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Old 04-05-2016, 07:33 AM   #201 (permalink)
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Old 04-13-2016, 09:20 AM   #202 (permalink)
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interesting article on the possible side affects of the 15.00 minimum
California Minimum Wage Hike Could Cost State Taxpayers Billions

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California Minimum Wage Hike Could Cost State Taxpayers Billions
By Hans Bader | April 12, 2016 | 11:28 AM EDT
In this Tuesday, July 21, 2015 file photo, workers hold a rally in Los Angeles in support of the Los Angeles County Board of Supervisors' proposed minimum wage ordinance. On Saturday, March 26, California legislators and labor unions reached an agreement that will take the state's minimum wage from 0 to 5 an hour. (AP Photo/Nick Ut)

California’s legislative analyst projects that the recent increase in the state’s minimum wage to $15 an hour will cost taxpayers $3.6 billion more a year in government pay alone.

But that’s just the tip of the iceberg in terms of the cost to state taxpayers. By wiping out countless jobs, it will also drive up state welfare costs. The American Action Forum estimates that the increase will cost California nearly 700,000 jobs. Adam Ozimek, an economist at Moody’s Analytics, calculates that 31,000 to 160,000 California manufacturing jobs will be lost. Moreover, among low-wage workers who manage to stay employed, it will increase the taxes they pay to the federal government, while reducing their earned income tax credits from it.

By wiping out jobs, and increasing the number of people on welfare, the minimum wage increase will achieve the perverse goal once advocated by California’s governor, Jerry Brown. In 1995, before becoming governor, he stated, “The conventional viewpoint says we need a jobs program and we need to cut welfare. Just the opposite! We need more welfare and fewer jobs.”

Similarly, The Washington Post’s Lydia DePillis, a booster of the minimum wage increase, says that the “$15 minimum wage sweeping the nation might kill jobs – and that’s okay.” Governor Brown hinted at these job losses in signing the minimum wage hike into law, when he said, “Economically, minimum wages may not make sense. But morally, socially, and politically they make every sense.”

Job losses from the minimum wage increase will reduce state tax revenue. Meanwhile, much of the benefit of the increase to low income workers who manage to keep jobs at the increased minimum wage will prove illusory due to increased federal taxes and reduced federal earned-income tax credits and food stamps. As Henry Schmid notes, “the tax implications of going from a $10- to a $15-an-hour minimum wage” are fiscally “very significant. For a family of four with both spouses making the minimum wage, their federal tax will increase from $4,106 to $7,219, payroll tax will increase from $2,579 to $3,869, their earned-income tax credit (EITC) will be reduced from $596 to zero ... and the $2,400 food-stamp credit will be lost. Of the $20,800 increase in income in going from $10 to $15 an hour, $7,778 will be diverted to the government, which doesn’t include loss of other income-dependent government welfare programs and added costs due to the resulting inflation. Over one third of the wage increase will flow to the [federal] government.”

The increased unemployment from minimum wage increases is largest for the young, unskilled, and less educated.
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Old 04-13-2016, 09:24 AM   #203 (permalink)
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Lies! Lies! lies!

you can't trust that study, it's from an organization funded by evil oil/gas companies and the jews!

seriously, that's all the supporters will say.
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Old 04-13-2016, 09:52 AM   #204 (permalink)
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Liberal mantra…Never let facts, reality or the truth get in your way.
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Old 04-13-2016, 09:58 AM   #205 (permalink)
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Of the $20,800 increase in income in going from $10 to $15 an hour, $7,778 will be diverted to the government, which doesn’t include loss of other income-dependent government welfare programs and added costs due to the resulting inflation. Over one third of the wage increase will flow to the [federal] government.
now we're cutting down to the brass tacks. the state government tax revenue will increase too.
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Old 04-13-2016, 10:00 AM   #206 (permalink)
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now we're cutting down to the brass tacks. the state government tax revenue will increase too.
that's what i've been saying in all these threads.

The only benefactor in a minimum wage hike is the government.
Your buying power will ultimately remain the same, but the government will still use the old tax code numbers, so everyone gets bumped into the next bracket.
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Old 04-13-2016, 10:04 AM   #207 (permalink)
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The biggest problem I see that was touched on in that article is that it assumes that both parents will be working. Once they are above the income assistance guidelines, they no longer get help with daycare either, and they won't be able to afford it. That means they drop down to a single-earner household and still get assistance. This will be a disaster with the way it's implemented.
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Old 04-13-2016, 10:32 AM   #208 (permalink)
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Basic economics lesson for Screwy and other liberal idiots:

Higher min wage will contribute to inflation because prices go up.
All those kids who will be enamored by the higher wage won't find any jobs because FAR fewer jobs will be available.
5 years down the road after high inflation we will just repeat this cycle.
Meanwhile those who have earned their way up the scale to just above that amount get screwed.
Income inequality should be addressed through deregulation and free enterprise. There will always be poor people. Start looking at the reasons they're poor and quit painting everyone as victims of producers.
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Old 04-13-2016, 11:03 AM   #209 (permalink)
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that's what i've been saying in all these threads.

The only benefactor in a minimum wage hike is the government.
Your buying power will ultimately remain the same, but the government will still use the old tax code numbers, so everyone gets bumped into the next bracket.
Actually it will get lower. This will only drive the value of the dollar lower and product prices will go up...but they will not go up proportionately. If the product cost need to rise say 8% to remain the same...they will go up 10%.

So effectively the person to stupid or too lazy to acquire a skill worth more than wage...will lose buying power. But considering they're too stupid to preform a task that is worth more than minimum, they're also too stupid to under this.
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Old 04-14-2016, 02:30 PM   #210 (permalink)
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So there is a ton of this 15.00 an hour crap all over TV and there was a guy saying that they now need to unionize. This country was build on unions.

I hope this happens...
15.00 fast food workers push to unionize
they get in the union
Union cuts their wages because of the provision the unions negotiated
they are back to making what they were but paying higher prices.

rinse repeat
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Old 04-14-2016, 02:40 PM   #211 (permalink)
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Increase it to 15 dollars in California tomorrow. Do it. Those California government pussies don't have the balls
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Old 04-16-2016, 08:29 PM   #212 (permalink)
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And so it begins...
California minimum wage hike hits L.A. apparel industry: 'The exodus has begun' - LA Times

California minimum wage hike hits L.A. apparel industry: 'The exodus has begun'


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The American Apparel headquarters and manufacturing building is located on Alameda Street and 7th street in Los Angeles. (Al Seib / Los Angeles Times)
Shan Li and Natalie KitroeffContact Reporter

Los Angeles was once the epicenter of apparel manufacturing, attracting buyers from across the world to its clothing factories, sample rooms and design studios.

But over the years, cheap overseas labor lured many apparel makers to outsource to foreign competitors in far-flung places such as China and Vietnam.

Now, Los Angeles firms are facing another big hurdle — California's minimum wage hitting $15 an hour by 2022 — which could spur more garment makers to exit the state.

Last week American Apparel, the biggest clothing maker in Los Angeles, said it might outsource the making of some garments to another manufacturer in the U.S., and wiped out about 500 local jobs. The company still employs about 4,000 workers in Southern California.
American Apparel lays off hundreds of workers and considers outsourcing some manufacturing
American Apparel lays off hundreds of workers and considers outsourcing some manufacturing

"The exodus has begun," said Sung Won Sohn, an economist at Cal State Channel Islands and a former director at Forever 21. "The garment industry is gradually shrinking and that trend will likely continue."

In the last decade, local apparel manufacturing has already thinned significantly. Last year, Los Angeles County was home to 2,128 garment makers, down 33% from 2005, according to Bureau of Labor Statistics data. During that period, employment also plunged by a third, to 40,500 workers. Wages, meanwhile, jumped 17% adjusting for inflation, to $698 per week — although that can include pay for top executives, as well as bonuses, tips and paid vacation time.

Many apparel companies say Los Angeles is a difficult place to do business. Commercial real estate is expensive and limited, the cost of raw materials continues to rise and it can be difficult to find skilled workers who can afford to live in the city. They expect things will become even more challenging after the minimum-wage hike further raises their expenses.

Felix Seo has been making clothes for wholesale in downtown for 30 years. His company, Joompy, used to count giant retailers like Forever 21 among its clients. But as prices have gone up in recent years, he said, those fast-fashion peddlers are no longer giving him orders.

"I used to pay $5 to get this sewn, and now it costs $6.50," Seo said, holding up a patterned dress. "But my customer doesn't want to pay that, so I can't sell it anymore."

To survive, Seo, 59, said Joompy may have to start importing goods instead of producing them locally. "It will be impossible to make clothes in Los Angeles," he said.
Who wins with a $15 minimum wage?
Who wins with a $15 minimum wage?

The minimum wage is accelerating changes in the L.A. apparel industry that began decades ago, industry experts said.

In the 1990s, as borders opened up, foreign competitors began snatching up business from Southland garment factories.

Eventually, many big brands opted to leave the region in favor of cheaper locales. Guess Jeans, which epitomized a sexy California look, moved production to Mexico and South America. Just a few years ago, premium denim maker Hudson Jeans began shifting manufacturing to Mexico.

Jeff Mirvis, owner of MGT Industries in Los Angeles, said outsourcing was necessary to keep up with low-cost rivals. MGT, which makes apparel sold to retailers, moved its production to Mexico in the 1990s, China in the early 2000s and Southeast Asia a few years later. Its designs and samples are still made in Los Angeles, Mirvis said.

"Manufacturers really have no choice," said Mirvis, whose father started the company in 1988. "With the rise of Forever 21 and stores like that, price points have gone down and down and down."

Labor organizers say it's greed, not survival, that's pushing clothing makers out of California.

"It's always, 'Oh woe is me, If I pay minimum wage at this rate I can't turn a profit,'" said Nativo Lopez, a senior adviser with Hermandad Mexicana, which is helping American Apparel workers unionize. "They were using that argument when the wage was $6.75 an hour."
Ousted American Apparel founder plans next act
Ousted American Apparel founder plans next act

For nearly two decades, American Apparel bucked that trend.

In 1997, when apparel makers were flocking overseas, American Apparel began making cotton T-shirts in Los Angeles and paying its workers higher than minimum wage. At the time, founder Dov Charney recalls, the local apparel industry thought the company was doomed.

"They basically were of the mind that my efforts were futile and juvenile," he said. "The competitors, the consultants, the banks — everybody thought I was crazy."

But the company proved detractors wrong, and its success inspired other garment makers to make a go of it in Los Angeles, said Ilse Metchek, president of the California Fashion Assn.

It "was the impetus for many, many other companies to move here to make their goods," she said. "If it could be done by a neophyte like Dov, other people thought they could do it, too."

If American Apparel's production leaves, that "unfortunately will also make a difference," she said.

Charney was ousted as chief executive and chairman in 2014 after an investigation uncovered allegations of misuse of company funds and inappropriate behavior with employees. In February, the company was taken private after emerging from Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection.

After years of net losses, moving production out of Los Angeles is necessary for the survival of American Apparel, industry experts said. The company initially considered staying in California and moving to the city of Vernon, according to a person familiar with the discussions who was not authorized to speak publicly. After the state raised the minimum wage, executives began looking at manufacturers in the South, the person said.

Sensing opportunity, garment makers from Las Vegas, El Paso, Texas, and Las Cruces, N.M., have already come to the Southland to tout the benefits of moving production to their regions, said Sohn, the economist.

Craig Johnson, a retail expert at Customer Growth Partners, said Los Angeles may become for apparel what Silicon Valley is for technology: the hub for the design, but not the manufacturing, of products. Most chip manufacturing — which gave Silicon Valley its name — left the area in the 1980s.

"That's not an uncommon situation in a number of industries," Johnson said. "The creative component, which is in a sense the highest value-add, stays at a company's headquarters, whereas other components gravitate to a lower-cost environment."

What could remain in Los Angeles, economists said, are factories that cater to customers who need super-fast delivery of orders and garment makers that specialize in higher-end apparel or niche products.

Nature USA, which makes premium garments sold to brands such as Patagonia and REI, is staying put in the Southland, President Mike Farid said.

The Rancho Dominguez, Calif., company employs about 140 people in two factories churning out hoodies, tops and other items in higher-end fabrics such as Pima cotton.

Founded in 1996, Nature USA was a tiny operation for a decade, Farid said. But in recent years, the company has boomed as retailers have committed to sustainability and seized on organic cotton as a selling point to consumers, he said. In the last three years, the company has enjoyed annual double-digit sales growth.

Farid predicts that firms making cheap garments with razor-thin profit margins will have to look elsewhere. But Nature USA should be able to absorb the extra labor costs; Farid said he's thinking about making even higher-end garments in anticipation of the minimum-wage hike. His factory workers currently earn, on average, $13 to $14 an hour.

"Not everybody buys at Wal-Mart," Farid said. "When you are selling a $30 T-shirt, it doesn't break you to spend $1 more to make it here versus overseas."
See the most-read stories this hour >>

Even clothing companies firmly entrenched in the Southland said they've been affected by changes in the local garment industry.

Velvet, based in Culver City, contracts out its clothing-making to third-party manufacturers in Los Angeles, Chief Financial Officer Michael Rosen said. The company has seven retail stores and also sells its clothing to boutiques and department store chains such as Nordstrom.

Over the years, Velvet has seen its costs rise as more money is required to monitor factories to ensure they are abiding by labor laws, Rosen said.

"There are many fewer production facilities here, so it's harder to find manufacturers that are properly licensed," Rosen said. "The oversight that is required is much more."

Local garment workers said they're worried about their livelihoods if the city loses more clothing companies.

Marina Neza, 66, was one of the workers who lost her job as part of American Apparel's latest layoffs last week.

Neza said she used to make about $500 a week as a sewing machine operator. Over 32 years in the industry, Neza said she's been fortunate to work for many apparel makers in Los Angeles that paid decent wages.

But Neza said she's worried about finding another job to make ends meet. Her husband is sick, she said, and can work only part time.

"Apparel manufacturing has been my life," she said. "There are many, many companies that have moved out of here. I'm not sure about finding work."

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Old 04-16-2016, 08:40 PM   #213 (permalink)
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Meh, $15/hr. just means I go from 20+% tips back to 10% tips!

After All they are now making $15 an hour!
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Old 04-16-2016, 09:09 PM   #214 (permalink)
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If I knew my server was making 15.00 an hour I don't think i'd leave a tip. Does the 15.00 per hour cover servers and bartenders?
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Old 04-17-2016, 12:34 PM   #215 (permalink)
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If I knew my server was making 15.00 an hour I don't think i'd leave a tip. Does the 15.00 per hour cover servers and bartenders?
They never even made minimum wage.
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Old 04-17-2016, 12:56 PM   #216 (permalink)
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I know in jersey bartenders and waiters make less than minimum and rely on tips. I was not sure if this new law included them. A few years ago they were thinking about putting servers and bartenders in nyc on a fixed hourly rate and do away with tipping. I think a few places tried it but it didn't really take
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Old 04-17-2016, 01:01 PM   #217 (permalink)
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So there is a ton of this 15.00 an hour crap all over TV and there was a guy saying that they now need to unionize. This country was build on unions.

I hope this happens...
15.00 fast food workers push to unionize
they get in the union
Union cuts their wages because of the provision the unions negotiated
they are back to making what they were but paying higher prices.

rinse repeat
Ideally, this would be a brilliant scheme, but when have unions ever done anything to help out the business owner?

These are unintelligent people though. Who the fuck fights for a higher wage just to end up unionized paying dues which cuts down on that $15 you just got to on your own?
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Old 04-17-2016, 01:41 PM   #218 (permalink)
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Ideally, this would be a brilliant scheme, but when have unions ever done anything to help out the business owner?

These are unintelligent people though. Who the fuck fights for a higher wage just to end up unionized paying dues which cuts down on that $15 you just got to on your own?
There is a provision in the CA 15.00 minimum wage laws that exempt unions from paying it. Now unions are the new low cost labor. It's actually pretty brilliant. They get more members, more dues, businesses have to hire them if they want to cut costs imposed on them by the state. Union bosses get more money. Workers get screwed but have no choice because hotels will unionize.
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Old 04-17-2016, 03:03 PM   #219 (permalink)
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They never even made minimum wage.
Yep, tip based pays even less. My sister in law was making $2.14 an hour base this past year? Way more in tips obviously.
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Old 04-17-2016, 03:06 PM   #220 (permalink)
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That bugs me. A tip isn't a guarantee. A server should get regular minimum wage. The tip is a gratuity for exceptional service, exceptionally tight jeans, or exceptionally low cut blouses.
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Old 04-17-2016, 03:09 PM   #221 (permalink)
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Yep, tip based pays even less. My sister in law was making $2.14 an hour base this past year? Way more in tips obviously.
I used to work with this blond bimbo who bartended a few nights here and there at a couple places on the side. It was pretty normal for her to come home with $400-600 a night in tips and these aren't big clubs I'm talking about, just regular little town bars in the midwest. Idk why she even stuck with the real job.
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Old 04-18-2016, 06:21 AM   #222 (permalink)
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And so it begins...
California minimum wage hike hits L.A. apparel industry: 'The exodus has begun' - LA Times

California minimum wage hike hits L.A. apparel industry: 'The exodus has begun'

The apparel industry in L.A. was 90% GONE when I left in 1989.

Bullshit article is bullshit.
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Old 04-18-2016, 06:23 AM   #223 (permalink)
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That bugs me. A tip isn't a guarantee. A server should get regular minimum wage. The tip is a gratuity for exceptional service, exceptionally tight jeans, or exceptionally low cut blouses.
You fucking liberal!

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Old 04-18-2016, 06:29 AM   #224 (permalink)
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The apparel industry in L.A. was 90% GONE when I left in 1989.

Bullshit article is bullshit.
you dont read well, do you?
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Old 04-18-2016, 07:04 AM   #225 (permalink)
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If I knew my server was making 15.00 an hour I don't think i'd leave a tip. Does the 15.00 per hour cover servers and bartenders?
Yes in California the servers & Bartenders will get the new $15/hr. when it goes in affect!

So the most I will give for a tip then is %10
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