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Old 04-09-2018, 06:37 PM   #201 (permalink)
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Holy shit this is the most 'Murica thing I've ever read. You guys are hilarious!

I'm an Aussie, and its awesome! But I'm not just patriotic because I'm born here, I realise that there are also other good countries around that I'd like just as much as Australia.

Most of us even have other military's that fought for our rights. We also have a constitution. I haven't read it, but its there!

So here's some stats for ya'll (good and bad, and intentionally avoiding gun stats):
- 1.2 times less crime
- 57 times less intentional murder
- 13 times less rape
- Equal assaults
- 2 times more burglaries
- 90 times less prisoners
- 1.1 times more car theft

So the short story is we are FAR less likely to be killed, raped or imprisoned, but a bit more likely to have our shit stolen. Fair trade off in my personal opinion, and given we started as a colony of thieves a fair effort. Now this isn't solely because we have less guns, there are a lot of reasons for it, but my point is that these are the statistics, and America has some issues that they should REALLY be working on. One of them SHOULD be gun restrictions, but others should be the health and welfare systems. You could probably learn a few things from us Aussie's. But everyone's opinion in America seems to be "THAT'S NOT AMERICA, AMERICA IS DIFFERENT! FOREIGN IS WRONG". It's downright stupid. If America is doing something really well, Australia should take note! And we do, we have a lot of policies taken from America, and America does a lot of things well.

Now onto our gun "ban". We don't have one. We have gun restrictions. I can buy a gun, easily. I just have to have a genuine reason to buy one (shooting other people in ANY circumstance is NOT a genuine reason i.e. protection) and comply with all the relevant requirements such as not being a nut case or a criminal and making sure I use and store my gun safely. Then I can buy any gun that is suitable for the purpose stated. I live on a farm and have no criminal or mental health history so I could go get a license and buy a rifle or a shotgun from the local gun shop about 10 minutes away. If I didn't live on a farm I could also buy a gun for hunting, which would be a rifle. I can also get licenses for sports shooting which can include rifles or pistols or some other things I'm not really familiar with. There are some special licenses for semi-autos and things but I'm not well educated on them so I won't go into more detail.

Onto the bump stop. I really don't care .

PS: I'm not against guns, gun ownership, hunting, America or Democrats. I'm just against stupidity and stupid opinions!
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Last edited by Motas; 04-09-2018 at 06:40 PM.
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Old 04-09-2018, 06:52 PM   #202 (permalink)
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If we are still talking about bump stocks, the ship has passed I think on that issue. The limp wrist politicians in DC are going to ban them. Best thing to do is get your license for a Class 3 fully automatic and have fun. Bump stock was a cheap way to waste a lot of ammunition but was not real solution to full auto IMHO.

A lot of asshat numbskulls, as usual, ruined it for all of us to enjoy our shooting sports. The old "Hold my beer and watch this" got us as well as the greed of some dealers who sell weapons to people who obviously should not purchase one. The Las Vegas shooter and the following shooters all looked "off" IMHO.
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Old 04-09-2018, 07:15 PM   #203 (permalink)
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As an VEHICLE owner the stats say you are actually more likely to be killed or kill someone innocent than to save yourself or someone else's life. Just let that sink in for a bit. It's great that you all want to exercise your rights and if increasing your chances of dieing are worth some perceived freedom you gain from it, then fine, whatever, good for you all.
Fixed it for you.....
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Old 04-09-2018, 07:21 PM   #204 (permalink)
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Fixed it for you.....
Yes, no arguments there...far more likely to die in a vehicle.
@Motas - agreed! Sad that Americans seem to think they know better when it comes to gun control than other countries and that they ignore the stats that back up the fact they're doing it wrong.
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Old 04-09-2018, 07:25 PM   #205 (permalink)
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Holy shit this is the most 'Murica thing I've ever read. You guys are hilarious!

I'm an Aussie, and its awesome! But I'm not just patriotic because I'm born here, I realise that there are also other good countries around that I'd like just as much as Australia.

Most of us even have other military's that fought for our rights. We also have a constitution. I haven't read it, but its there!

So here's some stats for ya'll (good and bad, and intentionally avoiding gun stats):
- 1.2 times less crime
- 57 times less intentional murder
- 13 times less rape
- Equal assaults
- 2 times more burglaries
- 90 times less prisoners
- 1.1 times more car theft

So the short story is we are FAR less likely to be killed, raped or imprisoned, but a bit more likely to have our shit stolen. Fair trade off in my personal opinion, and given we started as a colony of thieves a fair effort. Now this isn't solely because we have less guns, there are a lot of reasons for it, but my point is that these are the statistics, and America has some issues that they should REALLY be working on. One of them SHOULD be gun restrictions, but others should be the health and welfare systems. You could probably learn a few things from us Aussie's. But everyone's opinion in America seems to be "THAT'S NOT AMERICA, AMERICA IS DIFFERENT! FOREIGN IS WRONG". It's downright stupid. If America is doing something really well, Australia should take note! And we do, we have a lot of policies taken from America, and America does a lot of things well.

Now onto our gun "ban". We don't have one. We have gun restrictions. I can buy a gun, easily. I just have to have a genuine reason to buy one (shooting other people in ANY circumstance is NOT a genuine reason i.e. protection) and comply with all the relevant requirements such as not being a nut case or a criminal and making sure I use and store my gun safely. Then I can buy any gun that is suitable for the purpose stated. I live on a farm and have no criminal or mental health history so I could go get a license and buy a rifle or a shotgun from the local gun shop about 10 minutes away. If I didn't live on a farm I could also buy a gun for hunting, which would be a rifle. I can also get licenses for sports shooting which can include rifles or pistols or some other things I'm not really familiar with. There are some special licenses for semi-autos and things but I'm not well educated on them so I won't go into more detail.

Onto the bump stop. I really don't care .

PS: I'm not against guns, gun ownership, hunting, America or Democrats. I'm just against stupidity and stupid opinions!
Curious, what were those stats 1 year before the gun "ban" and 20 years before?

The underlying issue with "stats" is they can be easily construed to fit whatever point you want to make. That's lesson #1 in every basic statistics class.
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Old 04-09-2018, 07:28 PM   #206 (permalink)
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Curious, what were those stats 1 year before the gun "ban" and 20 years before?

The underlying issue with "stats" is they can be easily construed to fit whatever point you want to make. That's lesson #1 in every basic statistics class.
I've only ever seen stats that say less guns = less gun deaths; which logically makes sense. Can you find stats that say the opposite, that gun restrictions/bans have increased gun related deaths? I'd be interested in seeing those.
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Old 04-09-2018, 07:29 PM   #207 (permalink)
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Amen
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Old 04-09-2018, 07:30 PM   #208 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by haustow View Post
Curious, what were those stats 1 year before the gun "ban" and 20 years before?

The underlying issue with "stats" is they can be easily construed to fit whatever point you want to make. That's lesson #1 in every basic statistics class.
That's why I tried to include a variety of statistics, both good and bad, and did not make the argument that gun restrictions DEFINITELY results in this. I stated "this isn't solely because we have less guns".

The problem isn't with statistics. The problem is with authors manipulating statistics. I also took a statistics class .

Also:
https://www.factcheck.org/2017/10/gu...ralia-updated/
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Last edited by Motas; 04-09-2018 at 07:33 PM.
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Old 04-09-2018, 07:31 PM   #209 (permalink)
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Fish, Leopard, Ninja

Gentlemen, 2A is not about hunting or sport; it's about checks and balances.

Remember this cycle:
Faith
Courage
Liberty
Abundance
Selfishness
Complacency
Apathy
Dependence
Bondage

Our founding fathers would blame We The People for our Apathy that made us Dependent and is putting US in this Bondage. How we respond to this situation in unison will determine how bad the road back to Liberty will be.

Historically, an aggressor that has an "under-appreciation" for the capabilities and resources to remain independent, loses.

If interested, I recommend:
Amazon has these on audio for under $15
The Art of War by Sun Tzu
The Prince by Niccolò Machiavelli
The Book of Five Rings by Miyamoto Musashi

Each and every one of US can make a difference. Use your head. MAGA can be real for our descendants; at least until it's their turn. We can give them a chance.
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Old 04-09-2018, 07:38 PM   #210 (permalink)
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I've only ever seen stats that say less guns = less gun deaths; which logically makes sense. Can you find stats that say the opposite, that gun restrictions/bans have increased gun related deaths? I'd be interested in seeing those.
CHICAGO
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Old 04-09-2018, 07:40 PM   #211 (permalink)
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CHICAGO
I hate that argument.

You're looking at a city with gun restrictions, within a country without.

It would be FAR easier to get a gun into Chicago, than it would be to get a gun into Australia.
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Old 04-09-2018, 07:40 PM   #212 (permalink)
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That's why I tried to include a variety of statistics, both good and bad, and did not make the argument that gun restrictions DEFINITELY results in this. I stated "this isn't solely because we have less guns".

The problem isn't with statistics. The problem is with authors manipulating statistics. I also took a statistics class .

Also:
https://www.factcheck.org/2017/10/gu...ralia-updated/
Agreed, it happens on both sides. Problem being Country A does not track guns, homicides, fatalities, accidents, crime, gun ownership, etc the same as every other country in the world. There is no common denominator unfortunately.
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Old 04-09-2018, 07:45 PM   #213 (permalink)
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CHICAGO
Don't they just go to a neighbouring state and buy them there?

Chicago has other socioeconomic problems though that compound the issue...although I've also heard doesn't have the highest gun related death rate per capita in the US?
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Old 04-09-2018, 07:45 PM   #214 (permalink)
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I hate that argument.

You're looking at a city with gun restrictions, within a country without.

It would be FAR easier to get a gun into Chicago, than it would be to get a gun into Australia.
That's what makes Australia such a poor example for gun control. It's a huge island and it is much easier to control the flow of illegal guns. Ok, ban guns in the US. Canada has guns, not too much further away. Or maybe I'll just go to Mexico and buy the guns that the US Govt. sold all those dealers. Oh wait, Mexico is supposed to have such strict gun laws it's almost illegal to own one there. But wow it's so easy to buy one. Sounds like Chicago.
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Old 04-09-2018, 07:46 PM   #215 (permalink)
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Agreed, it happens on both sides. Problem being Country A does not track guns, homicides, fatalities, accidents, crime, gun ownership, etc the same as every other country in the world. There is no common denominator unfortunately.
Definitely happens on both sides and I think that's a really big problem in Australia and in the US.

While I agree with you, and without researching it, I would guess that Australia and USA would be similar enough that statistics would be comparable. Especially when it is 13-90 times more.
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Old 04-09-2018, 07:50 PM   #216 (permalink)
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That's what makes Australia such a poor example for gun control. It's a huge island and it is much easier to control the flow of illegal guns. Ok, ban guns in the US. Canada has guns, not too much further away. Or maybe I'll just go to Mexico and buy the guns that the US Govt. sold all those dealers. Oh wait, Mexico is supposed to have such strict gun laws it's almost illegal to own one there. But wow it's so easy to buy one. Sounds like Chicago.
A valid point.

But you just said that the USA has the weakest gun laws, and is the one supplying guns to Mexico, not the other way around. I assume Canada has stricter gun laws than America also.

I also assume there is more border controls between countries than between cities.
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Old 04-09-2018, 07:53 PM   #217 (permalink)
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More than that, wait until they discover that you can actually bump fire faster than a slide fire and want to ban your actions.

BROWN PEOPLE COUNTRIES
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Old 04-09-2018, 08:01 PM   #218 (permalink)
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A valid point.

But you just said that the USA has the weakest gun laws, and is the one supplying guns to Mexico, not the other way around. I assume Canada has stricter gun laws than America also.

I also assume there is more border controls between countries than between cities.
Unfortunately, yes, we do. We can have some shit they can't, like short shotguns, and chinese guns. We can't defend ourselves, against two or 4 legged problems, or hunt with handguns. Weird part is, the gangsters keep killing each other, and innocent people. Often, with handguns, or full autos, which are severely restricted. They keep stealing guns from law abiding people, gun shops, or using straw buyers. All of it is illegal, but again, it doesn't seem to stop them.
Its really strange, but, the criminals refuse to follow the laws concerning guns.

Not to worry though, our government is trying to re-institute a registry, and make it double extra illegal to break gun laws. From what I hear, the gangsters are really concerned and are lobbying against it.

Of course, as a law abiding gun owner, I welcome further restrictions, and anything that makes my life more onerous. I know that taking away my cz858 will save many lives. Just like not letting me fill a magazine stops me from going on a murderous rampage. If only I could have more than 5 rounds in a rifle, or 10 in a pistol, it would be worth it, but being so restricted, and totally incapable of drilling out the rivets that I voluntarily put in those magazines...it's saved countless lives.
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Old 04-09-2018, 08:05 PM   #219 (permalink)
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Unfortunately, yes, we do. We can have some shit they can't, like short shotguns, and chinese guns. We can't defend ourselves, against two or 4 legged problems, or hunt with handguns. Weird part is, the gangsters keep killing each other, and innocent people. Often, with handguns, or full autos, which are severely restricted. They keep stealing guns from law abiding people, gun shops, or using straw buyers. All of it is illegal, but again, it doesn't seem to stop them.
Its really strange, but, the criminals refuse to follow the laws concerning guns.

Not to worry though, our government is trying to re-institute a registry, and make it double extra illegal to break gun laws. From what I hear, the gangsters are really concerned and are lobbying against it.

Of course, as a law abiding gun owner, I welcome further restrictions, and anything that makes my life more onerous. I know that taking away my cz858 will save many lives. Just like not letting me fill a magazine stops me from going on a murderous rampage. If only I could have more than 5 rounds in a rifle, or 10 in a pistol, it would be worth it, but being so restricted, and totally incapable of drilling out the rivets that I voluntarily put in those magazines...it's saved countless lives.
The criminals have a much easier time getting/finding guns when they have proliferated everywhere in the country. It's much easier to find a needle in a haystack when the haystack has a needle for every single straw.

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That's what makes Australia such a poor example for gun control. It's a huge island and it is much easier to control the flow of illegal guns. Ok, ban guns in the US. Canada has guns, not too much further away. Or maybe I'll just go to Mexico and buy the guns that the US Govt. sold all those dealers. Oh wait, Mexico is supposed to have such strict gun laws it's almost illegal to own one there. But wow it's so easy to buy one. Sounds like Chicago.
The US might as well be an island given the countries north and south have stricter laws and you still have US CBP, ATF, etc. doing their best to prevent smuggling into the country on top of that.
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Old 04-09-2018, 08:07 PM   #220 (permalink)
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The criminals have a much easier time getting/finding guns when they have proliferated everywhere in the country. It's much easier to find a needle in a haystack when the haystack has a needle for every single straw.



The US might as well be an island given the countries north and south have stricter laws and you still have US CBP, ATF, etc. doing their best to prevent smuggling into the country on top of that.

You have no fucking clue how many people have guns, and how many they have here do you?
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Old 04-09-2018, 08:07 PM   #221 (permalink)
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A valid point.

But you just said that the USA has the weakest gun laws, and is the one supplying guns to Mexico, not the other way around. I assume Canada has stricter gun laws than America also.

I also assume there is more border controls between countries than between cities.
Unfortunately, yes, we do. We can have some shit they can't, like short shotguns, and chinese guns. We can't defend ourselves, or hunt with handguns. Weird part is, the gangsters keep killing each other, and innocent people. Often, with handguns, or full autos, which are severely restricted. They keep stealing guns from law abiding people, gun shops, or using straw buyers. All of it is illegal, but again, it doesn't seem to stop them.
Its really strange, but, the criminals refuse to follow the laws concerning guns.

Not to worry though, our government is trying to re-institute a registry, and make it double extra illegal to break gun laws. From what I hear, the gangsters are really concerned and are lobbying against it.
There are very strict storage laws here which ARE enforced. Guns have to be kept in a locked safe, with ammunition in a separate locked safe. Gun shops are similarly difficult to steal from. Guns on the black market are VERY expensive and difficult to get, and you would also need a continuous supply of ammunition. Criminals with guns in Australia are not common. Plus most criminals in Australia just want your TV.

Actually some of the laws are not logical in this area and kind of funny. They're obviously enforced when needed. From memory it's illegal to take your gun home from the store or something similar like that.
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Old 04-09-2018, 08:11 PM   #222 (permalink)
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There are very strict storage laws here which ARE enforced. Guns have to be kept in a locked safe, with ammunition in a separate locked safe. Gun shops are similarly difficult to steal from. Guns on the black market are VERY expensive and difficult to get, and you would also need a continuous supply of ammunition. Criminals with guns in Australia are not common. Plus most criminals in Australia just want your TV.
Yep, our bullshit was modelled after your bullshit.
Doesn't work worth a shit, but it makes people who don't know anything about that world feel good.
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Old 04-09-2018, 08:16 PM   #223 (permalink)
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The US might as well be an island given the countries north and south have stricter laws and you still have US CBP, ATF, etc. doing their best to prevent smuggling into the country on top of that.
uh except for how the drug runners always got AKs and chinese ARs from their compadres south of their border

Last edited by [486]; 04-09-2018 at 08:17 PM.
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Old 04-09-2018, 08:16 PM   #224 (permalink)
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US has a bit over 3 times as many guns per person as Canada.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estima...ita_by_country

And if you do some quick math on population, the US has something like 330 million guns...Canada has about 10 million, so 33 times as many in the states (roughly).
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Old 04-09-2018, 08:19 PM   #225 (permalink)
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ok Canadian and Aussie, who is it that protects you and your family from home invaders? It is sad if you say the police or constable. You see in America the law enforcement officers have "No duty to protect any one citizen, but the community as a whole"... US supreme court ruling..

But the US supreme court does recognize that since the police cannot and will not be held responsible for individual citizens lives and well being from bad guys, they ruled that a citizen of the USA has the right to protect him/her self. hence self preservation.

Now this ruling is just a repeat of what is all ready in the 2nd amendment to begin with..

I carried a gun for work everyday and retired in 2011, I still carry a gun everyday everywhere I go. I am now on 28yrs of daily carry...

Your correct guns are made to kill, that is what they do, and I expect them to do it well.. In my life I have shot several people and not one survived, so the firearm did it's job well and I am grateful for it. My family is grateful for it as well.

You are not American, you are Canadian and Australian. Neither of you are free, you both live under crown rule in one way or another. So you are just good loyal subjects not citizens.

A citizens values, respects, and understands their Constitution and will fight and die for what it means...

A loyal subject just does what they are told, never questions anything.... My wife is Australian and it took me 15+ years to get that brainwashed mentality out of her head...

So I suggest instead of trying to criticize Americans for our constitution maybe you should try and fix all of the things that are wrong with your two respective countries.. There is plenty to be fixed there.. there always is in any country... I will sleep well tonight knowing you cannot vote here or have any say in the outcome of our country... and you can sleep well knowing there is zero crime in your mind and if there is any crime you can hope the local police officer is called to investigate your crimes.

Funny thing is I can buy guns in Australia easier than crack on a NYC street... There is always someone selling them at most any roadhouses I have been two... lol

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