measuring electrical use - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum
 
Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum  

Go Back   Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum > Miscellaneous > General Chit-Chat
Notices

Reply
 
Share LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-05-2018, 10:15 AM   #1 (permalink)
Registered User
 
nate379's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Member # 20099
Location: AK
Posts: 5,448
measuring electrical use

Have an apartment upstairs of the shop.

It's been rented out for ~3 years. Lately shop power bill has been $400+/month, where it's usually around $250. Have talked to them several times, as well as did a walk through and nothing seemed out of ordinary.
Last winter had a $700 bill when they plugged in trucks 24/7 plus were running g electric heaters for some reason.

We've gone as far as putting in LED bulbs (had old 8ft magnetic ballast lights). Occasional air compressor and welder use, 1 fridge, computer, printer, water heater, otherwise just the lights and some power tools.


The apartment shares a sub panel with part of the shop (building is on 3 subpanels... it started out 30years ago as a little 2 story cabin, now is about 5000 Sq ft)


Without rewiring and setting up a meter, ideas how to measure power usage?

We want to do for example, 300 kw/hr included in rent, anything over tenant pays for.

Last edited by nate379; 09-05-2018 at 10:16 AM.
nate379 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-05-2018, 10:19 AM   #2 (permalink)
Pirate4x4 Addict!
 
Corey Young's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Member # 21622
Location: Washington State
Posts: 7,123
Send a message via AIM to Corey Young Send a message via Yahoo to Corey Young
Clamp on meter. Put it on the exposed wires.
Corey Young is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-05-2018, 10:21 AM   #3 (permalink)
Registered User
 
bigun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Member # 29037
Location: Mountainair NM
Posts: 13,599
Does the apartment have a separate subpanel if it is I think there is a meter you can add into the panel that will measure use
bigun is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-05-2018, 10:21 AM   #4 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Member # 86724
Posts: 29,735
just put a fucking meter in.

or eat the electricity.

no, there's no good way to measure it at that scale with any hack fuck method you're going to contrive for $50 dollars.
It's KWs of energy at 220V. This isn't some bullshit 15A circuit you can measure with a kill a watt. There are "smart home" amperage meters that use clamps, but you'll spend $500 on one of those. So again, just install a meter and be legit.
__________________
Electricity is really just organized lightning.
87manche is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-05-2018, 10:23 AM   #5 (permalink)
Registered User
 
eDaddi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Member # 19204
Location: Location Location!
Posts: 2,187
I use a few of these Kill A Watt devices to measure what my crypto mining machines are pulling. Could be a PIA and time consuming to move them around a whole house looking for draw.

I've been reading a lot about The Sense as well. It may suite you better. Considering getting one but was going to ask if anybody on here has experience with it.
__________________
America is all about speed. Hot, Nasty, Bad-ass Speed.
-Eleanor Roosevelt
eDaddi is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-05-2018, 10:23 AM   #6 (permalink)
Registered User
 
nate379's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Member # 20099
Location: AK
Posts: 5,448
The apartment has 7 or 8 circuits though.

Looked into the "sense" but it only has 2 clamps.

Dang you guys are quick, I was replying to the first post.

Last edited by nate379; 09-05-2018 at 10:24 AM.
nate379 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-05-2018, 10:24 AM   #7 (permalink)
Pirate4x4 Addict!
 
emiller22207's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Member # 116537
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 8,159
I would imagine there's some type of data logger (hell you might be able to get the data from the utility) that would show you kWh usage throughout the day and see if there are spikes or average usage when the shop is not open or in heavy use. That would probably give you enough information to ask the tenants a few questions and get an idea of their use vs yours.
__________________
May those that love us, love us; and for those that don't love us, may God turn their hearts; and if he can't turn their hearts, may he turn their ankles; so we may know them by their limping
emiller22207 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-05-2018, 10:27 AM   #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
nate379's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Member # 20099
Location: AK
Posts: 5,448
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigun View Post
Does the apartment have a separate subpanel if it is I think there is a meter you can add into the panel that will measure use
No, would be easy then.

Trying to not have to rewire everything.

For all we know it may be some weird draw in the shop spiking the bill, though suspect it's from the apartment.

Last edited by nate379; 09-05-2018 at 10:29 AM.
nate379 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-05-2018, 10:27 AM   #9 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Member # 86724
Posts: 29,735
Quote:
Originally Posted by nate379 View Post
The apartment has 7 or 8 circuits though.

Looked into the "sense" but it only has 2 clamps.

Dang you guys are quick, I was replying to the first post.
exactly, the only feasible way to do it is to sub panel the apartment and install a meter in between your panel and theirs.

there's no easy way to measure the KWH usage of 7 or 8 110V circuits.

look at it this way, if it costs you $500 to rewire it into it's own subpanel one time, and it saves you 1K this winter when they're ballin with space heaters, what's your loss here?

Leviton makes a bunch of clamp on 220V meters for this exact purpose. They're like $150 bucks. They are even remote readable if you want, so your tenants can have the numbers in their apartment and can't claim they didn't know how much wattage they were using.
__________________
Electricity is really just organized lightning.
87manche is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-05-2018, 10:32 AM   #10 (permalink)
Registered User
 
nate379's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Member # 20099
Location: AK
Posts: 5,448
This?

https://www.amazon.com/Leviton-1K240...98708670&psc=1
nate379 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-05-2018, 10:38 AM   #11 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Member # 86724
Posts: 29,735
that would do it.

but if you have to rewire it for a sub panel, just grab a panel with a meter base in it.

https://www.truevalue.com/meter-main...79&cid=gooshop

shove a meter into that bastard, set them up on a 100A sub panel.
never worry about apartment power usage again.


edit:
bonus that pulling the meter kills the apartment electricity, for when they refuse to pay.
__________________
Electricity is really just organized lightning.

Last edited by 87manche; 09-05-2018 at 10:39 AM.
87manche is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-05-2018, 10:40 AM   #12 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Member # 198851
Location: In a state of insanity
Posts: 5,212
OP says the apartment shares a panel with the shop and the apt has about 7 circuits..So you would need 7 measuring devices to capture the total load/wattage...If the apt had it's own panel it would be no problem.
__________________
I'm not all that smart...but smart enough to realize it...
ADChevy4x4 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-05-2018, 10:46 AM   #13 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Member # 86724
Posts: 29,735
Quote:
Originally Posted by ADChevy4x4 View Post
OP says the apartment shares a panel with the shop and the apt has about 7 circuits..So you would need 7 measuring devices to capture the total load/wattage...If the apt had it's own panel it would be no problem.
and each measurement device is $150.

so it's just cheaper to do it right and put the apartment on a sub panel with a meter base.


do try and keep up.
__________________
Electricity is really just organized lightning.
87manche is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-05-2018, 10:55 AM   #14 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Member # 29527
Location: WA
Posts: 38,226
I have a meter on my HVAC sub-system. Works great, and was fairly simple to put in. Cheap meter pan, small sub panel (both from the local box store), and a utility meter from EGhey.

https://www.ebay.com/b/Electrical-Us...991/bn_7653632

For example...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/GE-ELECTRIC...gAAOSw-ndTmkkQ
__________________
The original Fuckwad Penis.

Last edited by CrustyJeep; 09-05-2018 at 10:57 AM.
CrustyJeep is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-05-2018, 10:57 AM   #15 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Member # 143737
Location: NH
Posts: 2,314
Thread elsewhere on Sense

https://www.neow.net/topic/117758-se...omment-1787373
__________________
POS Ranger on narrow 3/4 tons with a 357w noise maker
posford is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-05-2018, 11:04 AM   #16 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Member # 167070
Location: w. ma
Posts: 229
E-Mon D-Mon Class 1000 Single-Phase kWh Electric SubMeters - Kilo-Watt Hour Meters Emon Dmon Submeters - Test Equipment Depot

E-MON D-MON, used to install these for customers.
BUCKLAND is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-05-2018, 11:08 AM   #17 (permalink)
Window Licker
 
bgaidan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Member # 34948
Location: NC Triangle
Posts: 14,648
Blog Entries: 1
Checking each circuit with a clamp meter will at least tell you which one to look at. You can check the main meter throughout the day to figure out if/when the usage goes up.

If the tenant's not paying the electrical bill they're never going to give a fuck about usage.
__________________
Quote:
I love Dicks and will continue to shop there.
bgaidan is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-05-2018, 11:38 AM   #18 (permalink)
Registered User
 
eDaddi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Member # 19204
Location: Location Location!
Posts: 2,187
Quote:
Originally Posted by posford View Post
Damn good thread. Impressive actually. I'm gonna get one.
__________________
America is all about speed. Hot, Nasty, Bad-ass Speed.
-Eleanor Roosevelt
eDaddi is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-05-2018, 11:40 AM   #19 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Member # 96278
Location: Beside the point.
Posts: 9,270
Quote:
Originally Posted by emiller22207 View Post
I would imagine there's some type of data logger (hell you might be able to get the data from the utility) that would show you kWh usage throughout the day and see if there are spikes or average usage when the shop is not open or in heavy use. That would probably give you enough information to ask the tenants a few questions and get an idea of their use vs yours.
Yup. Hired a local electrician with one ()when I thought my tenants were growing weed. Graphed out usage over time for every leg. Turns out they took a lot of really long showers. Well, she did. Pretty sure he didn't.
__________________
Drink to the dead all you still alive
We shall join them in good time
cj5.5 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-05-2018, 11:46 AM   #20 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Member # 547
Location: CITRUS HEIGHTS /Placerville CA.
Posts: 3,316
Quote:
Originally Posted by emiller22207 View Post
I would imagine there's some type of data logger (hell you might be able to get the data from the utility) that would show you kWh usage throughout the day and see if there are spikes or average usage when the shop is not open or in heavy use. That would probably give you enough information to ask the tenants a few questions and get an idea of their use vs yours.
This, our utility has hourly data available on line. when our tenant was gone on vacation we were able to get a good estimate of what their usage was by subtracting our normal usage from the total usage.
__________________
RocknRoll4x4.com Club Member
Been a FOUNDING FOTR since day one!!!

Last edited by FLASHLIGHTMAN; 09-06-2018 at 03:31 PM.
FLASHLIGHTMAN is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-05-2018, 11:54 AM   #21 (permalink)
Safety third!
 
Dr.Danger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Member # 168243
Location: College Station, TX
Posts: 11,330
My vote is get a meter installed. It sounds like you've already eaten a good chunk of the cost of one.

The only time I ever had to dick with power included it became a problem. There's always one tenant that has no concept of what he/she is using. Solve the problem permanently.
__________________
-Dave

Quote:
By the way, Irregardless does pass spell check and it is a word. The meaning is exactly the same, you just want to play games

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


For the best deal on 8 lug disc brakes click here-->
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Dr.Danger is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-05-2018, 11:56 AM   #22 (permalink)
Registered User
 
nate379's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Member # 20099
Location: AK
Posts: 5,448
Quote:
Originally Posted by ADChevy4x4 View Post
OP says the apartment shares a panel with the shop and the apt has about 7 circuits..So you would need 7 measuring devices to capture the total load/wattage...If the apt had it's own panel it would be no problem.
Why couldn't I just run 4 or 5 wires through the clamp?
nate379 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-05-2018, 12:04 PM   #23 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Member # 29527
Location: WA
Posts: 38,226
Quote:
Originally Posted by nate379 View Post
Why couldn't I just run 4 or 5 wires through the clamp?
I think that would work, but you would need two clamps, with one phase going through each. So you gotta track down which phase each wire is on.

If you run both phases through one clamp, they cancel out.
__________________
The original Fuckwad Penis.
CrustyJeep is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-05-2018, 12:42 PM   #24 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Member # 96278
Location: Beside the point.
Posts: 9,270
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrustyJeep View Post
If you run both phases through one clamp, they cancel out.
That's easy enough, just divide the result by zero.
__________________
Drink to the dead all you still alive
We shall join them in good time
cj5.5 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-05-2018, 01:55 PM   #25 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Member # 82607
Location: Jackson, NY
Posts: 2,432
Look for grow lights in the attic!
dave_dj1 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

** A VERIFICATION EMAIL IS SENT TO THIS ADDRESS TO COMPLETE REGISTRATION!! **

Email Address:
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:36 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.