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Old 07-09-2017, 08:10 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Kid that holds breath until passing out?

Anyone else have a kid with passing out issues?

We thought we were pros and ready for #4.

She's a year and 9 months now and is a total asshole. She hits, she screams out of anger and is generally just disagreeable. None of the other kids were like this.

A couple of weeks back, she did a new trick. She fell off a chair and hit her head on the tile floor. She did the silent scream and walked over to me. I noticed the silent scream was lasting longer than normal.

I looked over at her and thought she was choking. She was walking, but not breathing. I grabbed her and she went limp in my arms, unconscious. That was the second scariest moment I've had as a father. Within a second she was up again, now screaming and crying. We took her to the ER.

They kept her for observation for 5 hours, but she was back to her normal self, being a dick within minutes of us arriving: running around, laughing, messing with stuff, throwing things, etc. The doc said they would rather not expose kids to the radiation of a CT scan unless they exhibit more than one symptom of brain injury. We were good with that.

Anyway, now it's a re-occurring thing. Every time she really hurts herself, she silent screams her way into unconsciousness; usually after hitting her head. My MIL was a nurse and started doing some research and making phone calls. Apparently, this is not a really uncommon thing. The trick is to make them lay down and blow into their face. Still a trip watching their eyes roll back. My wife has a mini-breakdown every time it happens.

Anyone else have these issues? We will talk to her doc about getting an MRI this week, but we're pretty confident that it will not show anything abnormal.
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Old 07-09-2017, 08:14 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Just get up and leave the room. Refuse to be held hostage by a child. If she passes out just leave her, don't try to catch her. A couple of bumps and she will learn it hurts and she will start to lay herself down.
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Old 07-09-2017, 08:25 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I know what it is like to have a little shit of a kid...

As for the passing out thing, hadn't seen that yet.
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Old 07-09-2017, 08:26 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Just get up and leave the room. Refuse to be held hostage by a child. If she passes out just leave her, don't try to catch her. A couple of bumps and she will learn it hurts and she will start to lay herself down.
We are usually considered pretty heartless by other parents. Our kids hurt themselves and we don't pay attention to them. They have to pick themselves up. They also know that if we get involved, it's likely play time is over and they go to bed. We are fans of letting them figure out things the hard way; sometimes with a warning first, "That seems like a really stupid thing to do..." *gets hurt* "told ya."

This shit is next level though.
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Old 07-09-2017, 08:30 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Just get up and leave the room. Refuse to be held hostage by a child. If she passes out just leave her, don't try to catch her. A couple of bumps and she will learn it hurts and she will start to lay herself down.
Something along these lines. She's doing it now because she enjoys the reaction/attention she gets from it. Sometimes the hardest thing as a parent is not reacting the way the child desires when they do stuff like this. You either train them, or they train you -- but ultimately it is your decision.
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Old 07-09-2017, 08:34 AM   #6 (permalink)
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What about a firm pat on the back? Like when someone's choking?

That would seem like it would "break" the trance.

I dunno. Haven't had lil' kids in decades.
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Old 07-09-2017, 08:35 AM   #7 (permalink)
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We are usually considered pretty heartless by other parents. Our kids hurt themselves and we don't pay attention to them. They have to pick themselves up. They also know that if we get involved, it's likely play time is over and they go to bed. We are fans of letting them figure out things the hard way; sometimes with a warning first, "That seems like a really stupid thing to do..." *gets hurt* "told ya."

This shit is next level though.
If you watch kids out of the side of your eye, it's halaious to see them fall and look around to see if anyone saw them. If they see anyone that saw them, they start bawling, if not, they just go about their day.
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Old 07-09-2017, 08:38 AM   #8 (permalink)
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What about a firm pat on the back? Like when someone's choking?

That would seem like it would "break" the trance.

I dunno. Haven't had lil' kids in decades.
It is like a trance, so you bring up a point. The trance break is the blowing in the face - doesn't always work though.

That said, I'm not a medic, but have had a lot of training in it - don't pat people on the back when they are choking.

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Old 07-09-2017, 08:40 AM   #9 (permalink)
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i got nothing.
couselling? is that even possible for that young of age???
pediatrician?

wow, scary.
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Old 07-09-2017, 08:42 AM   #10 (permalink)
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If you watch kids out of the side of your eye, it's halaious to see them fall and look around to see if anyone saw them. If they see anyone that saw them, they start bawling, if not, they just go about their day.
Yep. Watched #2 (the smart, but least tough one) fall off the top of a play ground thing the other day. She whimpered, and looked at me. I pretended not to see her. She got up and went on with life.

This has been our philosophy since #1 first started walking. We don't pick them up, but are amazed how many other people, even strangers, will pick up your kids thinking you are just a shitty parent.
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Old 07-09-2017, 08:46 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Something along these lines. She's doing it now because she enjoys the reaction/attention she gets from it. Sometimes the hardest thing as a parent is not reacting the way the child desires when they do stuff like this. You either train them, or they train you -- but ultimately it is your decision.
Normally, I'm right on board with this.

This just doesn't smell like normal stubbornness. It's always the silent scream then pass out, not just "I'm going to hold my breath because I'm mad."
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Old 07-09-2017, 08:48 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Anyone saying to leave the room is fucking stupid....she's not holding her breathe you fucks, she's knocking the wind out of herself by hyperventilating. My daughter has done this multiple times after hurting herself. My wife called the ambulance when it happened to her the first time. I've had my daughter go limp in my arms 3 or 4 times. The only thing you can do is pat her back and tell her to breathe. The Dr confirmed my suspicion that she was starving herself of oxygen because she was crying so hard. The silent scream is her not having any air to make sound. On a side note, this is indeed my fourth child as well. She's very well mannered and has great temperament as well. Of all 4 kids she is the best behaved at this age. Your daughter is NOT doing this for attention. And i know how fucking scary this shit is. Having your baby in your arms limp like a wet noodle is the absolute WORST feeling in the world. You feel more helpless than in any other situation. Good luck man, my daughter started this about the same age as yours, and it's happened about 6 times so far. The Dr said she'll grow out of it. For the record, we took her to a neurologist just to be sure. They said it's common in this age group, and she'll grow out of it.
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Old 07-09-2017, 08:48 AM   #13 (permalink)
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It is like a trance, so you bring up a point. The trance break is the blowing in the face - doesn't always work though.

That said, I'm not a medic, but have had a lot of training in it - don't pat people on the back when they are choking.
She's not choking
Not to mention that when you take infant cpr,the only thing to do for a child up to agree 5 or so is pat them on the back when they are choking....
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Old 07-09-2017, 08:50 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Some kids prescribe to the old "any attention is good attention" theory.

Letting them learn that AW'ing isn't the answer is tough, I did that.

I'm not saying skipping the nurturing is fine, but when she gets to the point where she realizes that gaining your attention is NOT working by regular means... well there ya go.

My sister is an awesome mom, but struggles with a kid who is constantly demanding attention by hitting or acting out. So when I roll on the scene and the kid does it with me, and I respond to hitting and biting with a swift back hand to the frontal lobe, she's in shock.

However, the kid straightened right up when I did it. I didn't have to deal with it like she does. My patience only extends so far.

My kids learned the same way.

I'm not talking discipline here, just consequences. Though I may be thought of as an asshole, I live fairly peacefully without the toxic bs that it brings along having a tantrum kid. Spare the rod and so forth.

So the wee brat may need to deal with consequences.
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Old 07-09-2017, 08:52 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Normally, I'm right on board with this.

This just doesn't smell like normal stubbornness. It's always the silent scream then pass out, not just "I'm going to hold my breath because I'm mad."
I'm sure it isn't intentional... let her do her thing, she will most likely grow out of it.

If she turns blue, theres a bigger issue.
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Old 07-09-2017, 08:53 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Some kids prescribe to the old "any attention is good attention" theory.

Letting them learn that AW'ing isn't the answer is tough, I did that.

I'm not saying skipping the nurturing is fine, but when she gets to the point where she realizes that gaining your attention is NOT working by regular means... well there ya go.

My sister is an awesome mom, but struggles with a kid who is constantly demanding attention by hitting or acting out. So when I roll on the scene and the kid does it with me, and I respond to hitting and biting with a swift back hand to the frontal lobe, she's in shock.

However, the kid straightened right up when I did it. I didn't have to deal with it like she does. My patience only extends so far.

My kids learned the same way.

I'm not talking discipline here, just consequences. Though I may be thought of as an asshole, I live fairly peacefully without the toxic bs that it brings along having a tantrum kid. Spare the rod and so forth.

So the wee brat may need to deal with consequences.
Read my post before you call her out on attention whoring
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Old 07-09-2017, 08:55 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Anyone saying to leave the room is fucking stupid....she's not holding her breathe you fucks, she's knocking the wind out of herself by hyperventilating. My daughter has done this multiple times after hurting herself. My wife called the ambulance when it happened to her the first time. I've had my daughter go limp in my arms 3 or 4 times. The only thing you can do is pat her back and tell her to breathe. The Dr confirmed my suspicion that she was starving herself of oxygen because she was crying so hard. The silent scream is her not having any air to make sound. On a side note, this is indeed my fourth child as well. She's very well mannered and has great temperament as well. Of all 4 kids she is the best behaved at this age. Your daughter is NOT doing this for attention. And i know how fucking scary this shit is. Having your baby in your arms limp like a wet noodle is the absolute WORST feeling in the world. You feel more helpless than in any other situation. Good luck man, my daughter started this about the same age as yours, and it's happened about 6 times so far. The Dr said she'll grow out of it. For the record, we took her to a neurologist just to be sure. They said it's common in this age group, and she'll grow out of it.
So basically there is nothing that can be done or did I misread this like a stupid fuck.
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Old 07-09-2017, 08:57 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Read my post before you call her out on attention whoring
I wasn't saying his kid was an aw. Just saying some kids need to learn the consequences of actions.

Like mentioned, the kid is getting hurt, freaking out, passing out from not breathing and going limp. She will survive and eventually grow out of it after she is mature enough to realize there are better ways of dealing with "whatever issue" puts her in that state.

And NO, do not leave the kid unattended... nurture and love, not abandon.
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Old 07-09-2017, 08:58 AM   #19 (permalink)
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So basically there is nothing that can be done or did I misread this like a stupid fuck.
Nothing to be done, but surely don't leave the room, because if something were to happen i doubt you would be able to live with the consequences
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Old 07-09-2017, 08:58 AM   #20 (permalink)
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So basically there is nothing that can be done or did I misread this like a stupid fuck.
Pretty much.. Observe and respond accordingly.
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Old 07-09-2017, 09:00 AM   #21 (permalink)
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I wasn't saying his kid was an aw. Just saying some kids need to learn the consequences of actions.

Like mentioned, the kid is getting hurt, freaking out, passing out from not breathing and going limp. She will survive and eventually grow out of it after she is mature enough to realize there are better ways of dealing with "whatever issue" puts her in that state.

And NO, do not leave the kid unattended... nurture and love, not abandon.
I'm glad we're on the same page.

As for disciplining children, my sil has a problem cold, but won't discipline. He gets around me or my wife (when his mom isn't around of course) and he knows we won't take his shit, so he's a good kid around us lol.
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Old 07-09-2017, 09:04 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Anyone saying to leave the room is fucking stupid....she's not holding her breathe you fucks, she's knocking the wind out of herself by hyperventilating. My daughter has done this multiple times after hurting herself. My wife called the ambulance when it happened to her the first time. I've had my daughter go limp in my arms 3 or 4 times. The only thing you can do is pat her back and tell her to breathe. The Dr confirmed my suspicion that she was starving herself of oxygen because she was crying so hard. The silent scream is her not having any air to make sound. On a side note, this is indeed my fourth child as well. She's very well mannered and has great temperament as well. Of all 4 kids she is the best behaved at this age. Your daughter is NOT doing this for attention. And i know how fucking scary this shit is. Having your baby in your arms limp like a wet noodle is the absolute WORST feeling in the world. You feel more helpless than in any other situation. Good luck man, my daughter started this about the same age as yours, and it's happened about 6 times so far. The Dr said she'll grow out of it. For the record, we took her to a neurologist just to be sure. They said it's common in this age group, and she'll grow out of it.
This. It's exactly what we've been told as well - she should grow out of it. We just haven't been to her doc yet as we just moved. I was just hoping there was something else you've been told as well.

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She's not choking
Not to mention that when you take infant cpr,the only thing to do for a child up to agree 5 or so is pat them on the back when they are choking....
Yeah, definitely not choking... just looked like it the first time.

I was referring to adults. IIRC, Heimlich for a kid is putting them face down on your hand (just above the belly button) and pushing on their back. Similar to CPR for a kid, but your front hand is in a different position (CPR on the sternum). Of course, now that I google it, they have a whole different thing than when I took the class. Looks like I need to do some reading.

I was always told to never pat someone on the back who is choking as it could lodge whatever it is worse.
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Old 07-09-2017, 09:07 AM   #23 (permalink)
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I'm glad we're on the same page.

As for disciplining children, my sil has a problem cold, but won't discipline. He gets around me or my wife (when his mom isn't around of course) and he knows we won't take his shit, so he's a good kid around us lol.
Yup, same here... my sisters kid is golden after the first encounter like that.

OP's kid is 1 and a half... far to young to really comprehend whats happening on any real level. Give it time, I am sure it's scary... you will cope. She will get to a point that she grows out of it.

Kids do some strange shizzle.
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Old 07-09-2017, 09:09 AM   #24 (permalink)
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This. It's exactly what we've been told as well - she should grow out of it. We just haven't been to her doc yet as we just moved. I was just hoping there was something else you've been told as well.



Yeah, definitely not choking... just looked like it the first time.

I was referring to adults. IIRC, Heimlich for a kid is putting them face down on your hand (just above the belly button) and pushing on their back. Similar to CPR for a kid, but your front hand is in a different position (CPR on the sternum). Of course, now that I google it, they have a whole different thing than when I took the class. Looks like I need to do some reading.

I was always told to never pat someone on the back who is choking as it could lodge whatever it is worse.
Even the neurologist said not to worry too much, unless she turns colors. It should only last 30 seconds tops.

You're right about patting them on the back, it's got to be an upward thrust motion. My disclaimer is that i haven't had a cpr class in a very very long time. Placement of the hand on the chest is crucial, and i suppose i should sign up for one asap. My wife and i have been talking about taking one. Time to put it on the schedule i guess.
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Old 07-09-2017, 09:10 AM   #25 (permalink)
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