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Old 03-10-2019, 06:22 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Need some 240v help

My water heater sprunk a leak and needs replaced. In the circuit panel are two 30 amp breakers hooked together to give it power. I am looking to replace it with a tankless heater like this one.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Rheem-Pe...X-13/300800566
Specs for it say, 'Requires 1 x 60 Amp Double Pole Breaker'

Is this the same as what I already have? Seems like it but I want to double check.
The only other thing is my house has that aluminium wiring in it, and some of the other tankless heaters specify a particular size wire to supply it.

Am I good to go or do i have to straighten out some electrical stuff?
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Old 03-10-2019, 06:31 PM   #2 (permalink)
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You'll need to change the breaker to a 60 amp 2 pole and go up to a # 6 copper wire
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Old 03-10-2019, 06:33 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Definitely not the same. You have 30amps 240 volt.

You don't multiply the 30 just because you have 2 poles(breakers)

You need a dual pole 60 amp breaker and way bigger wire, depending on the run.
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Old 03-10-2019, 07:11 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Damn, I'm screwed then. I could change the breaker easy enough, but running the new wire is the deal breaker.
The water heater is in a small cabinet in the bathroom in the middle of the house. Too hard for me to run wire and no easier place to put it.
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Old 03-10-2019, 07:18 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Damn, I'm screwed then. I could change the breaker easy enough, but running the new wire is the deal breaker.
The water heater is in a small cabinet in the bathroom in the middle of the house. Too hard for me to run wire and no easier place to put it.
Return the tankless, buy a hybrid electric.
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Old 03-10-2019, 07:19 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Damn, I'm screwed then. I could change the breaker easy enough, but running the new wire is the deal breaker.
The water heater is in a small cabinet in the bathroom in the middle of the house. Too hard for me to run wire and no easier place to put it.
Crawl space, attic, basement? If so, then the new run will be easy.
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Old 03-10-2019, 07:46 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Don't waste your time on a tankless. Let alone an electric unit. As someone who builds & sells houses I'm not a fan. I've gone through all the name brands and the result has always been less then desirable.

One simple reason to not use a tankless, no hot water when the power's out.
I've also yet to see a real energy savings on my personal properties.

Just my 2 cents. Best of luck.
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Old 03-10-2019, 08:30 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Don't waste your time on a tankless. Let alone an electric unit. As someone who builds & sells houses I'm not a fan. I've gone through all the name brands and the result has always been less then desirable.

One simple reason to not use a tankless, no hot water when the power's out.
I've also yet to see a real energy savings on my personal properties.

Just my 2 cents. Best of luck.
I’ve have a Bosch on demand gas unit and I don’t love it.

I’ve looked at electrics I don’t think the electric savings is near what’s advertised.

Really a GOOD conventional unit just works
But it doesn’t seem like a popular opinion.
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Old 03-10-2019, 08:49 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Personally, electric on demand units don't make much sense. A gas/lp unit makes sense. Heats water faster and more economically.

Tankless units are for people who use very little hot water and don't want to pay to keep a tank hot, and people who use a bunch of hot water and don't want to run out.
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Old 03-11-2019, 06:43 AM   #10 (permalink)
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One simple reason to not use a tankless, no hot water when the power's out.
there is this thing called a whole house generator. Perhaps you have heard of it? works wonders when the power is out, like maggggiiic.
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Old 03-11-2019, 08:26 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Don't waste your time on a tankless. Let alone an electric unit. As someone who builds & sells houses I'm not a fan. I've gone through all the name brands and the result has always been less then desirable.

One simple reason to not use a tankless, no hot water when the power's out.
I've also yet to see a real energy savings on my personal properties.

Just my 2 cents. Best of luck.
Having hot water should be the last thing on someone's mind if the power is out and they don't have a backup generator.

We have a whole house tankless electric and it works great for us. I bought it when we had 3 of our 4 kids still at home and would run out of hot water every time we were getting ready to go somewhere. The only thing I would change is splitting it up into zones with 3 smaller units instead of one big one that takes 3- 40 amp circuits. I'd do one for the kitchen, one for the main bathroom, and one for everything else. We did see a savings on our electric bill when I switched over to tankless, but it's hard to quantify exactly how much it is due to our bill fluctuating quite a bit every month.
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Old 03-11-2019, 08:32 AM   #12 (permalink)
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there is this thing called a whole house generator. Perhaps you have heard of it? works wonders when the power is out, like maggggiiic.

So you're taking a fuel, (gas, diesel, propane, or natural gas), burning it to run an engine (with heat as a waste byproduct) to in turn heat up an electric element to warm water?

Genius.

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Old 03-11-2019, 09:25 AM   #13 (permalink)
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I am another one that says skip the tankless.

Had a gas one, sure never ran out of hot water, but it took 20 minutes for the hot water to get to the shower.
So how much water did I waste waiting for hot water?
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Old 03-11-2019, 09:39 AM   #14 (permalink)
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So you're taking a fuel, (gas, diesel, propane, or natural gas), burning it to run an engine (with heat as a waste byproduct) to in turn heat up an electric element to warm water?

Genius.

Anything I can do to counter the whole envro movement.
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Old 03-11-2019, 10:28 AM   #15 (permalink)
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No, bigger wire, and fuck electric heat anything.
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Old 03-11-2019, 10:29 AM   #16 (permalink)
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I am another one that says skip the tankless.

Had a gas one, sure never ran out of hot water, but it took 20 minutes for the hot water to get to the shower.
So how much water did I waste waiting for hot water?
Different problems.
If your hot pipe is nicely insulated, you have a pump circulating hot water so the moment you turn on the tap you only wait for the cold water that is in the faucet and under the sink to flow - then you have hot water. No more waiting.

If I had a setup where I would have to wait for hot water I'd burn the entire house to the ground.
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Old 03-11-2019, 10:46 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Different problems.
If your hot pipe is nicely insulated, you have a pump circulating hot water so the moment you turn on the tap you only wait for the cold water that is in the faucet and under the sink to flow - then you have hot water. No more waiting.

If I had a setup where I would have to wait for hot water I'd burn the entire house to the ground.
No, that is a common issue with early tankless water heaters. With the 'eco' shower heads, you don't produce enough flow through the tankless water heater to kick the burner to full burn and get hot enough water. Had a buddy with an early tankless and he would have to turn on the hot water at the bathroom sink to get hot enough water to take a hot shower.
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Old 03-11-2019, 11:14 AM   #18 (permalink)
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there is this thing called a whole house generator. Perhaps you have heard of it? works wonders when the power is out, like maggggiiic.
And a tankless will likely overload your gen if you are running all the other necessities. Tankless water heaters are energy hogs when they run.

A lot of Old houses only have 100 amp service and you’re putting 60 amps just on a water heater.
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Old 03-11-2019, 11:17 AM   #19 (permalink)
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OP, how much electrical service is your house?
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Old 03-11-2019, 12:20 PM   #20 (permalink)
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OP, how much electrical service is your house?
Main breaker is 150 and the house is all electric so no gas. House is in AZ where we only get cold water maybe 3 months out of the year. Right now it comes out of the tap at 65*f at our coldest time of year. So I think a tankless would be a perfect match for my purposes.
Crackerbox trac house on a slab, water comes through the attic down into the common wall between the kitchen and bath supplying both. So it is in the best location.
Another 40 gallon electric water heater is $450 on up and I was pleased to find the tankless ones for so cheap, under $400.
I will look around at the lower capacity tankless to see if I can find one that will not need a new wiring run.
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Old 03-11-2019, 12:24 PM   #21 (permalink)
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No, that is a common issue with early tankless water heaters. With the 'eco' shower heads, you don't produce enough flow through the tankless water heater to kick the burner to full burn and get hot enough water. Had a buddy with an early tankless and he would have to turn on the hot water at the bathroom sink to get hot enough water to take a hot shower.
That scenario was just on a recent this old house hour show. they had to replace the shower fixture to make it work.
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Old 03-11-2019, 12:39 PM   #22 (permalink)
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No, that is a common issue with early tankless water heaters. With the 'eco' shower heads, you don't produce enough flow through the tankless water heater to kick the burner to full burn and get hot enough water.
How early? I have a Bosch tankless NG that I installed in 2001 and I haven't had that issue with it. Hot water gets to the shower at the same time the old tank heater would with the same low flow head.

For the OP, How about a solar type water heater setup? If you only need to raise it 20 degrees or so that might be a way to supplement an electric heater turned down low
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Old 03-11-2019, 12:44 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I would choose a tank style electric to replace. Ideally the best insulated one you can find and one that allows you to choose the time of day it heats the water. Then you can heat at the lowest cost electrical times of day. Using electricity scheduled to coincide with low cost energy times is only going to become more and more economical in the future. I have gas for my own water heater - but if I suspect 10 years from now tank style electric will again by the industry standard and the lowest total cost to operate.
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Old 03-11-2019, 12:47 PM   #24 (permalink)
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How early? I have a Bosch tankless NG that I installed in 2001 and I haven't had that issue with it. Hot water gets to the shower at the same time the old tank heater would with the same low flow head.
2005/6 ish IIRC, don't remember what brand. On rural water and LPG. May have been an older model that had sat on the shelf for a while. After complaining about it numerous times, the manufacturer finally ran the serial number and then sent the updated flow valve. Put it in to fill the 2 person Jacuzzi tub and worked fine for that, just not the shower.
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Old 03-11-2019, 12:54 PM   #25 (permalink)
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.......

One simple reason to not use a tankless, no hot water when the power's out.
I've also yet to see a real energy savings on my personal properties.

........
When the power is out, taking a shower or washing dishes is probably last on my to do list....
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