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Old 09-12-2017, 07:04 PM   #1 (permalink)
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AWS Welding Handbook set

Anybody use them? own them?

want to sell them?

Kind of looking for the welding equivalent of Machinery Handbook and this seems to be it. $600 member price and $800 non member price is steep and the chapter preview online is just the safety notes and table of contents kind of curious how the information is laid out and the details given

didn't see them for sale outside of the aws website, still doing some looking into.

https://pubs.aws.org/p/306/whb-all-welding-handbook-set
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Old 09-12-2017, 08:20 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Anybody use them? own them?

want to sell them?

Kind of looking for the welding equivalent of Machinery Handbook and this seems to be it. $600 member price and $800 non member price is steep and the chapter preview online is just the safety notes and table of contents kind of curious how the information is laid out and the details given

didn't see them for sale outside of the aws website, still doing some looking into.

https://pubs.aws.org/p/306/whb-all-welding-handbook-set
Not sure what you are looking for specifically...

I would pick up a copy of Design of welded structures by Lincoln foundation. These can be had for 35 bucks used and are a combination of all types of fab design from calculating weld draw/warp to coped tube connections and a crash course in statics and weld strength.

Then I would print a copy of AWS d1.1 for controlled joint design and requirements etc.

If you deal with fatigue design the IW has significantly more in depth fat class modifiers than anything else I've seen.

Everything else can be readily attained from teh goog.

Ymmv
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Old 09-12-2017, 08:25 PM   #3 (permalink)
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looking for a non-google or non digital version of various alloys and electrodes and characteristics. more textbook or encyclopedia style and very broad

something bound and not in a binder, more like an encyclopedia. full of shit where 99% won't matter 99% of the time, but that rare 1% of 1% it will have it covered.

everything i get at work comes from an engineer but i'd like to be able to make informed probes for information and clarity without getting a college degree

edit: i will look into the lincoln book, thank you
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Old 09-12-2017, 08:36 PM   #4 (permalink)
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http://www.jflf.org/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=PH
so in looking for the lincoln book, i came across the lincoln arc welding foundation website. this might be just what i'm looking for 750sih pages and 14th edition.

anybody use or see "Procedure Handbook for Arc Weldign" ? for $30 i'm going to snag it up unless somebody says it is total garbage in the next couple days
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Old 09-12-2017, 10:13 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I have it. Two actually.
Good information!
If you can't sleep, start reading this! It'll knock you right out.
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Old 09-13-2017, 05:59 AM   #6 (permalink)
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http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/aa/aaf97...7279989ca0.jpg

so in looking for the lincoln book, i came across the lincoln arc welding foundation website. this might be just what i'm looking for 750sih pages and 14th edition.

anybody use or see "Procedure Handbook for Arc Weldign" ? for $30 i'm going to snag it up unless somebody says it is total garbage in the next couple days
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I have it. Two actually.
Good information!
If you can't sleep, start reading this! It'll knock you right out.
Nice book and it will put you right out.
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Old 09-13-2017, 06:31 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Provience View Post
looking for a non-google or non digital version of various alloys and electrodes and characteristics. more textbook or encyclopedia style and very broad

something bound and not in a binder, more like an encyclopedia. full of shit where 99% won't matter 99% of the time, but that rare 1% of 1% it will have it covered.

everything i get at work comes from an engineer but i'd like to be able to make informed probes for information and clarity without getting a college degree

edit: i will look into the lincoln book, thank you
What's your motive here? If the arcane welding issues come up, it oughta be the engineer that hits the books, not you.

Seems like a dog tugging a rag issue to me.
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Old 09-13-2017, 06:41 AM   #8 (permalink)
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I'll bet without that degree or extensive knowledge there is a good chance that the 1% you will understand won't be the 1% you disagree with the engineer on.
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Old 09-13-2017, 08:45 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Provience View Post
looking for a non-google or non digital version of various alloys and electrodes and characteristics. more textbook or encyclopedia style and very broad

something bound and not in a binder, more like an encyclopedia. full of shit where 99% won't matter 99% of the time, but that rare 1% of 1% it will have it covered.

everything i get at work comes from an engineer but i'd like to be able to make informed probes for information and clarity without getting a college degree

edit: i will look into the lincoln book, thank you
The Lincoln book is a mecha of forgotten info on design. I reference it routinely. Several of the warp equations mimic almost exactly a field issue we are having and my predecessors were under the impression that it was not predictable. The book is damn near 50 years old....

As you saw the Lincoln foundation is great too.

Eng-tips forum has many qualified pros that debate weld callout format and such. Nice to see what other industries are doing on their prints. Especially if its engineer put this symbol on drawing and you gave me that discrepancies.

AWS d1.1 is what will control all joint design, both prequalified and not. It's not theory, it's what is. Most people misinterpret partially or in full. It may or may not be correct but it governs.

Link d1.1 full download:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...Zg-vahRnLTsy_g
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Old 09-13-2017, 09:40 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I bought this and a set of Miller quick calc cards that I keep around. Book was about 20 bucks?


edit: may not be enough theory and alloys for you? but i like it as a functional guide and reference when doing welding work.
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Old 09-13-2017, 11:09 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Tell the engineer to prove it won't work...most can't. You should see how bent out of shape ours got when I said (4) 1/2" long, 1/8" fillet welds would hold something. He made me skip weld 2" welds on 6" centers 3/8" fillets. oh BOTH sides too. Most(at least the ones I've dealt with) welding engineers have little to no shop/real world experience. I know there are guys here like @knaffie that know WTF they are doing

And yes the Lincoln book is good. Lots of stuff that needs to be taught but isn't anymore
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Old 09-13-2017, 12:28 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Tell the engineer to prove it won't work...most can't. You should see how bent out of shape ours got when I said (4) 1/2" long, 1/8" fillet welds would hold something. He made me skip weld 2" welds on 6" centers 3/8" fillets. oh BOTH sides too. Most(at least the ones I've dealt with) welding engineers have little to no shop/real world experience. I know there are guys here like @knaffie that know WTF they are doing

And yes the Lincoln book is good. Lots of stuff that needs to be taught but isn't anymore
While I certainly don't disagree that most engineers have zero real world experience much less know what is needed and practical to fab, most of the time they are being driven by aws standards, industry set safety factors and fatigue life. What will work (including what I would do at home etc) and what I can justify in court when shit goes south are two very different things.

You'd be surprised how overbuilt some items we build appear to be only to see major cracking mid life cycle. Working on automotive and ag stuff really warps your perception of normal as they have extremely low life expectancies.

Ymmv
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Old 09-13-2017, 01:18 PM   #13 (permalink)
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What's your motive here? If the arcane welding issues come up, it oughta be the engineer that hits the books, not you.

Seems like a dog tugging a rag issue to me.
same reason i have a Machinery Handbook and Ashley Book of Knots and a Dictionary.

"one of these days" i'm going to own a bound copy of some fairly recent Federal Tax Code as well

looks good on the shelf

sometimes there isn't an engineer handy and odd stuff comes up. Like i said, anything I do work related will come on a piece of paper and all legalated and enginerded.
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Old 09-13-2017, 01:20 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I'll bet without that degree or extensive knowledge there is a good chance that the 1% you will understand won't be the 1% you disagree with the engineer on.
don't care, all i need to do is be able to understand the book and get the engineer to explain it. If HE doesn't know wtf he is talking about, then we'll be good

I've had to show people how to measure things so that they could double check my work....kind of along that same concept
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Old 09-13-2017, 01:34 PM   #15 (permalink)
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The Lincoln book is a mecha of forgotten info on design. I reference it routinely. Several of the warp equations mimic almost exactly a field issue we are having and my predecessors were under the impression that it was not predictable. The book is damn near 50 years old....

As you saw the Lincoln foundation is great too.

Eng-tips forum has many qualified pros that debate weld callout format and such. Nice to see what other industries are doing on their prints. Especially if its engineer put this symbol on drawing and you gave me that discrepancies.

AWS d1.1 is what will control all joint design, both prequalified and not. It's not theory, it's what is. Most people misinterpret partially or in full. It may or may not be correct but it governs.

Link d1.1 full download:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...Zg-vahRnLTsy_g
thanks for the link, downloaded. Good to hear that the lincoln book is also a relevant resource in addition to good looks

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I bought this and a set of Miller quick calc cards that I keep around. Book was about 20 bucks?


edit: may not be enough theory and alloys for you? but i like it as a functional guide and reference when doing welding work.
nice, those quick calc cards are nice..i'd like to get some ~3'x5' to hand on the walls at the shop. I'm trying to get more theory and odd stuff.

Actually inspired in part by a school i'm taking that is turning out to be much more basic than i anticipated when it comes to the knowledge side of things. Practical hands on stuff, very high standards are very good, but the entirety of theory during a 2 month course was ~1 hour of shitty videos on day one.

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Tell the engineer to prove it won't work...most can't. You should see how bent out of shape ours got when I said (4) 1/2" long, 1/8" fillet welds would hold something. He made me skip weld 2" welds on 6" centers 3/8" fillets. oh BOTH sides too. Most(at least the ones I've dealt with) welding engineers have little to no shop/real world experience. I know there are guys here like @knaffie that know WTF they are doing

And yes the Lincoln book is good. Lots of stuff that needs to be taught but isn't anymore
THAT is the part that i don't like. i've taken enough basic welding courses at this point to be comfortable with the basics, but for well less than the price of just a week long advanced course i could buy the whole AWS book set and likely get MORE information.

Yes, hands on practical stuff under a watchful eye is important but i can get a bunch of info from woods also, enough to really improve the quality of the hands on instruction.
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Old 09-13-2017, 03:00 PM   #16 (permalink)
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nice, those quick calc cards are nice..i'd like to get some ~3'x5' to hand on the walls at the shop. I'm trying to get more theory and odd stuff.

Actually inspired in part by a school i'm taking that is turning out to be much more basic than i anticipated when it comes to the knowledge side of things. Practical hands on stuff, very high standards are very good, but the entirety of theory during a 2 month course was ~1 hour of shitty videos on day one.

.
they are more hands on than just a flash card. sliding calculator type tools. very cool. They say Millermatic but really that wire feed and amps should apply across different machines contingent on the metal being welded. i have Multimatic 200 that has a little pocket on the inside door that these go in nicely.

Miller Electric - 043125 Package Calculator

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Old 09-13-2017, 03:06 PM   #17 (permalink)
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ah gotcha, those are slick
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Old 09-13-2017, 03:46 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Anybody use them? own them?

want to sell them?

Kind of looking for the welding equivalent of Machinery Handbook and this seems to be it. $600 member price and $800 non member price is steep and the chapter preview online is just the safety notes and table of contents kind of curious how the information is laid out and the details given

didn't see them for sale outside of the aws website, still doing some looking into.

https://pubs.aws.org/p/306/whb-all-welding-handbook-set
Quote:
Originally Posted by Provience View Post
looking for a non-google or non digital version of various alloys and electrodes and characteristics. more textbook or encyclopedia style and very broad

something bound and not in a binder, more like an encyclopedia. full of shit where 99% won't matter 99% of the time, but that rare 1% of 1% it will have it covered.

everything i get at work comes from an engineer but i'd like to be able to make informed probes for information and clarity without getting a college degree

edit: i will look into the lincoln book, thank you
Frankly Ive only run into the AWS set 2x since 1968.

1 was on a bookshelf of a gent that should never ever be allowed around a welding setup.

The other belongs to a gent that teaches welding engineering as part of the MET program at Metro State in Denver. The prof is a welding instructor that also gives the cert tests for most welding methods and positions along with being one of the few welding PEs I've run into.

Frankly they're more for engineer references on specs than anything else, there's other books for the quick reference application stuff that's better presented and for less coin of the realm.
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Old 09-13-2017, 03:52 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Frankly Ive only run into the AWS set 2x since 1968.

1 was on a bookshelf of a gent that should never ever be allowed around a welding setup.

The other belongs to a gent that teaches welding engineering as part of the MET program at Metro State in Denver. The prof is a welding instructor that also gives the cert tests for most welding methods and positions along with being one of the few welding PEs I've run into.

Frankly they're more for engineer references on specs than anything else, there's other books for the quick reference application stuff that's better presented and for less coin of the realm.

awesome feedback, thanks sounds like the full $800 set will wait until i'm retired
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Old 09-13-2017, 05:34 PM   #20 (permalink)
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awesome feedback, thanks sounds like the full $800 set will wait until i'm retired
I have the TIG book and the brazing book and that's only because I could get them at a decent price "back in the day". Then again "back in the day" was when one could get a new copy of the 20th Ed of Machinery's handbook for $20. That's the edition that 1st came out with something vaguely reminiscent of ISO standards for metric stuff...and requires a magnifying glass to read the print.
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Old 09-13-2017, 06:10 PM   #21 (permalink)
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I have the TIG book and the brazing book and that's only because I could get them at a decent price "back in the day". Then again "back in the day" was when one could get a new copy of the 20th Ed of Machinery's handbook for $20. That's the edition that 1st came out with something vaguely reminiscent of ISO standards for metric stuff...and requires a magnifying glass to read the print.
dang, you are getting old !
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Old 09-17-2017, 08:36 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Tell the engineer to prove it won't work...most can't. You should see how bent out of shape ours got when I said (4) 1/2" long, 1/8" fillet welds would hold something. He made me skip weld 2" welds on 6" centers 3/8" fillets. oh BOTH sides too. Most(at least the ones I've dealt with) welding engineers have little to no shop/real world experience. I know there are guys here like @knaffie that know WTF they are doing

And yes the Lincoln book is good. Lots of stuff that needs to be taught but isn't anymore
Thanks man. If I can ever do anything to help out, just let me know.
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Old 09-17-2017, 09:20 AM   #23 (permalink)
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The Lincoln foundation also offers a free book called "Metals and How to Weld Them". It has a lot of good information on metallurgy but will put you to sleep in a New York minute.
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Old 09-17-2017, 09:50 AM   #24 (permalink)
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You may consider keeping a "Marks' Standard Handbook"

Chapter 13 section 3 has about 20 pages of what you need
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Old 09-17-2017, 11:42 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Thanks man. If I can ever do anything to help out, just let me know.
Hey Knaffie can I hit ya up for some advice/ideas on a weld joint we are having trouble with at work. We have a couple of CWIs and a couple of very very good welders and at this point they are running out of ideas.

I'm not a welder so my terminology may be off but as a quick rundown, we have a weld joint with a signed and stamped weld process. Calls out all the specifics, wire type, dia, number of passes, gas mix, wire feed speed. Machine settings etc. we have a sample from the shop that used to weld this specific joint. Suppose to be mig, previously it was on a robot.

Basically we have a Premachined flange that welds to 1/4 plate, plate intersects at a 24° angle. Material is 304L. It's a deep narrow J joint, if I remember correct, roughly 7/16 deep and .200 wide. We cannot change that geometry. Requires 3 passes, final machining cuts through the pass overlap and we are seeing porosity/entrapment/slag after machining.
We have tried 4 different wire types and brands, 3 different diameters and 3 different gas mixes, (one tri mix, and two dual mix). Spec sheet calls out a tri mix and metal core wire. Right now we are going to TIg them but it's not cost efficient.

To me (again not a welder) it looks like the joint is too deep so the gas is Not flooding the arc and due to the cup size and joint depth they are long arcing it and not getting a clean weld. Pretty sure they are using 308SL. I can get much more specific tomorrow. They are tacking od, fully welding ID. Removing tack and back gouging to sound metal before the first OD root pass.

Any ideas how to get a clean Mig pass?
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