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Old 01-24-2020, 06:44 PM   #4226 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by desertCJ View Post
I love the idea but $75 for a weld in threaded bung is steep. $35-$40 seems more in line but it's your business...

Edit: What I'd be more interested in are bushings to adapt Chevy 1 ton tie rod ends to the '05+ knuckles if possible?
Can't make them for even $40 my cost...
We have straight pin emf tie rods with a 3/4" shank and a 7/8" thread and the bushings to get that done in stock!
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Old 01-24-2020, 07:05 PM   #4227 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FORDTECHGURU View Post
Can't make them for even $40 my cost...
We have straight pin emf tie rods with a 3/4" shank and a 7/8" thread and the bushings to get that done in stock!
I want to use this steering setup on '05+ Ford knuckles...

https://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com...de=STEERINGKIT
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Old 01-25-2020, 09:17 AM   #4228 (permalink)
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How is your kit similar to double shear? Maybe I am missing something but it is still very much single shear from what I have seen. What size bolt does your kit utilize?

Not dogging you by the way just curious how you came to that conclusion and how the bolt size of your kit compares to the shank size of a lower BJ. I enjoy seeing different solutions to problems/weak links. Multiple options are always good.
The stock upper balljoints are smaller and they bend where the shank necks down as they exit the bushing. The radial stress they see at that point either bends the shank or acts as a leverage point and unseats the balljoint like a wine bottle opener. I did not see this however with putting the larger lower balljoint in the uppers position, only wearing the joint out which overall is an improvement.

My kit utilizes the largest diameter bolt possible that would still allow the hole to be offset in order to achieve 3* of caster/camber adjustment, which is 7/8. The bolt itself is rated at 170,000 psi tensile strength. Im not sure what the rating is for the stock balljoints upper or lower. Its less about comparing the size of the bolt/shank than it is the material theyre made of for relative strength.

The cups of my kit are inserted and welded into the outer steering knuckle instead of pressed in like a balljoint. I compare the 2 like single vs double sheer because the low profile steel insert locknut in the bottom side retains the assembly if something goes wrong. The pressed balljoint will simply unseat and then it gets ugly.,
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Old 01-25-2020, 11:51 AM   #4229 (permalink)
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40 spline big bell RCV's installed in a 14 bolt center with 05+ f250/f350 super duty 60 outers.

Nutless ball joint eliminators, clearanced lower ball joint studs, then ground the inner lip on the knuckles to fit them through.

Thinking the inner boot may be difficult to get apart if we need to pull the shafts, but it also has a 3/4" threaded hole on the end we can use a slide hammer or something and use the inside of the knuckle to hold the boot, aiding in pulling them back apart.

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Old 01-25-2020, 05:02 PM   #4230 (permalink)
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40 spline big bell RCV's installed in a 14 bolt center with 05+ f250/f350 super duty 60 outers.

Nutless ball joint eliminators, clearanced lower ball joint studs, then ground the inner lip on the knuckles to fit them through.

Thinking the inner boot may be difficult to get apart if we need to pull the shafts, but it also has a 3/4" threaded hole on the end we can use a slide hammer or something and use the inside of the knuckle to hold the boot, aiding in pulling them back apart.

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Axle pron!





Thanks for sharing.
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Old 01-25-2020, 05:12 PM   #4231 (permalink)
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Mine have been capable for the big bell RCV’s from day 1. Either way they’re an upgrade from a stock balljoint, but 1 has adjustability and the other is just locked in at 0* caster/camber.
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Old 01-25-2020, 05:45 PM   #4232 (permalink)
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I want to use this steering setup on '05+ Ford knuckles...

https://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com...de=STEERINGKIT

Very nice!
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Old 01-25-2020, 06:47 PM   #4233 (permalink)
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The stock upper balljoints are smaller and they bend where the shank necks down as they exit the bushing. The radial stress they see at that point either bends the shank or acts as a leverage point and unseats the balljoint like a wine bottle opener. I did not see this however with putting the larger lower balljoint in the uppers position, only wearing the joint out which overall is an improvement.

My kit utilizes the largest diameter bolt possible that would still allow the hole to be offset in order to achieve 3* of caster/camber adjustment, which is 7/8”. The bolt itself is rated at 170,000 psi tensile strength. I’m not sure what the rating is for the stock balljoints upper or lower. It’s less about comparing the size of the bolt/shank than it is the material they’re made of for relative strength.

The cups of my kit are inserted and welded into the outer steering knuckle instead of pressed in like a balljoint. I compare the 2 like single vs double sheer because the low profile steel insert locknut in the bottom side retains the assembly if something goes wrong. The pressed balljoint will simply unseat and then it gets ugly.,
Where are you getting the 170k tensile strength for your 7/8” bolt? What grade is it? I’m finding around 75k tensile strength for a 7/8” grade 8 bolt. I would argue that diameter of the bolt/ball joint shank is just as important as the grade of material being used since the combo of diameter and grade are a big part of what determines the tensile strength of a bolt. Maybe you were referencing the tensile strength of the material your bolts are made from which is a bit misleading since you also have to consider the tensile stress area of the fastener in question.

Last edited by DZ Fab; 01-25-2020 at 07:03 PM.
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Old 01-26-2020, 01:44 AM   #4234 (permalink)
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7/8 bolt up to 180,000 tensile.

https://www.mcmaster.com/screws
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Old 01-26-2020, 08:11 AM   #4235 (permalink)
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Hey guys, thinking of running a batch of tube adapters for ford tie rods 1"-16tpi and jam nuts so you can keep you stock tie rods and fab custom steering linkage. Being able to leave your pitman arm alone and just change your axle end seems to be a plus for alot of people or any other linkage with the currently unsupported 1"-16tpi stuff. A nice tube adapter and jam nut would be $75 retail. Gauging interest, who likes this idea, thanks..
If I understand this right, you are making bungs that the stock "offset" tierod ends can thread in to a presumably bigger tube. It would be nice to have a stronger tube there, but what about the clearance issue to the front of the diff? It's so f'ing close when turned to lock now. There's no issue if you have highsteer, but then why run stock tierod ends? Maybe I got this all wrong.
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Old 01-26-2020, 08:29 AM   #4236 (permalink)
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The stock upper balljoints are smaller and they bend where the shank necks down as they exit the bushing. The radial stress they see at that point either bends the shank or acts as a leverage point and unseats the balljoint like a wine bottle opener. I did not see this however with putting the larger lower balljoint in the uppers position, only wearing the joint out which overall is an improvement.

My kit utilizes the largest diameter bolt possible that would still allow the hole to be offset in order to achieve 3* of caster/camber adjustment, which is 7/8. The bolt itself is rated at 170,000 psi tensile strength. Im not sure what the rating is for the stock balljoints upper or lower. Its less about comparing the size of the bolt/shank than it is the material theyre made of for relative strength.

The cups of my kit are inserted and welded into the outer steering knuckle instead of pressed in like a balljoint. I compare the 2 like single vs double sheer because the low profile steel insert locknut in the bottom side retains the assembly if something goes wrong. The pressed balljoint will simply unseat and then it gets ugly.,
Things are moving to fast for waterhorse.

Your first paragraph makes sense. After that your losing me. When you say "largest bolt" are you meaning ballpoint? I have to admit, I've never cut open a balljoint. Is there a bolt inside the ball? I thought the shank was one piece with the ball. Are you disassembling the ball joints and changing the bolts?

When you ran the lower joint in the upper location, if I understand right, you had no caster or camber adjustment because you just machined the knuckle/C for the bigger parts. Caster can be achieved by other means. Did you have issues with camber?

As far as your last paragraph, do you have pics of your setup?
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Old 01-26-2020, 09:17 AM   #4237 (permalink)
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If I understand this right, you are making bungs that the stock "offset" tierod ends can thread in to a presumably bigger tube. It would be nice to have a stronger tube there, but what about the clearance issue to the front of the diff? It's so f'ing close when turned to lock now. There's no issue if you have highsteer, but then why run stock tierod ends? Maybe I got this all wrong.
These tube adapters fit the stock 99-04, 05-16 pitman arm joints and drag link joints or any other 1-16 tpi threaded joint. So you don't have to change the pitman arm joint or ream it to accept a gm joint with a 7/8" shank to make a custom draglink. The tie rods for the steering linkage are much larger..
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Old 01-26-2020, 09:24 AM   #4238 (permalink)
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Things are moving to fast for waterhorse.



Your first paragraph makes sense. After that your losing me. When you say "largest bolt" are you meaning ballpoint? I have to admit, I've never cut open a balljoint. Is there a bolt inside the ball? I thought the shank was one piece with the ball. Are you disassembling the ball joints and changing the bolts?



When you ran the lower joint in the upper location, if I understand right, you had no caster or camber adjustment because you just machined the knuckle/C for the bigger parts. Caster can be achieved by other means. Did you have issues with camber?



As far as your last paragraph, do you have pics of your setup?


He makes ball joint eliminator kits. It replaces the upper ball joint with a uniball and a bolt


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Old 01-26-2020, 09:25 AM   #4239 (permalink)
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These tube adapters fit the stock 99-04, 05-16 pitman arm joints and drag link joints or any other 1-16 tpi threaded joint. So you don't have to change the pitman arm joint or ream it to accept a gm joint with a 7/8" shank to make a custom draglink. The tie rods for the steering linkage are much larger..
Now I get it. You are talking draglink and I was thinking tierod. Thanks.
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Old 01-26-2020, 11:39 AM   #4240 (permalink)
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7/8 bolt up to 180,000 tensile.

https://www.mcmaster.com/screws
That's the raw material strength, not the bolt's clamping force. There's a difference. All Grade 8 bolts have a tensile strength of 150ksi to 180ksi.

https://www.fastenal.com/content/mer...ce%20Guide.pdf

Properly torqued, a 7/8 bolt provides a clamping force of around 42,000lbs. It's yield strength is likely around 56,000lbs, as torque specs are around 75% of the yield strength. Yield = plastic deformation, not fracture, so they don't quite break at 56,000lbs either but they will loosen up at this point and then be very prone to fracture.
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Old 01-26-2020, 12:12 PM   #4241 (permalink)
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That's the raw material strength, not the bolt's clamping force. There's a difference. All Grade 8 bolts have a tensile strength of 150ksi to 180ksi.

https://www.fastenal.com/content/mer...ce%20Guide.pdf

Properly torqued, a 7/8 bolt provides a clamping force of around 42,000lbs. It's yield strength is likely around 56,000lbs, as torque specs are around 75% of the yield strength. Yield = plastic deformation, not fracture, so they don't quite break at 56,000lbs either but they will loosen up at this point and then be very prone to fracture.
I understand what you are saying, the kits don’t solely rely on the tensile strength of the bolt vs that of a balljoint, it just aides in the strength of the assembly itself. For instance an SRRS competitor I sponsored last year had multiple occurrences of an upper BJ completely unseating from the knuckle in his axle using F550 outers. Before that he was bending shanks. My kit went on the axle and he never once had an issue with that area again. He sent the axle out for a complete overhaul and the company reached him saying the knuckles had cracked, the kit was still functioning 100%. This is the 1st case I’ve seen the F350-F550 cast steel knuckle fail, but between the time the kit was installed to the time the axle was retired it saw over 10 end over end rolls.

A balljoint will come unseated or break the shank long before a 170,000 psi tensile strength bolt fails. If the balljoint material was of equal strength less bent shanks would be seen, and more completely unseated balljoints would arise.

Last edited by 06silverback; 01-26-2020 at 12:17 PM.
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Old 01-28-2020, 01:49 PM   #4242 (permalink)
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I lie the idea of running lowers in the uppers...hm...


Why are the uppers smaller from factory anyway? Its that way on everything I know. But why?
In normal usage the lower ball joint is more heavily loaded than the upper, at least on IFS, I assume solid axles are the same. Manufacturers don't do that sort of thing arbitrarily.
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Old 01-28-2020, 02:00 PM   #4243 (permalink)
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Just checking in to say that it is good to see this thread still going strong. If I ever disable myself and cannot work I will volunteer to write the Super 60 bible.
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Old 01-28-2020, 07:12 PM   #4244 (permalink)
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Just checking in to say that it is good to see this thread still going strong. If I ever disable myself and cannot work I will volunteer to write the Super 60 bible.

Pinky swear?
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Old 01-29-2020, 03:45 AM   #4245 (permalink)
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Sure, so long as one of you does not come after my knees to get it done. Thought about that after.
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Old 01-29-2020, 07:06 AM   #4246 (permalink)
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Sure, so long as one of you does not come after my knees to get it done. Thought about that after.
Dammit, cancelling my flight.
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Old 01-30-2020, 07:06 PM   #4247 (permalink)
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Was told t stick this here. 2005 and up Ford Dana 60 HD seals

This message was put out by Ford on our dealership message board I have no idea what's in the kit but thought some here might be able to use the info. Jan 29 2020 9455 - 2005-2020 F-Super Duty 4x4 Front Hub Vacuum Seal Shield Kit Now Available Extreme Dust, Mud Or Tar Sand Conditions
Some 2005-2020 F-Super Duty 4x4 vehicles operated in extreme dust, mud or tar sand conditions may exhibit accelerated 4x4 vacuum hub seal and or wheel bearing wear as a result of harsh operating conditions. A knuckle seal shield kit is now available for customer purchase. The kit is designed for severe duty and is non warrantable. The knuckle seal shield kit GC3Z-54024A38-A includes an installation instruction sheet
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Old 01-30-2020, 07:13 PM   #4248 (permalink)
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Instead of the regular axle seals, or in addition?
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Old 01-31-2020, 05:37 AM   #4249 (permalink)
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40 spline big bell RCV's installed in a 14 bolt center with 05+ f250/f350 super duty 60 outers.

Nutless ball joint eliminators, clearanced lower ball joint studs, then ground the inner lip on the knuckles to fit them through.

Thinking the inner boot may be difficult to get apart if we need to pull the shafts, but it also has a 3/4" threaded hole on the end we can use a slide hammer or something and use the inside of the knuckle to hold the boot, aiding in pulling them back apart.

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Same axle I run.
Removing the bells is actually pretty easy if you wedge a couple zip ties between the bell and the boot.



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Old 01-31-2020, 06:22 AM   #4250 (permalink)
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Soo how good are the '05+ stock lockouts? Prioritizing upgrades, planning to do 1550 shafts and keep the 1480 as spares. Not sure drive flanges are in this years budget....or would that be a better investment with stock shafts?
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