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Old 07-30-2019, 12:04 PM   #4001 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unklhuck View Post
Comparing SD60 stuff to SD60 stuff. Depending on when you catch them you have to wait on RCV, too. Let alone the $$$ difference. You can purchase the entire OEM axle set for less than the regular RCV 60 stuff. Wonder how much more you could save running OEM over the big bell stuff.
I don't know what kind of prices you get for the OEM stuff, but the most expensive RCV package with a dana60 sized joint and 300m shafts is $3200. I was quoted more than that for the OEM stuff.

Big bells is $3995 retail and you can find it cheaper (around $3600) if you shop around. And the big bells fit in a regular SD60 after you open up the inner bore of the knuckle.

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We have to use RCV for a few of our applications and it works. I just know quite few people that have blown through their RCV warranties and I’ve had to deal with several trail repairs, myself.
I don't know of anyone that blew through their RCV warranty with big bells.

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Apples to apples, what’s the big bell stuff cost and how is it holding up? We will be installing a set of the big bell axles on a new buggy build running a front 05 SD60, soon. I’ll learn firsthand how they hold up, after the buggy gets some AZ trails under its belt. Until then, I don’t have any first hand experience with them.
You must not be very familiar with rock bouncing then. They hold up to 1000+hp applications in many rigs.

And I, firsthand, have never seen any break.



What I really like about the OEM stuff is that it accepts more angle than the big bells.
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Old 07-30-2019, 01:13 PM   #4002 (permalink)
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info on Ford Super Duty Dana 60 axle

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bebop View Post
I don't know what kind of prices you get for the OEM stuff, but the most expensive RCV package with a dana60 sized joint and 300m shafts is $3200. I was quoted more than that for the OEM stuff.

Big bells is $3995 retail and you can find it cheaper (around $3600) if you shop around. And the big bells fit in a regular SD60 after you open up the inner bore of the knuckle.



I don't know of anyone that blew through their RCV warranty with big bells.



You must not be very familiar with rock bouncing then. They hold up to 1000+hp applications in many rigs.

And I, firsthand, have never seen any break.



What I really like about the OEM stuff is that it accepts more angle than the big bells.


Ya, totally not familiar with the bouncing crowd, outside of our Maine buddy Joe. Shared the trail with the Main Maniac, quite a few times, but thatís been on AZ and JV trails. Heís got good things to say about them and thatís why a set will end up in the new build. I paid well under $3K for my Ouverson stuff, but I got a solid deal-an 05 SD60 housing, a set of NIB factory rotors, a NIB set of EBC yellow pads, a set of good unit bearings and the complete Ouverson axle set for $3,100... not everyone is going to be able to step into that deal, however.

The reduced steering angle is a bit of a bummer and that will impact the new build. Iíll make sure to bring it up with the owner. Thanks for the info.
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Old 07-31-2019, 08:57 PM   #4003 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by wellstig1 View Post
Might as well buy RCV axles by the time you get shafts with these joints, nearly the same price. If you ever break a part there is only one company to deal with for warranty.


Meh... RCV has a good rep for warranties, because folks need to use it, regularly... (Plus you need to add the wait time for your replacement RCV’s...) Then, you keep breaking them and they end up not warrantying them any longer. Has happened to a few folks I know. Why not just buy something stronger and cheaper for your 05+ SD60 axle. There are better and cheaper options available than RCV, for sure.
I called ouverson after seeing your build to inquire about those shafts. For starters, they quoted me about $1000 more than I paid for 300m rcv shafts. I also asked if it was possible to make the stub usable with the pilot bearing and 35 or 40 spline so it could be used with a lockout, they said they had no plans for it. This is a daily driver that I drive to and from trails, so that un-piloted stub would be an issue if they see a ton of miles, wobbling in the unit bearing. RCV shipped my order within a day or two of ordering, I was told by them they stock plenty of stubs/bells/inners for sd60 axles. At this time there still aren't any cheaper options for stronger than stock sd60 axles.
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Old 08-01-2019, 05:18 AM   #4004 (permalink)
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I don't know what kind of prices you get for the OEM stuff, but the most expensive RCV package with a dana60 sized joint and 300m shafts is $3200. I was quoted more than that for the OEM stuff.
Are we talking about the OEM 1550 shafts? Those should be well under a grand no matter where you buy them.
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Old 08-01-2019, 05:29 AM   #4005 (permalink)
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Are we talking about the OEM 1550 shafts? Those should be well under a grand no matter where you buy them.


The OEM 1550 shafts are like $350 for both from Dennyís driveshaft last time I looked.


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Old 08-01-2019, 05:49 AM   #4006 (permalink)
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Are we talking about the OEM 1550 shafts? Those should be well under a grand no matter where you buy them.
Sorry, by OEM I meant Ouverson and not stock Ford parts. They get abbreviated the same and it's confusing, I'll give you that.
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Old 08-01-2019, 05:54 AM   #4007 (permalink)
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Ha, my apologies for being an idiot.


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Old 08-01-2019, 09:34 AM   #4008 (permalink)
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I called ouverson after seeing your build to inquire about those shafts. For starters, they quoted me about $1000 more than I paid for 300m rcv shafts. I also asked if it was possible to make the stub usable with the pilot bearing and 35 or 40 spline so it could be used with a lockout, they said they had no plans for it. This is a daily driver that I drive to and from trails, so that un-piloted stub would be an issue if they see a ton of miles, wobbling in the unit bearing. RCV shipped my order within a day or two of ordering, I was told by them they stock plenty of stubs/bells/inners for sd60 axles. At this time there still aren't any cheaper options for stronger than stock sd60 axles.
The question was about the big OEM stuff vs big bells. If you're going with those options, you want 40 splines inners and I'd venture to say that locking hubs are dumb for a max strength application

But they both are way stronger than the classic dana 60 size RCV bells AND fit in 05+ SD60 knuckles...

In a standard sized joint (1480 or dana 60 sized bell), I'd say the strongest option is probably CTM 300M shafts, but the delay is insane. RCV 300M come a close second and they have them in stock like you mentionned.

Seems like you got what you needed from them
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Old 08-01-2019, 10:43 AM   #4009 (permalink)
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Jack was my first call, $4000+ for shafts and 6+ month wait was a definite no go for me. I know lockouts aren't ideal, but are the best way to go for a rig that sees 10k+ miles per year. I went with the warn hubs that I got for $200 on Ebay for a little extra piece of mind with their lifetime warranty and chromoly collars, also rcv now makes 300m collars for the sd lockouts. Dan, the owner of fusion 4x4 says he is pretty close to having chromoly 1550 inners and stubs. available in 35 and 40 spline.
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Old 08-01-2019, 11:05 AM   #4010 (permalink)
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Tons of jeeps drive with a dana30 and no lock outs for 1000s of miles. I don't get the need for a lock out.

But it's your rig and what's important is that you're happy with it.
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Old 08-08-2019, 12:44 AM   #4011 (permalink)
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I just recently got my superduty front axe working under my Tacoma. But I need steering stops. What have others been doing about this? My psc Ram pushes a little far on one side and puts pressure on the steering box.
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Old 08-08-2019, 06:53 AM   #4012 (permalink)
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I just recently got my superduty front axe working under my Tacoma. But I need steering stops. What have others been doing about this? My psc Ram pushes a little far on one side and puts pressure on the steering box.
Short stroke the ram would be the correct method. There's threads on it around here.
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Old 08-08-2019, 07:02 AM   #4013 (permalink)
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Ha, my apologies for being an idiot.
I guess I'm in that group. Let's clarify this.

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Originally Posted by Bebop View Post
Sorry, by OEM I meant Ouverson and not stock Ford parts. They get abbreviated the same and it's confusing, I'll give you that.
OEM is widely known as "Original Equipment Manufacturer". A lot of people do not know Ouverson. I do know the name, but thorght they were Rockwell aftermarket. (Don't know their whole name)

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The question was about the big OEM stuff vs big bells. If you're going with those options, you want 40 splines inners and I'd venture to say that locking hubs are dumb for a max strength application

But they both are way stronger than the classic dana 60 size RCV bells AND fit in 05+ SD60 knuckles...

In a standard sized joint (1480 or dana 60 sized bell), I'd say the strongest option is probably CTM 300M shafts, but the delay is insane. RCV 300M come a close second and they have them in stock like you mentionned.

Seems like you got what you needed from them
So to make this clear for dummies...

The OEM 1550 shafts/joints are stronger than any companies 1480 sized stuff. (RCV or Ouverson and of course, OEM) They are also considerably less expensive.

Do I got this right?
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Old 08-08-2019, 09:04 AM   #4014 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by waterhorse View Post



So to make this clear for dummies...



The OEM 1550 shafts/joints are stronger than any companies 1480 sized stuff. (RCV or Ouverson and of course, OEM) They are also considerably less expensive.



Do I got this right?


Not exactly...

OEM, in the past few posts, was referring to Ouverson Engineering & Machine. Much easier to just type OEM. I use lower-case Ďoem or factoryí, when referring to original equipment... like it was stated earlier, itís easy to see how it could be confusing.

Donít know how a factory 1550 joint, which is smaller in every way, is stronger than the OEM Ujoints. Iíll repost the same pics from above. You can look up the exact specs of a 1550 Ujoint, if you like. I only include one in my comparison.



So, the OEM (Ouverson) Ujoint is a house machined/made CP750n or a 750n, which is a Rockwell/Meritor part number.
This is the OEM Ujoint referenced above.


There was also discussion of the big bell RCVís. They have a large bell and a similar sized outer stub. After seeing a set the other day, I wondered what the neck down before the stub splines was for? My OEM outers donít have it.

These are a buddyís RCV big bell parts:





Why the neck down, above?
None here:



Those two axle assemblies from OEM and RCV have 40 spline inners and they are not 1480.... they are bigger than 1480 and the OEM stuff is larger than 1550 stuff. Not sure how the big bell RCV stuff measures out, yet.

But, you are correct, the factory 1550 stuff is cheaper. Itís also smaller and weaker.

Remember that the 1550 cap is 1.375Ēs across
The OEM or 750nís cap is 1.626Ēs across.
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Old 08-08-2019, 01:14 PM   #4015 (permalink)
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Thank you for clarifying Unklhuck, spot on explanations.

If you have any doubt about the RCV big bells strength, this buggy uses them and hasn't broken any yet, even in a rear steer application. Pretty good testament of their strength if you ask me :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoObCK2SZS0
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Old 08-08-2019, 06:47 PM   #4016 (permalink)
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Not exactly...

Remember that the 1550 cap is 1.375”s across
The OEM or 750n’s cap is 1.626”s across.
I think you missed the point of my post. Actually, a couple points.

First, everybody knows OEM as "Original equipment manufacturer." It doesn't matter if you use caps or not, it is the first thing they think of. Why confuse them? If you don't want to type out Ouverson, engineering and machine, just type Ouverson. Everybody that has heard of them will know who you mean. Anyone that doesn't know them can just google. (They come right up)

Edit, if you google oem or OEM, Ouverson does not come up in the first three pages, but original equipment manufacturer comes up multiple times.

Second, the stuff you show is not 1480 stuff. You mention right in your post that the caps measure 1.626. How would you put that joint in a 1480 yoke? You'll note I said that OEM 1550 is stronger than 1480 stuff no matter who makes it.

My point is, you could buy a bling 1480 joint from Ouverson and put in your 60 or you could buy a whole axle with 1550 size joint for approx same money that would be stronger. Same could be said for RCV.

Obviously, If money is no object, move on up.
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Old 08-08-2019, 07:36 PM   #4017 (permalink)
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I wondered what the neck down before the stub splines was for? My OEM outers donít have it. .
weight savings

it's still larger than your inner axle diameter, and well radiused, so not really a significant stress riser
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Old 08-08-2019, 08:57 PM   #4018 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by waterhorse View Post
I think you missed the point of my post. Actually, a couple points.

First, everybody knows OEM as "Original equipment manufacturer." It doesn't matter if you use caps or not, it is the first thing they think of. Why confuse them? If you don't want to type out Ouverson, engineering and machine, just type Ouverson. Everybody that has heard of them will know who you mean. Anyone that doesn't know them can just google. (They come right up)

Edit, if you google oem or OEM, Ouverson does not come up in the first three pages, but original equipment manufacturer comes up multiple times.

Second, the stuff you show is not 1480 stuff. You mention right in your post that the caps measure 1.626. How would you put that joint in a 1480 yoke? You'll note I said that OEM 1550 is stronger than 1480 stuff no matter who makes it.

My point is, you could buy a bling 1480 joint from Ouverson and put in your 60 or you could buy a whole axle with 1550 size joint for approx same money that would be stronger. Same could be said for RCV.

Obviously, If money is no object, move on up.


You missed my point, retro-grouch. Most folks know that OEM, in this thread, is not referring to original equipment. Other folks have pointed this out, earlier. So, OEM has more than one meaning, these days. Get over it.

The axles we referenced never had 1480 Ujoints. You made that comparison and no your 1550 factory axles are not as strong as what was posted. Not once was a 1480 Ujoint from OEM, discussed. The shafts posted were 40 spline inners and had CP750n Ujoints that fit into those giant outer stubs.

No one purchased a 1480 Ujoint from Ouverson to mate with their axle set. The money spent on that bling was for the CP750n Ujoints in the Ouverson axles with the big outer stub or spent on a Big bell RCV axle.

You completely missed the facts.

How is a factory 1550 Ujoint stronger than a CP750n? That was the point of my post and the information provided in it.

Look again at the specs of the CP750n Ujoint. I screenshot them and they are in the first pic of my prior post. Itís much bigger on all measurements then the 1550 Ujoint you keep chattering about.
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Old 08-08-2019, 09:01 PM   #4019 (permalink)
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weight savings



it's still larger than your inner axle diameter, and well radiused, so not really a significant stress riser


Seems legit, but a wierd place to Ďcutí weight. Iíll have to get the some measurements of the neck down. Just seemed like a strange place to neck down, being within the unit bearing.
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Old 08-09-2019, 05:20 AM   #4020 (permalink)
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I think you missed the point of my post. Actually, a couple points.

First, everybody knows OEM as "Original equipment manufacturer." It doesn't matter if you use caps or not, it is the first thing they think of. Why confuse them? If you don't want to type out Ouverson, engineering and machine, just type Ouverson. Everybody that has heard of them will know who you mean. Anyone that doesn't know them can just google. (They come right up)

Edit, if you google oem or OEM, Ouverson does not come up in the first three pages, but original equipment manufacturer comes up multiple times.

Second, the stuff you show is not 1480 stuff. You mention right in your post that the caps measure 1.626. How would you put that joint in a 1480 yoke? You'll note I said that OEM 1550 is stronger than 1480 stuff no matter who makes it.

My point is, you could buy a bling 1480 joint from Ouverson and put in your 60 or you could buy a whole axle with 1550 size joint for approx same money that would be stronger. Same could be said for RCV.

Obviously, If money is no object, move on up.
Wow...

That's a lot of bitchin and you completely misunderstood everything that has been posted...

Ouverson never made any 1480 shafts or u-joints specifically for the SD60.
The 1550 ujoint axle from Ford is NOT stronger than a 1480 chromo shaft from any reputable company.

If you need a strength scale it would be (from weakest to strongest):

1) 35sp Ford 1480 shafts
2) 35sp Ford 1550 shafts
3) 35sp 4340 1480 shafts + 1480 300M u-joints
4) 35sp 300M 1480 shafts + 1480 300M u-joints
5) 40sp RCV shafts + RCV 300M Big bells AND/OR 40p Ouverson shafts + Ouverson 300M CP750n u-joints

The pricing structure follows the same logic.

IDK what's hard to understand I thought Unklhuck explained this very nicely.

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Old 08-09-2019, 05:21 AM   #4021 (permalink)
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Seems legit, but a wierd place to Ďcutí weight. Iíll have to get the some measurements of the neck down. Just seemed like a strange place to neck down, being within the unit bearing.
I can measure that tonight if you want.
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Old 08-09-2019, 07:00 AM   #4022 (permalink)
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Can someone explain to me what OEM means and the differences between a 1310, 1350, 1410, 1480, 1550, rockwell, and radio flyer red wagon joint is?

Thanks
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Old 08-09-2019, 07:02 AM   #4023 (permalink)
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Can someone explain to me what OEM means and the differences between a 1310, 1350, 1410, 1480, 1550, rockwell, and radio flyer red wagon joint is?

Thanks
I am 12 and what is this?
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Old 08-09-2019, 08:40 AM   #4024 (permalink)
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Can someone explain to me what OEM means and the differences between a 1310, 1350, 1410, 1480, 1550, rockwell, and radio flyer red wagon joint is?

Thanks


Finally, a glimmer of the old PBB.
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Old 08-09-2019, 11:52 AM   #4025 (permalink)
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You missed my point, retro-grouch. Most folks know that OEM, in this thread, is not referring to original equipment. Other folks have pointed this out, earlier. So, OEM has more than one meaning, these days. Get over it.

I have followed this thread for probably 8 years. I have heard the name Ouverson many times. I have never heard of them referred to as OEM except these last few posts. In fact, in all these years, I never knew their full name because nobody uses it. Please show me the quote where "other folks" are useing it. If you want to type in code, fine. But don't feed me a line of bull that it's common.

The axles we referenced never had 1480 Ujoints. You made that comparison and no your 1550 factory axles are not as strong as what was posted. Not once was a 1480 Ujoint from OEM, discussed. The shafts posted were 40 spline inners and had CP750n Ujoints that fit into those giant outer stubs.

All SD axles had 1480 stuff in them untill the OEM upgraded to 1550. 1480 joints have been discussed many times.

No one purchased a 1480 Ujoint from Ouverson to mate with their axle set. The money spent on that bling was for the CP750n Ujoints in the Ouverson axles with the big outer stub or spent on a Big bell RCV axle.

Many people have bought upgraded 1480 joints for their stock axles. Where have you been?

You completely missed the facts.

How is a factory 1550 Ujoint stronger than a CP750n? That was the point of my post and the information provided in it.

Look again at the specs of the CP750n Ujoint. I screenshot them and they are in the first pic of my prior post. Itís much bigger on all measurements then the 1550 Ujoint you keep chattering about.

I never said a 1550 is stronger than a CP750. I said it's stronger than any manufacturers 1480 joint. When I said that, I was actually saying it as a question. Bebop seems to think a 1480 300m is stronger than a OEM 1550. I would like to see some data on that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bebop View Post
If you need a strength scale it would be (from weakest to strongest):

1) 35sp Ford 1480 shafts
2) 35sp Ford 1550 shafts
3) 35sp 4340 1480 shafts + 1480 300M u-joints
4) 35sp 300M 1480 shafts + 1480 300M u-joints
5) 40sp RCV shafts + RCV 300M Big bells AND/OR 40p Ouverson shafts + Ouverson 300M CP750n u-joints.

Do you have any data or reference to support that scale?
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