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shocks for ultra 4

8K views 20 replies 15 participants last post by  Random Thoughts Race 
#1 ·
ok i have a pretty newb shock question for you ultra 4 and go fast guys. i am setting up my four seat rig to try to race the big reno race in september. i am shopping around for coilovers and going with 2.5s but my question is do i need to go triple rate? i have read the coilover bible but didnt see anything to clear on this. and if any one can explain what the triple rate is for that would be great. all i got from reading some things i found was you can drop ride height while still keeping a stiff shock setting? thanks for any input
 
#3 · (Edited)
springs set ride height
dampening controls the ride

buy 2.0 coilovers and atleast a 2.5 bypass in atleast a triple tube flavor. springs for 2.5s are about 2x expensive and limited in rates.

your kidneys will thank you
 
#4 ·
ttt



thanks guys for the info so far. will 2.0's with remote res stay cool over long distances as long as there ran with triple bypasses. i understand the bypasses iwll be doing the dampening then and the coiloves mainly supporting the weight of the rig.
 
#5 · (Edited)
Shocks convert kinetic energy to Heat. 2.0's and 2.5 do about the same job dampening the 2.5 has more oil and surface area so they will take longer to fade and the will cool a bit better. 2.5" ID springs are cheaper and come in a wider range of springs. If you are running bypasses the coilovers will have little or no valving. I have a big heavy rig and run 2.0 Coilovers and 2.0 bypasses in the rear.

Try to pick a shock that you can get support in tuning. It makes a huge difference. Downsouth Motorsports has great support on the shocks that they sell.
 
#6 ·
I just put my order in for Bilsteins. Joel was a ton of help and set me up for exactly what I need. I told him about my rig, the direction I wanted to go, all the weights and I got setup with 2.5" Black Hawk coilovers in the front. 2.0" coilovers and 2.5" bypasses in the rear.

I can call him and get a hold of him with any questions I have and he will help without skipping a beat. I have learned a lot just from our conversations over the phone.

And when I am at KOH next year he will help me tune them.

Pimping sponsor off....:flipoff2:

But really. There are a lot of really good shocks out there. Make sure you pick a company that can back you up when it comes to tuning and parts.
 
#7 ·
I agree with this ^

I have Bilstein's through my sponsor that is a vendor for them. Joel's support at the races is invaluable and hard to match by some of the other shock companies that have tons of drivers on their brand.

In general your shocks package is largely dictated by your rig and what you are doing with it.
 
#11 ·
I know you aren't asking which brand of shock but take a look at Radflo, they have won every KOH grand slam and IEC event so far this year, Glenn is very helpful and will also help you tune on the lakebed. I am running 2.0 CO's with 2.5BP's front and rear and can not believe how well my buggy works.
 
#14 ·
There is a VERY big difference between a 2.0 and 2.5" coilover! on a dyno to get a 2.0 to come close to the dampening low speed and high speed of a 2.5" coilover, you need to run upward of 250psi. The low speed dampening a 2.5" shock can control is great for your guys applications.

the 2.5" ID springs are $130a pair, and the 3.0" ID springs are $175 a pair, $45 dollar differnce... is that really that much if you have 20k in your rig? There are a ton of variables on springs no matter which ID you go with, the problem your going to run into, and what i have run into is that there arent LIGHT enough springs to get the control we like to see out of the chassis. you end up HAVING to go with a triple rate to get the car to sit low enough and then you lose your preload.

if you want to be competitive in the BITD series, you will really want to do a bypass, and do a 2.5", they are maybe 50-75$ more than the 2.0, and like i said, the difference between the two is very much a big change. the amount of dampening the 2.5" can create in the bump zone blows away a 2.0.

I wont say which MFG is the best out there, but King Shocks has great KOH and regular desert race support. They do weekly testing in barstow, and are in johnson valley the entire week of KOH working on rigs. The parts you get are the same parts that you see racing the 1000.

My strongest reccomendation isnt what brand you go with, or what size you go with, or even how many shocks... its STICKING TO WHOEVER IS GUIDING YOU! you cant go with a shock company and then ask your buddies for advice, or come on here. the companies have tuners, they do r&d, they see their results everyday, so taking advantage of their knowledge will help you make leaps and bounds when going fast in the desert! listening to 8 different guys about 8 different ways to tune your springs and valving and ride heights and such will spin your head and not get you anywhere. go to one guy, and ride it out, make the changes, get the seat time and you will be the smoothest guy out there cause you know what your truck will do, when and where...
 
#17 ·
I'm on Kings. They have done right by me and are a good shock with good support. King has spent many years tuning vehicles and when you are out with them testing you will realize how good they are at making your vehicle work.

My second choice would be bilstein.

I can tell you since you are in Colorado that no matter what brand you go with tuning support and time is HUGE. King and Bilstein both seem to offer the best support with tuning .

It is a major pain to get to any tuning session when you are this far away from the terrain you want to tune on. 13+ hour drives one way get old after a while.

My advice is this:
If you are wanting to get into the desert racing world go with a 2.5" coilover and at least a 2.5" bypass. We are proving that our vehicles are quite capable in the desert and as we are pushing the speeds up I have to wonder how fast we are going to push past a 2.5" bypass and into the 3" and 4" world. I think some of the existing rigs are getting there right now myself.

If you want to stick to the KOH type races a 2.5" coilover with an air bump and TONS of testing time will probably be good. I think the distances that the KOH race runs in the desert are just short enough that you will be ok on shock heat with only a coilover. Remember the shocks cool off in the rocks.

Rig weight plays a major role in your shock package as well. Heavy rigs need more shock than light rigs. Obviously going with a bypass and coilover at each corner is the "best" way to go but there are options and you have to decide what direction you are going to go with racing.
 
#19 ·
thanks for all the good info and suggestions so far. keep it coming. for the guys running 2.0 coilovers and triple bypasses are you running triple rate setups on your coilovers?

triple rates are more to set ride height lower while keeping a stiffer primary spring. I would stick with the advice of working with one tunner, and doing what they say.
A bunch of people will tell you that their guy is the best. I have not heard anybody say anything bad about Joel at Bilstein. Joel is the man at the ultra 4 stuff.
 
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