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Old 09-05-2018, 02:27 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Put in a meter and renter responsible for paying the electric. That'll snuff out leaving shit running because it costs "nothing".

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Old 09-05-2018, 04:01 PM   #27 (permalink)
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That's easy enough, just divide the result by zero.
Uh ohhhh...
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Old 09-05-2018, 04:07 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Look for grow lights in the attic!


In all seriousness, add another meter & let the tenants deal w/second landlord (electric company). Less headaches, believe me-
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Old 09-05-2018, 04:17 PM   #29 (permalink)
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no, there's no good way to measure it at that scale with any hack fuck method you're going to contrive for $50 dollars.
Like fuck there isn't.

When the tenants were paying for hydro at my rental unit, I bought a used old style meter off ebay for $10 or $15. I built a plywood enclosure and used 1/4 inch bolts to attach wires to it. I used it to feed my "shed-port" I didn't want the tenants claiming I was burning hundreds of dollars of power each month when I wasn't. I used it to block-heat my skid steer before going out plowing. After a year I had used less than $20.

Is a used ebay meter in a plywood base hack fuck enough for ya?

I've still got it kicking around the warehouse, as it's not needed anymore since I'm paying the hydro now.

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Why couldn't I just run 4 or 5 wires through the clamp?
First off, a clamp meter is not additive, they only tell you how many amps are flowing this very second. This needs something that totals the power, like a house meter...unless you're gonna spend all day and night staring at it waiting for them to power up their death star.
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Old 09-05-2018, 04:25 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Is a used ebay meter in a plywood base hack fuck enough for ya?
Too hack fuck. Why would you cobble something like that together when you can just buy a nice safe meter pan?

https://www.homedepot.com/b/Electric...r/N-5yc1vZc9i5
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Old 09-05-2018, 04:49 PM   #31 (permalink)
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I have a z-wave power meter that works with my home automation hub. It has clamps that go around the two main lines in to my breaker panel and shows usage in real time and cumulative. It'd actually work for OP if he could clump the wires from each breaker by leg and get a clamp around them.

I don't really do anything with it, but it was cheap and seemed cool at the time. Theoretically I could set alerts to tell me when there's abnormal usage or if the AC were running constantly...but I don't.
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Old 09-05-2018, 04:55 PM   #32 (permalink)
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I think that would work, but you would need two clamps, with one phase going through each. So you gotta track down which phase each wire is on.

If you run both phases through one clamp, they cancel out.
I been retired too long... That's correct....
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Old 09-05-2018, 05:03 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Certainly ways you can do it without a meter.... but look at the bigger picture - unless I'm misreading, you're trying to measure tenant power usage for the purposes of billing them/limiting what they use which means that it's got to be something that's going to be defensible in court or at least up to that standard. First thing that's going to happen if you go confront them with some hack job numbers is they'll get all defensive and claim it's BS or you're using all the power. Same thing with trying to pull hourly use and base on that - it's not really proof of anything. Only way to accomplish what you want is a no kidding meter, and it probably should have some sort of certification as well.

Then of course you're going to get into legalities of changing their lease, but's that a different problem....
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Old 09-05-2018, 06:06 PM   #34 (permalink)
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This. Rewire so apartment is on subpanel. Install e-mon d-mon. Profit.
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Old 09-05-2018, 09:54 PM   #35 (permalink)
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I use these to measure amps AC and DC https://www.amazon.com/Electronic-Sp...ct_top?ie=UTF8 I like it enough I carry one in my travel tool box.

As far as power usage and where to look. I would start by measuring what is currently being used from the main cables, then killing the main and go thru and re-tighten all of the connections in the panel/s.
Next look for florescent lighting that is not working or not working well (this is where I found my problems in the past). I dropped like $75 a month by fixing lights that I thought just did not work. Next go to LED everywhere you can afford to especially outside dusk to dawn lights they save me maybe $35+ a month.
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Old 09-06-2018, 06:40 AM   #36 (permalink)
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Pay $300 for This It comes with 2 CT's for your 2 phases, assuming your running a 240v service. Then follow this for how to hook it up. Will give you a kWH reading that you can compare to your monthly bill and have them pay proportional. Shouldn't take more than 30 minutes to get it up and running. I've used these for temp power services at construction sites and they are very simple.
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Old 09-06-2018, 06:55 AM   #37 (permalink)
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Pay $300 for This It comes with 2 CT's for your 2 phases, assuming your running a 240v service. Then follow this for how to hook it up. Will give you a kWH reading that you can compare to your monthly bill and have them pay proportional. Shouldn't take more than 30 minutes to get it up and running. I've used these for temp power services at construction sites and they are very simple.
I have to say it, there is only one "phase" with residential 240/120 power. He'd be looking at the two legs. If it were two phases it would be 208/120.
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Old 09-06-2018, 08:04 AM   #38 (permalink)
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Like fuck there isn't.


.
so 7 ebay power meters for the 7 individual circuits?
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Old 09-06-2018, 11:46 AM   #39 (permalink)
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Like fuck there isn't.

First off, a clamp meter is not additive, they only tell you how many amps are flowing this very second. This needs something that totals the power, like a house meter...unless you're gonna spend all day and night staring at it waiting for them to power up their death star.
I was talking about the clamp that the Levitron power meter has.

https://www.amazon.com/Leviton-1K240...98708670&psc=1

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Old 09-06-2018, 03:06 PM   #40 (permalink)
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so 7 ebay power meters for the 7 individual circuits?
Yeah, just put them all on one fuse.....duh!

You're right though, there would be some rewiring and likely a little pony panel involved.
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Old 09-06-2018, 04:02 PM   #41 (permalink)
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I have to say it, there is only one "phase" with residential 240/120 power. He'd be looking at the two legs. If it were two phases it would be 208/120.
It's all in the words....Take two phases of three phase and it'll run a single phase 240 motor ..There's also 240/120 three phase "wild leg" using just two transformers..Or three phase 240 volt with no neutral...
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Old 09-06-2018, 06:23 PM   #42 (permalink)
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It's all in the words....Take two phases of three phase and it'll run a single phase 240 motor ..There's also 240/120 three phase "wild leg" using just two transformers..Or three phase 240 volt with no neutral...
In order to have two phases in standard AC electricity, the peak of the voltage must be 60 degrees apart. This is why two phases which are both 120vrms to neutral are 208vrms relative to each other while residential split single phase 240/120 is 120vrms to neutral on each leg, and 240vrms relative to each other.
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Old 09-10-2018, 10:55 PM   #43 (permalink)
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In all seriousness, add another meter & let the tenants deal w/second landlord (electric company). Less headaches, believe me-
Looked into it. Power company wants $5k, they say it will need another line buried from the pole run into the building. Plus all the inside work needs to be done by a sparky per the PoCo, can't DIY it... so probably 7-8k total.
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Old 09-10-2018, 11:49 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Why not just get one of these and a Raspberry pi controller and you are golden.

Just need to do a little bit of coding to get it all up and running.
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Old 09-13-2018, 10:36 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Why not just get one of these and a Raspberry pi controller and you are golden.

Just need to do a little bit of coding to get it all up and running.
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Old 01-12-2019, 06:30 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Finally got a chance to get the meter put in a few days ago. Had the meter sitting on the counter for a couple months, just been busy with a million other things. Last month's power bill at over $700 made it become a higher priority. When the apartment has been empty, the shop bill runs around $200-250 (around 1000-1200 kwhr)... and that was before I replaced most of the old school fluorescent lights (10lb magnetic ballast ones) with LEDs

Anyhow, in 4 days they've used about 225 kw/hr.

In the lease they signed (which I wrote), it's written in that 350kw/hr is under the rent and anything over is on them. This equates to about $70 of electricity.


I'm wondering if that 350 kw/hr is being unrealistic? I based it off my house which is 3 bed, 2 bath plus a large garage. 2 people living there. My typical bill is around 400kw/hr.

The apartment is 1 bed, 1 bath. Electric would be lights, kitchen stove, washer/clothes dryer and that's it other than whatever they have plugged in.
Heat is a wood stove, water heater is on a different panel (it's here in the shop and supplies hot water in here at well).

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Old 01-12-2019, 07:19 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Just because they have a wood stove doesnt mean that they are using it exclusively for heat. Do they have plug in heaters?
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Old 01-12-2019, 07:29 PM   #48 (permalink)
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the national average is like 850kwh.

I'd expect a one bedroom apartment with two people to be less.
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Old 01-12-2019, 08:45 PM   #49 (permalink)
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They are too lazy and cheap to go get firewood, so they are heating the house with the oven .


Landlord pays for electricity, so that's not a problem .
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Old 01-12-2019, 09:52 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Firewood is provided.

I've suggested we pull out the stove and put in an oil fired Toyo stove, but for the time being the stove is there, it works and a Toyo stove is $$$.

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They are too lazy and cheap to go get firewood, so they are heating the house with the oven.

The guy living there has been for a couple years. Wasn't an issue until this summer when he decided to house a few more people "for a month or two"... (yeah I know, not my call on that)

Landlord pays for electricity, so that's not a problem .

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