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Old 03-02-2019, 12:55 PM   #26 (permalink)
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No black market riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. Like there’s no cigarette black market out there either or no pot black market in Kalifornia where pot is legal.
Pirate is running a off-road part "black market". Doubt everyone is paying taxes on those sales. You should only buy from a business for your automotive needs.
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Old 03-02-2019, 01:57 PM   #27 (permalink)
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The issue I see here, is the so called "MC" is a criminal organisation, not some kind of helpful group. We are talking scum of the earth here not good citizens, makes me curious why some of you are defending them.
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Old 03-02-2019, 10:10 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Awesome, lets waste more tax dollars for pet projects for things that should be legal.
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so how about we just make all of those things legal, and stop spending trillions of dollars each year prohibiting things that American's obviously want?

no black market, no violent organized crime to run said black market.

didn't prohibition teach us anything?
Yeah, I mean there is an argument to make for legalization, and theoretically less people getting locked up for petty crime, which translates to saving tax payer dollars on housing/feeding petty criminals, etc. Plus, less violence theoretically. The big thing is that with legalization has to come education, so that our youth understands that just because something is legal does not mean it's good. For example, I teach my kids how terrible soda and juice is for them. We don't give them soda or fruit juice. Both legal, both loaded with sugar that is terrible for their bodies.

Unfortunately, we have done a shit job of educating our youth about the dangers of alcohol (which probably causes more harm, direct or indirect, than many illegal drugs). We did a much better job educating our youth about tobacco, which is why it's not cool to smoke any more and smoking has dropped off dramatically. You can see the difference night and day. But, if these currently illegal drugs are made legal, which path will our government take with education? I don't know the answer, but it's a very important question.

Even if these drugs/prostitution are made legal, it does not change the fact that these are some low life, bottom feeders we're talking about here. So, if they are breaking the law, I don't have a problem with LE going after them, but I'd rather it be direct action, and not some pussy footing around about copy right BS.

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have you considered that those things exist because of taxation and regulation?

You don't strike me as an absolute fucktard, but you're getting there.
Taxation and regulation on alcohol and cigarettes has not resulted in crazy street violence, etc. Unless you believe the Moonshiner's TV show is real... Or the guy in New York accidentally choked to death by a police officer over selling boot leg cigarettes. That is a far cry from the norm.
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Old 03-02-2019, 10:14 PM   #29 (permalink)
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The issue I see here, is the so called "MC" is a criminal organisation, not some kind of helpful group. We are talking scum of the earth here not good citizens, makes me curious why some of you are defending them.
Yeah, I agree. We're not talking about your local Harley Owner's Group (HOG) with a bunch of yuppee's riding bikes. If it wasn't slinging drugs and prostitutes, they would find a way to be up to bad shit. People like to idolize them because of Sons of Anarchy and think they are macho guys. I doubt you would find many of them willing to go toe to toe, with no weapons, and no backup from the group. They are a gang and operate with gang mentality (basically without honor).
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Old 03-02-2019, 10:40 PM   #30 (permalink)
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If it wasn't slinging drugs and prostitutes, they would find a way to be up to bad shit.
But there is a criminal profit to be made only because those things are illegal.

If there were legal alternatives, Shitbag, Inc. would have very little business.

By the same token, Cop, Inc. would lose a bunch of plundering opportunities.

Having those things illegal is great for controlling, not protecting, the public.
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Old 03-02-2019, 10:57 PM   #31 (permalink)
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But there is a criminal profit to be made only because those things are illegal.

If there were legal alternatives, Shitbag, Inc. would have very little business.

By the same token, Cop, Inc. would lose a bunch of plundering opportunities.

Having those things illegal is great for controlling, not protecting, the public.
Did you somehow miss the first part of my post where I mention there is real merit in looking into legalization of many currently illegal drugs?

Are you saying that if everything were legal, the guys from these MC gangs would be upstanding citizens. Cause that's fuckin' retarded. Some people are shitbags. Should we make it legal to steal shit? A lot of these guys deal in stolen vehicles, and theft in general. The mafia was notorious for shit falling off trucks and getting sold on the street. Some people are just fuckin' turds.

Make all the drugs legal, do you think every inner city gang banger is going to go to college and get an office job? Let's be real. I was real enough to say there is merit in looking into legalizing drugs. Not saying it's the right path, but worth discussion. Portugal is a good case study. I have a degree in Economics and when you look into public policy, you start to look into effects of these types of changes.

Also, you do know there are good cops as well, right? I had a friend whose Dad was a cop, and every family member had a brand new vehicle with tons of money in aftermarket parts. Brand new $40K pool, and all kinds of toys.
His Dad was the same rank as my Dad. We were flat broke (cops don't make much money). So yeah, some are on the take. Some aren't. My Dad taught me honesty, integrity, and honor. I know there are some cops out there that aren't all about that, but there are plenty of good ones too. I've actually been pulled over because a cop was profiling, and written a BS ticket (defective license plate light, that actually worked). My Dad talked to his Captain and had him busted down to shit detail for profiling. Not because he did it to a cop's son, but because it give cops a bad name for doing that.
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Old 03-03-2019, 12:48 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Also, you do know there are good cops as well, right?
Absolutely!

I know more L.E.O.s personally than I ever expected to (life happens in between making plans).
Cops run the spectrum from golden to shit, just like "real people" (Reservoir Dogs reference ) .

I wasn't referring to individual officers when I typed "Cop, Inc."; rather, to L.E. agencies that embrace a profit motive.
If you put a profit motive into police work, you encourage thugs, gangs, and jackin' - same as with dealing drugs & whores.
Removing criminal profits from any vocation makes criminals less likely to perform that function (e.g., crack vendor or cop).


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Make all the drugs legal, do you think every inner city gang banger is going to go to college and get an office job?
No, I don't think anyone thinks that. How best to explain this to you? . . .

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I have a degree in Economics
OK, then this should be easy:

If slinging crack paid much closer to minimum wage
(not thousands a week due to unnatural market constraints)
would that job be more or less attractive than it is now?
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Old 03-03-2019, 04:41 AM   #33 (permalink)
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They have a web site!

https://www.mongolsmc.com/welcome
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Old 03-03-2019, 05:40 AM   #34 (permalink)
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But there is a criminal profit to be made only because those things are illegal.

If there were legal alternatives, Shitbag, Inc. would have very little business.

By the same token, Cop, Inc. would lose a bunch of plundering opportunities.

Having those things illegal is great for controlling, not protecting, the public.
Scum is scum, there is nothing you or anyone else can "make legal" that would change the people that join MC's. They will find a new thing to make money doing that destroys others and causes damage to society as a whole.

So the question becomes, why are you trying so hard to defend them and deflect from the truth?
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Old 03-03-2019, 08:36 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Scum is scum, there is nothing you or anyone else can "make legal" that would change the people that join MC's. They will find a new thing to make money doing that destroys others and causes damage to society as a whole.

So the question becomes, why are you trying so hard to defend them and deflect from the truth?
Set aside your blinders (or wipe the cum out of your eyes), oh hateful cupcake.

I've done exactly zero to defend anyone's actions in this thread. Explaining someone's motivation doesn't excuse their choices. I've argued that legalizing vices would remove unnatural financial reward (i.e., "criminal profit") from that work, leaving it no more attractive than . . . "real work".

So the question becomes: why are you trying so hard to reiterate your myopic and predictable point?
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Old 03-03-2019, 10:03 AM   #36 (permalink)
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Why are some so fascinated with biker (gangs)? Yeah Club, whatever.
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Old 03-03-2019, 10:06 AM   #37 (permalink)
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The Mongols cash cow is most likely meth. Meth is never going to be legal.
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Old 03-03-2019, 10:24 AM   #38 (permalink)
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Why are some so fascinated with biker (gangs)? Yeah Club, whatever.
Same with the mafia , I find the history of them interesting but know the reality is they are just criminal organizations, nothing more nothing less.
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Old 03-03-2019, 10:30 AM   #39 (permalink)
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The Mongols cash cow is most likely meth. Meth is never going to be legal.
. . . therefore, the Mongols will always have funding if they're willing to sell meth.

You can't legislate morality, but you can ensure vice providers a ricockulous profit. Win?

To repeat: having those things illegal is great for controlling, not protecting, the public.
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Old 03-03-2019, 07:14 PM   #40 (permalink)
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. . . therefore, the Mongols will always have funding if they're willing to sell meth.

You can't legislate morality, but you can ensure vice providers a ricockulous profit. Win?

To repeat: having those things illegal is great for controlling, not protecting, the public.
This is like saying nothing should be illegal, and we should have no laws. Because anything that is illegal will have a negative impact on society. Not reality.

I also agree that even if you legalized many recreational drugs, it's a hard sell to legalize Meth. I could see heroin before meth...

So yeah, Meth will probably not be made legal, so go ahead and start crackin' down on the MC gangs. Their website is hilarious. "Support us. We've been under Federal Indictment for 9 years." Anyone that glorifies these gangs is just a fucking moron. Simple as that...
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Old 03-04-2019, 08:04 AM   #41 (permalink)
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The issue I see here, is the so called "MC" is a criminal organisation, not some kind of helpful group. We are talking scum of the earth here not good citizens, makes me curious why some of you are defending them.
because if you don't check the government, the government checks you.

remember when being gay was a crime?

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Yeah, I mean there is an argument to make for legalization, and theoretically less people getting locked up for petty crime, which translates to saving tax payer dollars on housing/feeding petty criminals, etc. Plus, less violence theoretically. The big thing is that with legalization has to come education, so that our youth understands that just because something is legal does not mean it's good. For example, I teach my kids how terrible soda and juice is for them. We don't give them soda or fruit juice. Both legal, both loaded with sugar that is terrible for their bodies.

Unfortunately, we have done a shit job of educating our youth about the dangers of alcohol (which probably causes more harm, direct or indirect, than many illegal drugs). We did a much better job educating our youth about tobacco, which is why it's not cool to smoke any more and smoking has dropped off dramatically. You can see the difference night and day. But, if these currently illegal drugs are made legal, which path will our government take with education? I don't know the answer, but it's a very important question.

Even if these drugs/prostitution are made legal, it does not change the fact that these are some low life, bottom feeders we're talking about here. So, if they are breaking the law, I don't have a problem with LE going after them, but I'd rather it be direct action, and not some pussy footing around about copy right BS.



Taxation and regulation on alcohol and cigarettes has not resulted in crazy street violence, etc. Unless you believe the Moonshiner's TV show is real... Or the guy in New York accidentally choked to death by a police officer over selling boot leg cigarettes. That is a far cry from the norm.
education isn't the government's problem. It's the parent's.
If you dn't teach your kids about the perils of life, they will die. This is no different than teaching them to look both ways before they cross the street.

fact is we need some good old fashioned darwin in this country.
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Old 03-04-2019, 08:12 AM   #42 (permalink)
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Old 03-04-2019, 08:28 AM   #43 (permalink)
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so how about we just make all of those things legal, and stop spending trillions of dollars each year prohibiting things that American's obviously want?

no black market, no violent organized crime to run said black market.

didn't prohibition teach us anything?
Okay, so make those things legal. You don't think they wouldn't move on to something else that was illegal to make money off of?
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Old 03-04-2019, 08:31 AM   #44 (permalink)
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Okay, so make those things legal. You don't think they wouldn't move on to something else that was illegal to make money off of?
and if we made those things not illegal, guess what? They aren't crimes anymore.

we need to stop attempting to legislate morality in this nation.

if it doesn't harm another human being, or their property, and you're not forcing anyone to do something against their will, then it shouldn't be a fucking crime.
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Old 03-04-2019, 09:14 AM   #45 (permalink)
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if it doesn't harm another human being, or their property, and you're not forcing anyone to do something against their will, then it shouldn't be a fucking crime.
Just outta curiosity, which crimes typically committed by these gangs, fit your above established criteria and should be legalized?
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Old 03-04-2019, 09:23 AM   #46 (permalink)
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Just outta curiosity, which crimes typically committed by these gangs, fit your above established criteria and should be legalized?
which crimes would be committed by gangs if we didn't create black markets for them to operate in with prohibition style laws?

if you could go down to a legal brothel, would you need to illegally traffic women?
If you could go down to the corner store and get drugs, would you need to traffic them?

If you no longer needed to traffic drugs and women to service a black market, would the crime associated with those actions still occur?

again, we learned all of this with prohibition.

let's turn this around.

Why do you think you have the ability to tell someone that they may not sell sex for profit?
Or that they may not put a substance into their own body?
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Old 03-04-2019, 09:44 AM   #47 (permalink)
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so how about we just make all of those things legal, and stop spending trillions of dollars each year prohibiting things that American's obviously want?

no black market, no violent organized crime to run said black market.

didn't prohibition teach us anything?
I mean....Nevada allows you to pay women for sex and you can purchases marijuana legally and the state hasn't fallen into a hole. We've survived a state income tax for a while, but our schools still need more money regardless of how much they get.

EDIT: @87manche Nevada still has a "human trafficking" problem. The problem is called "Interstate 80 plus California plus Utah" and Nevada is stuck in the middle. I can't say I've heard of many illegal prostitution rings being busted in Nevada lately on the scale of something a biker gang would do and we have a Hells Angles chapter in Reno.

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Old 03-04-2019, 09:45 AM   #48 (permalink)
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I mean....Nevada allows you to pay women for sex and you can purchases marijuana legally and the state hasn't fallen into a hole. We've survived a state income tax for a while, but our schools still need more money regardless of how much they get.
it's a start.
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Old 03-04-2019, 10:37 AM   #49 (permalink)
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and if we made those things not illegal, guess what? They aren't crimes anymore.

we need to stop attempting to legislate morality in this nation.

if it doesn't harm another human being, or their property, and you're not forcing anyone to do something against their will, then it shouldn't be a fucking crime.
Just looking at one drug, meth, I can't see how that could ever be legalized. It seems to destroy anyone it touches. Meth heads are going to be meth heads regardless of whether they get it on the corner or from a store. In the end they're still going to try to steal your shit.
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Old 03-04-2019, 11:41 AM   #50 (permalink)
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and if we made those things not illegal, guess what? They aren't crimes anymore.

we need to stop attempting to legislate morality in this nation.

if it doesn't harm another human being, or their property, and you're not forcing anyone to do something against their will, then it shouldn't be a fucking crime.
You didn't answer the question. If everything you have mentioned were made legal, do you not think they would move on to something that was still illegal to make their money or do you think they would become legitimate business men?

In other words, as long as there is something that is illegal that they can profit from, that is what they will do.
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