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Old 07-31-2018, 08:30 AM   #51 (permalink)
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For you calories in calories out people.

I want you to eat a 1800 calorie diet of carbs for a month then report back and tell me how much bigger you are.

Not all calories are created equal. google Thermic effect.
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Old 07-31-2018, 08:34 AM   #52 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ky scrambled View Post
Calories in/Calories out.


Change my mind....
My N=1 experiment.

Dr. Supervised 1500 calorie low-fat diet with weekly check-ins with a dietician, strict food logs, All food measured weighed and photographed, 3x a week with a trainer. 6 months, no change in weight.

Completely frustrated and off the rails I added tons of fat back into my diet with no interest in calorie counting. Stopped all exercise. After 1 month I hopped on my scale to see how much fatter I got, I lost about ten pounds.

Confused as fuck because I believed calories in calories out and fat is evil, I started researching fat. Discovered keto. Started a keto diet, within 8 months I had dropped 85 pounds while still living a very sedentary life.

My morning coffee with its coconut oil and heavy cream is between 600-1,000 calories. I finish every day with homemade ice cream sweetened with erythritol or homemade cheesecake. My lowest day is about 2,500 calories. I'm still miserably sedentary.

Stopped keto for a month, stayed under 2k calories a day, gained ten pounds.


So, Calories in calories out is incorrect. Change my mind.
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Old 07-31-2018, 08:38 AM   #53 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by 61scout80 View Post
My N=1 experiment.

Dr. Supervised 1500 calorie low-fat diet with weekly check-ins with a dietician, strict food logs, All food measured weighed and photographed, 3x a week with a trainer. 6 months, no change in weight.

Completely frustrated and off the rails I added tons of fat back into my diet with no interest in calorie counting. Stopped all exercise. After 1 month I hopped on my scale to see how much fatter I got, I lost about ten pounds.

Confused as fuck because I believed calories in calories out and fat is evil, I started researching fat. Discovered keto. Started a keto diet, within 8 months I had dropped 85 pounds while still living a very sedentary life.

My morning coffee with its coconut oil and heavy cream is between 600-1,000 calories. I finish every day with homemade ice cream sweetened with erythritol or homemade cheesecake. My lowest day is about 2,500 calories. I'm still miserably sedentary.

Stopped keto for a month, stayed under 2k calories a day, gained ten pounds.


So, Calories in calories out is incorrect. Change my mind.
Great post. For me, I've lost weight by cutting out snacks and soda. (mostly carbs) But I haven't cut carbs, I've cut excess carbs.
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Old 07-31-2018, 08:44 AM   #54 (permalink)
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For you calories in calories out people.

I want you to eat a 1800 calorie diet of carbs for a month then report back and tell me how much bigger you are.

Not all calories are created equal. google Thermic effect.
Why would I do that when my basal metabolic rate is right arpu 1600 calories, along with most everyone else?
I dieted for 6 months, ran a diet of half or more carbs, the other half protein, and extremely low fat and lost 193 lbs.

Soooooo, no, not any bigger.
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Old 07-31-2018, 08:44 AM   #55 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by 61scout80 View Post
My N=1 experiment.

Dr. Supervised 1500 calorie low-fat diet with weekly check-ins with a dietician, strict food logs, All food measured weighed and photographed, 3x a week with a trainer. 6 months, no change in weight.

Completely frustrated and off the rails I added tons of fat back into my diet with no interest in calorie counting. Stopped all exercise. After 1 month I hopped on my scale to see how much fatter I got, I lost about ten pounds.

Confused as fuck because I believed calories in calories out and fat is evil, I started researching fat. Discovered keto. Started a keto diet, within 8 months I had dropped 85 pounds while still living a very sedentary life.

My morning coffee with its coconut oil and heavy cream is between 600-1,000 calories. I finish every day with homemade ice cream sweetened with erythritol or homemade cheesecake. My lowest day is about 2,500 calories. I'm still miserably sedentary.

Stopped keto for a month, stayed under 2k calories a day, gained ten pounds.


So, Calories in calories out is incorrect. Change my mind.

Leptin and other hormones are likely the reason. I'd be curious if you went on a macro based diet that was closer to your 2500 cal needs and slowly walked it back what that would do your further fat loss. Long term, do you think you can sustain a high fat diet? In 2 years? In 20?
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Old 07-31-2018, 08:46 AM   #56 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by 61scout80 View Post
My N=1 experiment.

Dr. Supervised 1500 calorie low-fat diet with weekly check-ins with a dietician, strict food logs, All food measured weighed and photographed, 3x a week with a trainer. 6 months, no change in weight.

Completely frustrated and off the rails I added tons of fat back into my diet with no interest in calorie counting. Stopped all exercise. After 1 month I hopped on my scale to see how much fatter I got, I lost about ten pounds.

Confused as fuck because I believed calories in calories out and fat is evil, I started researching fat. Discovered keto. Started a keto diet, within 8 months I had dropped 85 pounds while still living a very sedentary life.

My morning coffee with its coconut oil and heavy cream is between 600-1,000 calories. I finish every day with homemade ice cream sweetened with erythritol or homemade cheesecake. My lowest day is about 2,500 calories. I'm still miserably sedentary.

Stopped keto for a month, stayed under 2k calories a day, gained ten pounds.


So, Calories in calories out is incorrect. Change my mind.
Simple, your're fat as shit and your basal metabolic rate is above 2500 calories. Or, you're lying. Pick one, those are the only two options based on the details you gave.
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Old 07-31-2018, 08:47 AM   #57 (permalink)
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Once you realize it isn't as easy as calories in calories out you will realize how easy it is to lose weight. Look at weight loss more about controlling hormones... The science is there but folks want to ignore it and stick to their calories in vs out argument..
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Old 07-31-2018, 08:52 AM   #58 (permalink)
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Once you realize it isn't as easy as calories in calories out you will realize how easy it is to lose weight. Look at weight loss more about controlling hormones... The science is there but folks want to ignore it and stick to their calories in vs out argument..
I lost 100 lbs in 96 days following simple calories in vs out...go ahead, please continue.
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Old 07-31-2018, 09:02 AM   #59 (permalink)
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I lost 100 lbs in 96 days following simple calories in vs out...go ahead, please continue.
Damn man, that's pretty awesome! Good on you!
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Old 07-31-2018, 09:06 AM   #60 (permalink)
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I lost 100 lbs in 96 days following simple calories in vs out...go ahead, please continue.
So what's your point? Starving people lose weight. I don't think anybody disagrees with that.

It takes no nutrition at all to be skinny. Unhealthy and skinny, but skinny.

What is the goal? To be healthy or sickly?

And I know people who have lost similar weight to you eating Atkins , ketos, whatever you call it and had NO concern with calories. (they didn't keep it off when they brought carbs back ,but they sure as fuck lost it).

Completely discrediting either one as not working is ....... stupid. When they both clearly do.
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Old 07-31-2018, 09:08 AM   #61 (permalink)
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So what's your point? Starving people lose weight. I don't think anybody disagrees with that.

It takes no nutrition at all to be skinny. Unhealthy and skinny, but skinny.

What is the goal? To be healthy or sickly?

And I know people who have lost similar weight to you eating Atkins , ketos, whatever you call it and had NO concern with calories. (they didn't keep it off when they brought carbs back ,but they sure as fuck lost it).

Completely discrediting either one as not working is ....... stupid. When they both clearly do.
I remember Purdue's posts on the exercising etc he was doing while losing weight, I don't think he was/is sickly (not since weight loss anyway)
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Old 07-31-2018, 09:10 AM   #62 (permalink)
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I remember Purdue's posts on the exercising etc he was doing while losing weight, I don't think he was/is sickly (not since weight loss anyway)
Doesn't change a damn thing about my post.
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Old 07-31-2018, 09:10 AM   #63 (permalink)
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I've stalled a bit on the weight loss, but cut 80% of my carb intake since the start of the year and I'm down about 20lbs and my clothes fit better.

I still drink way too much beer, but it's domestic swill at 3.2 carbs per....so 20-25g of carbs from beer 2-3 times a week is factored in.

Almost no bread. There are low carb tortillas you can buy...and I do have pizza every now and then....
No Potatoes (super hard for me - I love potatoes)
No sweets
No fruit.
Cut way back on pasta, rice sides and now only have those once every couple of weeks
Minimal chips, crackers, etc.

Snacks these days are nuts, Atkins bars, and protein shakes. I look at carbs on the labels of the groceries I buy.

I hope to drop another 10lbs by the end of the year. My initial goal was to drop around 30-35lbs and I think I will get there.

I know that I have to eat this way going forward and say good bye to a lot of the things I've enjoyed over the years.

Reading labels reveals a shit ton of carbs in some foods you wouldn't expect, including a lot of the protein mixes, bars, shakes, etc.

I do have bloodwork done every 6 months. Cholesterol is good. Cholesterol mix (good vs. bad) is good. Triglycerides have always been high with me....though there's little conclusive evidence that high triglycerides by themselves are very detrimental to long term health. Usually it's a combination of high triglycerides AND high cholesterol that causes heart problems, blocked arteries, etc.
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Old 07-31-2018, 09:12 AM   #64 (permalink)
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No, it really is that simple. If she was gaining weight while consuming less than she was burning, then she was sneaking food and snacking.

The body sees calories. It doesnt care if those calories come from cakes, doughnuts, or carrots. Sure, theres caloric density and how more unhealthy things are calorically dense, but calories are calories. You consume more than you burn, the excess gets stored as fat, and you get fat. You consume less than you burn and the shortfall is taken from your fat stores and you lose weight.

There are no secrets or magic bullet to losing weight. No fucking science to it. Eat less than you burn: lose weight. The bigger the deficite, the faster you lose it.

this is so true, my buddy's wife kept complaining how she was not loosing weight like him and how a woman's body it different. the day her truck broke down in the drive through at taco bell popped that shit.
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Old 07-31-2018, 09:15 AM   #65 (permalink)
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Doesn't change a damn thing about my post.
you sound hangry




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Old 07-31-2018, 09:21 AM   #66 (permalink)
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Just ran across this in another forum this morning. Seems to fit well here.

https://medium.com/@AaronBleyaert/on...s-b16c95e50b19
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Old 07-31-2018, 09:27 AM   #67 (permalink)
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Just ran across this in another forum this morning. Seems to fit well here.

https://medium.com/@AaronBleyaert/on...s-b16c95e50b19
Thanks Fatty, Ill check it out.
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Old 07-31-2018, 09:28 AM   #68 (permalink)
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Started doing a primarily keto/low carb diet about 8 months ago, after a 3 year stint of having chronic heartburn. Heartburn started off just appearing after hard workouts initially, which gradually morphed into an every day thing. Got tired of feeling nauseous every morning and having the stuck in throat feeling constantly. Went to the specialist, did an endoscopy and all he wanted to do is prescribe omeprazole. When the refluxing wouldn't stop, I started evaluating my diet.

Cut out dairy with no results. Then tried breads and gluten and boom, no more heartburn. Whole different person. Then started dialing in on the fat/meat based diet with some vegetables thrown in and haven't felt this good in years. I can now work hard for hours without getting the shaky/faint/hungry feeling like I used to (always have since a kid). I don't crash after eating, feel more full, don't have bad cravings for candy and snacks like I once did. I haven't lost weight, but i didn't have any to loose to begin with. I have found that i am able to gain strength from lifting much faster/easier than i did during college with a high carb diet. I am leaner, and stronger from doing less than i had previously.

Personally, the only downside with this diet for me is being limited on where/what i eat, especially with friends and family. Probably just a factor in any diet, but certainly easy to overcome. The initial change to a low carb/sugar diet was tough for the first week or two, crazy to find out how much your body craves the shit food we are so accustomed to stuffing in our mouths. It might not be for anyone, but I am a fan and see great results from eating this way. Eggs w/ bacon grease every morning, burger/meatloaf with guac in the afternoon, and a fatty meat/vegetable stew for dinner on average for me. It varies somewhat but that is the base of it. No complaints on the flavor palate!
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Old 07-31-2018, 09:28 AM   #69 (permalink)
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I've been eating keto since the end of May. I'm down 25lbs but, more importantly, I feel 1000x better. My pants are all loose, pants i didn't fit into when I started fit easily now, and i have to tighten my belt two notches tighter than when I started.

I love bread and thought it would be hard to give it up. It hasn't been at all. There are things I miss, but not enough to go back. If I want beer i drink Michelob Ultra and just factor it into my carbs for the day.

Look up Headbangers Kitchen on YouTube for some awesome recipes with some good humor.
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Old 07-31-2018, 09:38 AM   #70 (permalink)
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I am by no means a big guy. 5'7" and usually between 165 and 160lbs with a small belly. July 11th a week before my 40th birthday I hit 165 and decided to go to low carb meals with a goal weight of 155lbs. So I replaced my rather American diet of high carbs/sugars with Meats, eggs, leafy greens, low carb vegetables, cheese, and almonds.

I have a rather active job and mountain bike 22-30 miles a week. My take aways so far: I have no idea if I am in keto, as I have done no testing; I have lost 12lbs, losing 8 lbs of water weight in the first week. I have had some ups and downs as far as energy has been concerned. I do feel slightly weaker on my rides, which I think must be due to the lack of carbs. My portion sizes at meals have gotten smaller and I am full much faster then I was when eating high carbs and sugars. Overall I feel better, less bloated and my stomach has flatten out. I can almost see the potential for abs.

At this point I would like to get down to 150 lbs and start in with some area dedicated strength training. Hardest part has been curbing my sweet tooth. Most nights I would usually have a bowl of ice cream lathered with chocolate syrup. This has been replaced with sugar free jello and dash of whipped cream.

I am interested to see how this continues as my body relearns how to burn fat instead of carbs for fuel.

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Old 07-31-2018, 09:47 AM   #71 (permalink)
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Leptin and other hormones are likely the reason. I'd be curious if you went on a macro based diet that was closer to your 2500 cal needs and slowly walked it back what that would do your further fat loss. Long term, do you think you can sustain a high fat diet? In 2 years? In 20?
I can sustain a high-fat diet. Did it from april '17 until July 2018 with only a 2-week break for Christmas....When mom sends me a tray of her homemade cookies I'm not going to throw them away. When my wife started making her pierogis I wasn't going to say no! After this two weeks, I gained a minimal amount of weight and was happy to go back to keto.

I also have celiac's disease, so I shouldn't eat any of the above anyway.

I took July off as an experiment to see if I could walk the fat back and be a little more normal. Although the ketogenic diet is over 100 years old I'm still apprehensive about long-term effects. I added summer fruits, mangos, peaches, etc. Cut the fat back a little to compensate and balance my calories out around 2k/day. I put on ten pounds. I'm also hungry a lot more. I feel tired and easily distracted more often than not. I struggle to wake up in the morning and struggle to fall asleep at night. I've had my miserable GERD symptoms return. All complaints that leveled out with keto.

I was planning to have all of July "off", but switched back this week. In 2 weeks I should be back to my new normal and I'm looking forward to it.
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Old 07-31-2018, 10:11 AM   #72 (permalink)
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Simple, your're fat as shit and your basal metabolic rate is above 2500 calories. Or, you're lying. Pick one, those are the only two options based on the details you gave.
I started keto at 365. if my base rate was 2,500 calories why didn't the 1,500 calories low-fat diet work for me? It was tracked to a point that my dietician was concerned about me developing an eating disorder. I thought it was more scientific to log everything since people always counter with "well, you're probably underestimating how much you actually eat". If it went in my mouth it was weighed, measured and it was on my food log, she seemed nervous when I logged a single grape....

I gain nothing by bullshitting. I find it entertaining to debate folks like you, who were able to lose weight the traditional way, who refuse to acknowledge that there are potential dietary differences between different people.

I work with a guy who has the worst diet I've ever seen. He does the same job as me and is probably a little less active than I am outside of work. He keeps a bag of candy in his drawer and he is eating it all day long. He drinks at least a 6 pack of soda during the work day and sits at a bar drinking beer almost every evening. 2 out of three meals a day come from a drive-through window. He's been about 30 pounds overweight for the 12 years I've known him. If I ate his diet for a month I'd gain 20 to 30 pounds easily and continue to increase as long as I ate that way. He loved to point and laugh at my egg white and spinach breakfast while he was pounding down a couple mcgriddles and a large coke.


So, what's different? Similar energy expenditure, similar muscle mass, I put on more fat if I eat carbohydrates. Is a high-fat diet for everyone? No, just like a low-fat diet isn't for everyone. People need to find what works and go with it. We all process food differently and science has yet to figure out the details of why. But to say that calorie in vs calorie out is the end all answer is straight up wrong. It might be the answer for some, maybe even most, but it's not the answer for everyone.
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Old 07-31-2018, 10:31 AM   #73 (permalink)
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The wife and I are eating keto. My wife has had a miserable time trying to lose weight, she has pcos and it messes with her hormones.

Anyways, she was down to 1200 calories a day plus working out 4x a week. She'd lose 5lbs and then just stop. It was frustrating for both of us. No, she isn't a sneaker. There was no cheating. She doesn't like soda, she doesn't eat candy.. She's fucking boring in the food department.

Anyways, in a few months of pretty lazy keto.. Well go pretty good for a few weeks and then travel or go camping or something that makes doing keto very difficult.. Then slowly get back into it.

She's lost 50lb, the first time she's been that weight since having kids almost 16 years ago. Having kids really messed her body up internally. I've lost everything I wanted to and have gone into a higher carb maintenance.. I eat around 50-80 carbs a day now and have leveled off. My wife just got her blood work done and everything was stellar. I've never done mine.

One thing about keto is you'll really start to see how much sugar is in everything. It's pretty fucked up. Sugar/hfcs in fucking everything.

I feel great with this diet. I have way less stomach issues, seriously I almost never fart anymore, sleep better, etc.. I didn't really realize how bad I felt until I didn't. On the flip side, having a piece of pizza at a work party makes me feel like absolute shit for the rest of the day now. That sucks. But I guess it helps me remember I don't really need that anyway.
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Old 07-31-2018, 10:51 AM   #74 (permalink)
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I lost 100 lbs in 96 days following simple calories in vs out...go ahead, please continue.

With however much respect is due, when you're that fucking fat that you need to lose well over triple digits, anything positive you do is going to shed it quickly. See how easy it is when you get within light years of an optimal weight for your height, then continue that
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Old 07-31-2018, 10:57 AM   #75 (permalink)
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I skipped most of this thread and am just going to add my experience and views.


Timeline:

2003. 175 lbs. Graduated high school. Ate a lot and was very active.
2004. 195 lbs. After 1 year of university I had gained about 20 lbs. I had 6 or 7 classes a semester and I ate like I was still in high school.
2008. 195 lbs. Graduated university. I ended up eating a lot less and exercising a bit more the rest of my university career.
2009. 190 lbs. Started work and quickly lost 5 lbs. Attributed it to 2 months straight of night shift and just being a lot more active at work than I ever was at school.
2017. 215 lbs. For 8 years. I just gained weight slowly. I would try exercising more (I play hockey, run, walk, bike, hike, etc. I'm not a couch potato), but I also drank a lot more beer and ate a lot.
2018. February. 215 lbs. I started a keto diet without changing my exercise.
2018. July. 185 lbs. My goal is to get to my high school weight and see how I feel.


My Keto Diet:

Breakfast
Omelet (4 eggs, onions, mushrooms, green peppers, cheese), Bacon (3 or 4 slices), Tea (English Breakfast), Apple Cider Vinegar.

Lunch
Salad (5ish cups of mostly spinach and arugula, mushrooms, cheese, onions, 1 avocado, zero carb dressing), Celery (a few stalks).

Supper
I don't eat supper unless I'm hungry (I'm usually not) and then it's just a small snack.

Drinks:
Tea (green, 1 bag, 3 or more cups a day)
Beer (low carb, Michelob Ultra or Sleeman's Clear 2.0, 2 a day, a couple days a week)
Water (as much as I feel like, I have to pee every hour or 2 throughout the day).

Snacks:
Veggies (celery mostly, including lunches I go through 2 bunches a week)
Pork Rinds (if I'm looking for a non vegi snack)
Tuna (mixed with a little miracle whip or mayo I'll eat a can if I am hungry in the evening)


My Recommendations:

Check out www.dietdoctor.com. My dad started keto and I was skeptical. I found this site and started researching. FYI, I have never bought any "keto" products to be on this diet.

Just try eating less carbs to start. Make a low carb meal plan and stick with it. I didn't start with the meal plan I have above. I started by just cutting out everything high in carbs (regular beer, bread, pasta, fruit, potatoes, etc). I did that for the first 20 lbs, but then hit a plateau and had to start really counting calories and grams of fat, protein and carbs to start losing again.

Don't be strictly keto. Take breaks. Go a little wild every once in a while. There were weddings and vacations where I ate cake and pasta and drank a lot of beer, but afterwards, I got back in the groove and the weight shedding continued.

Read "The Dorito Effect". It's a great book and I learned a lot about modern food, nutrition and marvelous human body.


Why I Think Keto Works:

Calories in/calories out works great to maintain your weight. It doesn't really matter what those calories are. However, when you are already overweight and eating a lot of carbs, you are getting your energy from carbs converted to glucose. That's good, because that is the natural state of things. Body fat is not carbs and does not get converted to glucose like ingested carbs do. to burn body fat, your body has to convert it to ketones. Your body cannot switch from burning glucose to ketones instantly, so if you are eating a lot of carbs, but less than you are burning, your body runs out of fuel before it can start making more from fat reserves. You get hungry, real hungry, hungry for carbs, so you eat carbs, lots of them, before your body can switch to burning fat/ketones. It's a vicious cycle and it usually doesn't lead to weight loss without a lot of will power and exercise.

When you eat minimal carbs, your body switches to this ketogenesis state where it burns fat converted to ketones as fuel. But it does this everyday and doesn't ever enter the carb as fuel state so it doesn't crave carbs. This means if your body runs our of fat/fuel from food, it simply starts burning fat reserves.

I don't know if keto as a long term diet is healthy. All I know is that it's working for me, and I recommend anyone that wants to lose weight should at least consider it.
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