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Old 11-12-2018, 10:42 AM   #76 (permalink)
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In any war since WW2, I think I would have a real problem with being drafted. I was not alive during Vietnam. In hindsight countless lives were wasted over bad leadership and politics. I personally cannot blame anyone like Trump who might have avoided it at all costs.
I know thats an unpopular opinion, but ive grown to feel the same way. The USA hasnt set out to win a war since 1945.
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Old 11-12-2018, 01:40 PM   #77 (permalink)
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I know thats an unpopular opinion, but ive grown to feel the same way. The USA hasnt set out to win a war since 1945.
Meh 1st draft was under a republican pres by the name of Lincoln. Called the Conscription act and fed exceptionally unpleasant event called the Civil war for anyone that couldn't pay the some $300 "bribe" to get out. Roits in NY are even mentioned in the movie "Gangs of NY" which, for the most part is historically accurate about Tammany, the gangs and the Conscription act riots. Yes the Know nothings and the Dead rabbit gangs did in fact exist.

Yes there were lots of volunteers in WW1 and 2 but the majority of folks were drafted...ditto Spanish American war, Korea and Viet Nam.

Interestingly even Private Alvin York was drafted, claimed CO status but served later. Several other draftees are CMoH winners so its not like folks don't rise to the occasion if confronted.
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Old 11-12-2018, 05:14 PM   #78 (permalink)
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Personally I think you should be a veteran or employed property owner to vote.
With this, the number of voters in NYC alone would drop from millions to thousands. Upstate NY would become relevant, from a voting perspective.
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Old 11-12-2018, 05:38 PM   #79 (permalink)
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With this, the number of voters in NYC alone would drop from millions to thousands. Upstate NY would become relevant, from a voting perspective.
you guys realize that starship troopers was a satirical warning about the military industrial complex overtaking democracy, not a game plan, right?
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Old 11-12-2018, 05:54 PM   #80 (permalink)
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Any kid with a brighter prospect does something else.
I know many kids who chose the military even with great options elsewhere. My daughter had tons of options, ended up attending Purdue on a Navy scholarship, owes them 5 years after graduation and commissioning. Many of her high school classmates took similar paths.
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Old 11-12-2018, 08:05 PM   #81 (permalink)
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I'm on the freedom side of this argument. All you people that aren't--explain this again for us slow kids. Your Norman Rockwell idea of patriotism is forcing kids to "serve" against their will. And this is somehow more patriotic and 'Merican than reading the Constitution. Did I miss anything?
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Old 11-12-2018, 08:33 PM   #82 (permalink)
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Only Verhoeven's bastardization of the original story. Don't get me wrong, I love the movie but the book is quite different.
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Old 11-12-2018, 09:29 PM   #83 (permalink)
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you guys realize that starship troopers was a satirical warning about the military industrial complex overtaking democracy, not a game plan, right?


Actually, the rulers of this world, governed by their leader in the darkness, must tell the masses what they are doing. They deceive us by putting it in ďentertainmentĒ. They have a name for it. Itís called predictive programming, aka, television programming. Our military industrial complex is the gun barrel of the International Banking Elites.

Itís our free will that cannot be messed with. In our own ignorance, we continue to give them dominion over us. Our democratic republic, the greatest experiment of human liberty in recorded history is being lost to a lucifarian cult of death, destruction, and domination. They tell us to our face in so many ways, yet our programming tells us to just keep consuming the toxins, trust the government, and submit to authority.

Frighteningly, if we donít wake up in mass, the silent weapons used against us will turn to hard weapons for those that donít succumb to them. Those that survive will become slaves again.

For those that still believe our military is a force for good, I pray to God you begin to see. Once you begin to see, keep looking. Tell others, everyone you see. Get to the hearts and minds of those serving today. Lead them to the truth. I have no doubt that most of our soldiers are honorable, but they have no idea the master they serve and the consequences of their deeds until itís too late. I hate to say it, but every conflict is truly nothing more than human sacrifice on a grand scale. This is also the true purpose for abortion. It feeds the darkness.

I thank God often for sparing me from enlisting. Twice I tried, twice, I was spared. I didnít understand at the time, but knowing what I know now, Iím forever grateful.
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Old 11-12-2018, 10:02 PM   #84 (permalink)
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Actually, the rulers of this world, governed by their leader in the darkness, must tell the masses what they are doing. They deceive us by putting it in ďentertainmentĒ. They have a name for it. Itís called predictive programming, aka, television programming. Our military industrial complex is the gun barrel of the International Banking Elites.

Itís our free will that cannot be messed with. In our own ignorance, we continue to give them dominion over us. Our democratic republic, the greatest experiment of human liberty in recorded history is being lost to a lucifarian cult of death, destruction, and domination. They tell us to our face in so many ways, yet our programming tells us to just keep consuming the toxins, trust the government, and submit to authority.

Frighteningly, if we donít wake up in mass, the silent weapons used against us will turn to hard weapons for those that donít succumb to them. Those that survive will become slaves again.

For those that still believe our military is a force for good, I pray to God you begin to see. Once you begin to see, keep looking. Tell others, everyone you see. Get to the hearts and minds of those serving today. Lead them to the truth. I have no doubt that most of our soldiers are honorable, but they have no idea the master they serve and the consequences of their deeds until itís too late. I hate to say it, but every conflict is truly nothing more than human sacrifice on a grand scale. This is also the true purpose for abortion. It feeds the darkness.

I thank God often for sparing me from enlisting. Twice I tried, twice, I was spared. I didnít understand at the time, but knowing what I know now, Iím forever grateful.
Okay, youíre a nut job and thatís a bunch of shit. Thereís always going to be bad guys that need killed and if you donít like how we do it, you really wonít like how the bad guys do it. Enjoy your nice safe sleep behind the protection of our soldiers.
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Old 11-12-2018, 10:07 PM   #85 (permalink)
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you guys realize that starship troopers was a satirical warning about the military industrial complex overtaking democracy, not a game plan, right?


Actually, the rulers of this world, governed by their leader in the darkness, must tell the masses what they are doing. They deceive us by putting it in “entertainment”. They have a name for it. It’s called predictive programming, aka, television programming. Our military industrial complex is the gun barrel of the International Banking Elites.

It’s our free will that cannot be messed with. In our own ignorance, we continue to give them dominion over us. Our democratic republic, the greatest experiment of human liberty in recorded history is being lost to a lucifarian cult of death, destruction, and domination. They tell us to our face in so many ways, yet our programming tells us to just keep consuming the toxins, trust the government, and submit to authority.

Frighteningly, if we don’t wake up in mass, the silent weapons used against us will turn to hard weapons for those that don’t succumb to them. Those that survive will become slaves again.

For those that still believe our military is a force for good, I pray to God you begin to see. Once you begin to see, keep looking. Tell others, everyone you see. Get to the hearts and minds of those serving today. Lead them to the truth. I have no doubt that most of our soldiers are honorable, but they have no idea the master they serve and the consequences of their deeds until it’s too late. I hate to say it, but every conflict is truly nothing more than human sacrifice on a grand scale. This is also the true purpose for abortion. It feeds the darkness.

I thank God often for sparing me from enlisting. Twice I tried, twice, I was spared. I didn’t understand at the time, but knowing what I know now, I’m forever grateful.
Fuck me, I need tinfoil just for reading that!
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Old 11-13-2018, 03:55 AM   #86 (permalink)
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Okay, youíre a nut job and thatís a bunch of shit. Thereís always going to be bad guys that need killed and if you donít like how we do it, you really wonít like how the bad guys do it. Enjoy your nice safe sleep behind the protection of our soldiers.


Iím not denying that. The point is that youíre killing who they tell you to in most cases. Especially in war. Send in the U.S. muscle to destabilize and then let the banksters implement their deeds at the expense of the people. Take Middle East for example. We killed people that were told are bad, but in reality, it was us on the back side that made them that way. Soldiers get sent to fight only to be killed by our weapons. Meanwhile, empire keeps growing, resources plundered, and the real evil is our ally propping up our worthless money.
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Old 11-13-2018, 03:56 AM   #87 (permalink)
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Fuck me, I need tinfoil just for reading that!


Tinfoil will help them cook you. Try silver screen.
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Old 11-13-2018, 04:47 AM   #88 (permalink)
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Actually, the rulers of this world, governed by their leader in the darkness, must tell the masses what they are doing. They deceive us by putting it in ďentertainmentĒ. They have a name for it. Itís called predictive programming, aka, television programming. Our military industrial complex is the gun barrel of the International Banking Elites.

Itís our free will that cannot be messed with. In our own ignorance, we continue to give them dominion over us. Our democratic republic, the greatest experiment of human liberty in recorded history is being lost to a lucifarian cult of death, destruction, and domination. They tell us to our face in so many ways, yet our programming tells us to just keep consuming the toxins, trust the government, and submit to authority.

Frighteningly, if we donít wake up in mass, the silent weapons used against us will turn to hard weapons for those that donít succumb to them. Those that survive will become slaves again.

For those that still believe our military is a force for good, I pray to God you begin to see. Once you begin to see, keep looking. Tell others, everyone you see. Get to the hearts and minds of those serving today. Lead them to the truth. I have no doubt that most of our soldiers are honorable, but they have no idea the master they serve and the consequences of their deeds until itís too late. I hate to say it, but every conflict is truly nothing more than human sacrifice on a grand scale. This is also the true purpose for abortion. It feeds the darkness.

I thank God often for sparing me from enlisting. Twice I tried, twice, I was spared. I didnít understand at the time, but knowing what I know now, Iím forever grateful.
While you are totally correct - I would add the "leader in the darkness" is simply the human animal instead of rational thought or "rational" thought with missing information. It just happens in capitalism. There is no intent, or singular "leader" or any "controlling forces".

Overbear could actually do a rational thought for instance, but his information overview is lacking., Thus, he will always decide incorrectly. (but correctly in his viewpoint and his information)

Very many humans never believe anything that they do not see / did not see with their own eyes. (flat earth anyone?)


Where you are right completely is: the time where democracy was the cause for wars is loooooong gone. Men and women die so that people with money make more money and happy shareholders.

Don't even give me crap on "saving irak and bringing democracy".

I currently live in a "saved" country. Let me tell you, hollywood / US propaganda is so strong, it influences kids here. They are acting like entitled retarded, groupthink enabled, feindbild having low IQ idiots that are losing the ability to think clearly and using rational thought.

Not 20 years ago, the wave of propaganda was not engraining itself that well - parents still saw and understood propaganda, and taught their kids to spot it. Only some learned and understood - as they did not experience it with their own eyes....

Their kids have no propaganda spotting capabilities. The far Nazi right is making progress again - this country is going down the same shithole that Americas citizens is "completely" stuck in since years.

Sad, really. Moving to Switzerland next.
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Old 11-13-2018, 04:51 AM   #89 (permalink)
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And ignore those single, loud speaking mouthbreathers that only react with Angst, most are just scared of anything that is not in their comfort circle of biased, spoon fed propaganda influenced make believe reality - and want to kill "different" or simply everyone.
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Old 11-13-2018, 07:37 AM   #90 (permalink)
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Service guarantees citizenship!

(would you like to know more?)
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Old 11-13-2018, 09:16 AM   #91 (permalink)
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Some of the tax monies already destined to fund infrastructure work could offset that portion of the military's expense.
Show me a government infrastructure project that operates more cost effectively than a comparable private industry contractor. Plus, 2-years isn't that long of a period of time, how much of that would be chewed up by training. Sounds expensive and unamerican.
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Old 11-13-2018, 09:18 AM   #92 (permalink)
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NO.


I have a hard enough time getting through to and training 18 & 19 y/o kids who actually want to be in the military.
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Old 11-13-2018, 12:27 PM   #93 (permalink)
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Only Verhoeven's bastardization of the original story. Don't get me wrong, I love the movie but the book is quite different.
certainly the movie exaggerated it much more than the book, but it's still there. The whole thing is about questioning the use of the military and it's influences on government. How many "police actions" were there in the book before the buenos aires strike and an actual war declaration? How parallel is that to us today? Heinlein couldn't have known that we'd be in a constant state of war, without war being declared, but apparently he was a fucking fortune teller.
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Show me a government infrastructure project that operates more cost effectively than a comparable private industry contractor. Plus, 2-years isn't that long of a period of time, how much of that would be chewed up by training. Sounds expensive and unamerican.
lets call it what it eventually becomes, social welfare.

2 years of housing and feeding teenagers that don't want to be there.
The taxpayer will never recoup a benefit that amounts to what was spent.

which is what amuses me so much here. Every other day all of these proponents would decry social welfare programs for the poor, yet because you tossed the word "military" in there everyone is all for it.

congratulations, you played yourself.

This is literally a progressive's wet dream social program.
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Old 11-13-2018, 05:07 PM   #94 (permalink)
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Question: How long does it take the average person to become a United States Marine?

Answer: The average person will never be a United States Marine.
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Old 11-13-2018, 05:19 PM   #95 (permalink)
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As much as I think two years in the military would do some people some good, Iíd still have to say no. We had enough slugs who somehow passed screening to enlist, then somehow actually made it through basic training. I just canít imagine the oxygen wasters who would be there because they had to be
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Old 11-13-2018, 05:33 PM   #96 (permalink)
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I guess working and paying taxes isnt enough of a civil service?
You mean you don't want slavery along with your .gov shakedown?


Definitely a fat no from me. High school was bad enough, we don't need a military full of young people that don't want to be there.

I am thankful to our service members for volunteering and keeping our military populated. I just don't believe in forced service that leads our young people into foreign wars. It's debatable, but I think much of it is avoidable, and I'm friends with enough Vietnam draftees to agree with their point of view on the matter.

I strongly dislike the idea of the draft, but if things got bad enough, I feel it's necessary. If our homeland were truly under attack, we needed soldiers desperately, and they opened the age limits, I'd volunteer before being told. I'd like to think most would in that situation.

In the meantime, forced service is flat out not needed in my opinion.
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Old 11-14-2018, 10:40 AM   #97 (permalink)
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we have the draft in place, for this purpose, and our military has enough waste and keeps downsizing.....

as to this idea by @fearfact

es an no..not a mandatory military service but I do feel there should be a civil service type of duty. There are programs like city year, food pantries, homeless shelters, big brother/big sisters, peace corps, police,fire,rescue and so many more, yes military service would also count for your obligation but I feel there are many other ways to contribute something and all involve structure,responsibility and a degree of discipline/order...
I also see zero reason for there to be any fucking litter, graffiti etc in our public areas when we have such an overwhelming use of the unemployment&welfare systems. There should be a community service requirement along with proof of employment pursuit for every goddamned penny collected.


Taxes would have to go up, if we are now paying every 18-20 year old to be a government employee, let alone the "management" to handle said influx and keep them "busy" as .gov people are...
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