure will be ductile, and just twist the shaft apart.

the difference is that the billet shaft will lose it's strength more slowly than the necked down shaft over time. But this could be irrelevant, since that could take years, depending on how you drive.

Please, nobody listen to this nonsense.
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Old 09-04-2002, 08:27 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Rather than typing up everything in Mark Williams' catalog, get yourself one. They answer that question quite directly.
cm "I'll trust the MW crew before anyone that claims that 'engineers suck' " k
1) I didn't read the MW catalog, just stating what I know. sorry if I was running on.

2) I AM an engineer.
and trust me, we suck.
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Old 09-04-2002, 08:32 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Originally posted by cmk


I'm assumig you mean the "thingies" at the bottom of the page ... with no description. They do look like drive flanges, but with no information given, one is left guessing.

cm "I'll wait and see what info polyperf has to offer" k
Don't blame ya.
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Old 09-04-2002, 08:36 AM   #25 (permalink)
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2) I AM an engineer.
and trust me, we suck.
Speak for yourself dude. I didn't bust my ass through 4 years of private engineering school and acrue enough loans to buy a damn Ferrari to listen to someone else generalizing about all engineers "sucking."

Take it back bitch!

cmk

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