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Old 06-12-2019, 12:07 PM   #51 (permalink)
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I believe people donít really love or care about you. Women love what men do for them. People are just replaceable figures in a persons life. Thatís my view upon experience

I agree with this, but except for your kids? It seems certain pair-bonds are this too, but I'd say, what, 25% at most? And that's only after 30 years. Who's to say that an actual, personalized relationship existed before then?

Evidence seems to great that multi-decade pair bonding = 'mating for life'.

So I think your kids, and some small proportion of romantic pair bonds are exceptions.

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Women love what men do for them.
Dead accurate. And I think that's the truest part of that whole 'red pill philosohpy'. Women invest 5 years in each successful kid. A kid grows in her body. That is a huge thing that men understand, but don't live with, no matter how much you love your kids. They're fundamentally different and have a different approach. They have to, it's biology.

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Just have to vent for a second...

My wheeling buddy from college was diagnosed with terminal brain cancer exactly one year ago today. He has four young daughter's including a one year old. We went to Moab in 2004 and it was the first time I had ever really been rock crawling. I caught the wheeling bug and started building my old CJ after that.

This poor guy has had brain surgery, SERIOUS rounds of chemo and radiation in the last year, has to wear an Optune head gear unit 24/7, and just found out his wife of 13 years has been cheating behind his back while sick with a friend of a friend (now former wheeling friend). The guy has been fighting for his life and trying to make the most of the time he has left with his wife and 4 daughters and this shit happens. There is no point to this thread other than to vent and say, karma is a fawking bitch! Her boyfriend is lucky he lives halfway across the country. My friend isn't allowed to lift anything heavier than 20 lbs due to being sick, so it's not like he can take the fight to the fuck stick. So pissed... beyond pissed...
Not your personal Army. I don't know the story and I won't get it for you.

You love your friend. Your job is to love and be loyal to your friend. I don't trust your information, and I wouldn't expect or even want you to do anything but hate and want to destroy anything that threatens your vulnerable friend.

I'm putting myself in the "people who have sick/dying spouses cheat" category. It's not 'right', it just is. I don't like it.

Go take care of your friend instead of seeking to work out your anxiety and grief on an easy revenge scheme. Take care.
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Old 06-12-2019, 12:13 PM   #52 (permalink)
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Fuck the whores mother. That'll teach her.

Or her father, if'n you're into that. Might mortify her more.
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Old 06-12-2019, 12:38 PM   #53 (permalink)
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That really blows. Not going to pass judgement on either of them though.

You never know what someone is going through.

She could be a whore, or he could have been an abusive husband behind closed doors. I dont know.

OP, don't let it get to you. Shit happens, life is hard, and it can always get worse. Let it all out and move on. If its not under your control there is nothing you can do about it. Be there for your buddy and enjoy what you can. Besides Karma is a fucking evil cunt. If its ment to be, she will get hers.

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Old 06-12-2019, 01:09 PM   #54 (permalink)
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and I guess here lies the issue...even though we all are proud fucks, and continuously say what we would do definitively in a variety of situations that we have never been in, we don't know for sure. Then to condemn others who are in those situations because they don't act in the manner that we subscribe to on our best days is par for the course. I do it as well.

I have been through what the OP is describing. It's easy to paint a picture in your head of what living with a terminal spouse would look like on your head. Ok, they are "sick". They live with you. Life moves along.

I would venture that I had about a good a marriage as you can get. My wife and I got along fabulously. Almost never fought. Honestly, I would say never but then it appears to be revisionist hyperbole so I will say "almost", even though its closer to never. Sex life was good. No real financial worries other than not having fantasy "things". Kids are healthy, good jobs, etc.

What I am saying is there was no foundation for infidelity in our marriage before she was diagnosed.

One day, after work while meeting her at the doctor on my way home, our lives changed 100%. Just like that. Things would never be the same. Not even close. A slow fade from having a wife and a best friend to a "patient" that you are the caretaker for. While this person looks like my wife (minus the massive weight changes, the 1/2" long hair, the moon face from the steroids and the lipoma benign tumors on her back and neck also from the steroids) mentally, that person was not my wife anymore.

I still fucking loved her more than myself though.

It sounds cold to say, but that person that the cancer ate up, was not my wife anymore.

My wife always knew our dogs names.....and that they were in fact dogs.
My wife always knew that when the water got to the top of the sink, you turn it off and not let it keep running and flood the ktchen.
My wife knew that when the kitchen was flooded, there are better ways to clean up the water than a broom and a dustpan.
My wife knew that.......well a lot of things that she frequently did were wrong and dangerous.

I could go on and on and on and on. List out the heartbreaking things that I saw, did. I won't though.

Over two years, you find yourself isolated. Everyone else around you, people that you consider your friends.....lifelong friends, family, etc. They move on. They have lives in which they do things, go places.....live. You get to see it on Facebook.....Every. Day.

You don't. You are tied at home because nausea is a real thing and a fucking bitch. Because fatigue is something in which I thought I knew about until cancer came knocking. Then I learned what fatigue and sickness really were. I learned a whole new vocabulary of body parts, drugs, side-effects, medical terms and procedures, etc.

Eventually, you are isolated. You may have work hours to be out and with people. but at home, its you and your spouse. When your spouse is for the most part bed-ridden 23 hours a day........its you.

Everyone's situation is different. They may have kids at home, more friends and family that still are involved. Whatever.

That will never displace the loss of the person that is your spouse and hopefully, your best friend. Even if that person lays in bed with you every night. They are not that person anymore.

Affection, love, joy, etc. are basic human needs. Some can go without them more than others. Some can't. Take away the ability of the person that you want to, and should, get those from, and people make choices.

No, I am not saying it OK. Not saying its OK just because a lot of people do it in this situation. It's wrong. It's a betrayal. Its heartbreaking.

Like many things that people do though, even though I chose not to do them, I can understand how people would is all that I am saying.

I would have been married for 25 years on May 19. I never cheated on my wife......never.

Even when I had gone a 1.5 years without even a meaningful kiss, or any real affection like that. Like I said above, chances were there. I almost took them. I am human and a man who gets horny. My wife would have never known, and in fact, my wife repeatedly gave me the go-ahead many times. She wanted me to be happy, and she knew(as did I) she had zero desire for sex nor did she even have the energy for it. Again, I never did.

To wrap up, I am not saying that its ok what the OP friend's wife did. Again, such a betrayal under perfect conditions. Add the factor of cancer, and it feels worse. A man so vulnerable and at the low of his confidence and self-worth.

What I am saying, is that with the percentages of people who seek comfort from others that are out there (depending on who you believe I guess) is that all those people are not horrible monsters of people. Life, and its terrible situations that it can throw at you, cause good people to do shitty things. Things that feel right in the moment. Or maybe they don't but you do them anyway because they are what you need.

Again, I didn't take that path and I am glad that I didn't. I can hold my head high, if only for myself.

Grief does strange things to a person. Grief has caused many a people to kill (themselves or others), stalk, rant, fight, lose massive amounts of weight, become depressed, and on and on.

It's not completely outside the realm to think that it can cause someone to seek their basic emotional and sexual needs in comparison. Especially, when that assumingly makes that person happy in the moment.


Again, I don't condone it any more than I would condone this man beating the hell out of his wife with a bat for her actions.

All that I am saying is that I understand both actions, even though both are deplorable.
This is one of the most insightful things I have ever read.

Thank you for writing it.
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Old 06-12-2019, 01:15 PM   #55 (permalink)
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This is one of the most insightful things I have ever read.

Thank you for writing it.
Yes, thank you for posting that as well as your other posts.
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Old 06-12-2019, 01:16 PM   #56 (permalink)
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A woman has needs too.
She just lookin' for the next suga-daddy for her tribe
It sucks but se la vie
I feel bad for your friend.
oh fuck off
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Old 06-12-2019, 02:00 PM   #57 (permalink)
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This is one of the most insightful things I have ever read.

Thank you for writing it.
x2 great post
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Old 06-12-2019, 02:07 PM   #58 (permalink)
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i will say this to the OP.

My wife had brain cancer. Multiple surgeries, shitty chemo, trial drugs. radiation. She was not the same person after all that. She didn't wear the Optune but almost. She didn't want to.

This was all over a two year period until she passed.

Cheating among spouses who are married to someone that has a debilitating illness is VERY common I have learned. I have read its at something like 80%. And now after talking to widows and widowers, I would guess its even higher.

While it sounds shitty, there were many times that I considered it. I was almost never out alone over two years so I did not have much of an opportunity, but they did arise.

I never did, and I am glad that I didn't looking back. But I can completely understand how someone could.

My point is, if you have never walked in those shoes, maybe mind your own fucking business.

I get the macho thing to do is call her a whore and all the cool things that guys do, but maybe realize that her life ended as she knew it a long time ago as well.


I've thankfully never been in that position, but I can see both sides. It's a shitty thing to do to him in one way, but also a shitty deal for her also. I'd like to say I'd take the high road, but really who knows in that situation.
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Old 06-12-2019, 02:27 PM   #59 (permalink)
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Not to be evil, but she can wait until the body is cold.
My guess is she has been cheating on him before he got sick, and is why she had little issue doing it on him at this stage of his fight.
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Old 06-12-2019, 02:29 PM   #60 (permalink)
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How weird. I was seriously just contemplating something similar 5 minutes ago. I'm very high risk for cancer. Between my lack of PPE, the general dangers of metal and chemicals I've been in contact with in high doses and my lineage point to the strong possibility that I'll die of cancer. I have a number of skin spots that popped up recently that I need biopsies done on. The idea scares the fuck out of me.

... my thoughts moments ago are if I find out I have cancer, what do I do. My initial thought was to run AWAY from my wife. I do not know that I'd fight it. Something about a slow decline into nothingness makes me want to save her from me. She's still young, beautiful, and more importantly a high value woman. I'd want her to try to move on sooner rather than later. If I knew I was destroyed or compromised like that, I'd have a really hard time sticking around for everyone to watch me wilt away into someone I'm not. I'd rather be gone completely, with their last memories being good and my illness not be the massive burden I know it can become.

Long rambling thoughts.

Sorry about your friend, OP. I usually don't say anything in these threads because they scare the crap out of me. But I feel so much worse for your friend's wife and the horrible feelings/situation she must be dealing with. I don't have judgment to pass on her. The things she's going through are literally my worst nightmare.

Tough call. I suspect your wife would resent you for the rest of her life for not thinking she could handle it and not being able to say goodbye. How would you feel if the shoe were on the other foot and she had terminal cancer? Would you feel somehow she spared you by leaving? It feels a little selfish.
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Old 06-12-2019, 02:32 PM   #61 (permalink)
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Tough call. I suspect your wife would resent you for the rest of her life for not thinking she could handle it and not being able to say goodbye. How would you feel if the shoe were on the other foot and she had terminal cancer? Would you feel somehow she spared you by leaving? It feels a little selfish.
I see that side too. I don't really know. I don't want find out either. I have a lot of sympathy for anyone facing this kind of thing.
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Old 06-12-2019, 02:41 PM   #62 (permalink)
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My guess is she has been cheating on him before he got sick, and is why she had little issue doing it on him at this stage of his fight.
I think this is bullshit.

I mean maybe, I don't know these people, but circumstance such as this puts people in a position nobody is prepared for, and people will do things that would normally be out of character.

And just in case nobody tells you, You kinda come off like a sanctimonious cunt. And bit naive regarding the emotional rollercoaster, the stress, and the comfort from someone.
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Old 06-12-2019, 02:42 PM   #63 (permalink)
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People often mistake sex for intimacy and love. It's how some are programmed.
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Old 06-12-2019, 04:29 PM   #64 (permalink)
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I think this is bullshit.

I mean maybe, I don't know these people, but circumstance such as this puts people in a position nobody is prepared for, and people will do things that would normally be out of character.

And just in case nobody tells you, You kinda come off like a sanctimonious cunt. And bit naive regarding the emotional rollercoaster, the stress, and the comfort from someone.
Did I call her a cunt or a whore? No, all I did was make an assessment of the facts that she got caught cheating on her dying spouse. Had it just been one time, with some random dude, it would be excusable abnormal act given the circumstances, but she did it enough to get caught and with someone they both knew, which means it wasn't outside her normal behavior to do so.

I am also well aware of the emotional shit storm one goes through when dealing with a loved one who is terminal, and how anything that can give you a break from reality is beneficial to ones emotional state, however, I am also well aware of how guilty you feel for taking that break, when your loved one can't.
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Old 06-12-2019, 04:42 PM   #65 (permalink)
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all I did was make an assessment of the facts that she got caught cheating on her dying spouse.

Had it just been one time, with some random dude, it would be excusable abnormal act given the circumstances, but she did it enough to get caught and with someone they both knew,
Nah, you jumped to an assumption based on an assessment of one person's version of a story told second hand.

The fact is, she got caught, and it was with someone close. That leads me to believe it wasn't something she had done before or was good at hiding. It also makes me think she did it because that person was someone she felt comfortable with in her time of need and not just a random person from work, the bar, gym, etc.

Just playing devil's advocate here. But when I read your post, I thought "well that's a leap" as I scrolled past. PBB is good about coming up with assumptions, so you're par for the course.
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Old 06-12-2019, 04:44 PM   #66 (permalink)
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This is one of the most insightful things I have ever read.

Thank you for writing it.
I agree.
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Old 06-12-2019, 04:56 PM   #67 (permalink)
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People often mistake sex for intimacy and love. It's how some are programmed.
and id say some are programmed that you cant have one without the other
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Old 06-12-2019, 05:12 PM   #68 (permalink)
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Cheating among spouses who are married to someone that has a debilitating illness is VERY common I have learned. I have read its at something like 80%. And now after talking to widows and widowers, I would guess its even higher.

mi.
I think thatís crazy but after reading Iíd guess they look for some kind of break from reality/find someone thatís going thru the same and build a relationship with them that leads to more.
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Old 06-12-2019, 05:14 PM   #69 (permalink)
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No some people confused love for lust. Like a 17 year old kid.

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Old 06-12-2019, 05:18 PM   #70 (permalink)
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Nah, you jumped to an assumption based on an assessment of one person's version of a story told second hand.

The fact is, she got caught, and it was with someone close. That leads me to believe it wasn't something she had done before or was good at hiding. It also makes me think she did it because that person was someone she felt comfortable with in her time of need and not just a random person from work, the bar, gym, etc.

Just playing devil's advocate here. But when I read your post, I thought "well that's a leap" as I scrolled past. PBB is good about coming up with assumptions, so you're par for the course.
No more a leap than believing that this was a one time thing due to the stress of having to deal with her husband's cancer.

I guess it all depends on one's overall view of humanity, i.e., humans are generally good with a natural moral compass, or just animals who only control their actions due to societal/legal expectations of behavior.
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Old 06-12-2019, 05:32 PM   #71 (permalink)
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No more a leap than believing that this was a one time thing due to the stress of having to deal with her husband's cancer.

I guess it all depends on one's overall view of humanity, i.e., humans are generally good with a natural moral compass, or just animals who only control their actions due to societal/legal expectations of behavior.
You make a good point there. My belief is that we're animals. I think we have a pretty unknown amount of historical memory passed on. Watching how horses just know how to do things like they remember. It's also very interesting to watch how animals act while breeding. Then there's my beliefs about ancient traditions revolving around religion and culture. ...Anyway, it leads me to think biologically we're predestined to seek out multiple partners and it's monogamy that makes calm citizens who can conduct business without rampant warring. I don't think a healthy society is possible without monogamy. So within the constraints of our current reality in time it's immoral. But in the expanse of time it's very natural.

I tend to think it's the self awarene individual, the ones who believes in integrity who stays faithful. But I also think humans are animals first and formost; advanced for only a very short period of time.

So yeah, man I think you're right. It's all about perspectives. That's honestly why I like to talk to you guys.
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Old 06-12-2019, 05:34 PM   #72 (permalink)
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No more a leap than believing that this was a one time thing due to the stress of having to deal with her husband's cancer.



I guess it all depends on one's overall view of humanity, i.e., humans are generally good with a natural moral compass, or just animals who only control their actions due to societal/legal expectations of behavior.
I disagree, humans are naturally good because spociety has set a standard for what is morally and socially acceptable.

Look at what civilizations have done throughout history. Everything we think is good or bad is because of a standard that has been set.

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Old 06-12-2019, 07:05 PM   #73 (permalink)
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oh fuck off
Can't handle the truth?
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Old 06-12-2019, 09:33 PM   #74 (permalink)
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Can't handle the truth?
GFYS

Not the time. Unless you enjoy being a piece of cawk sucking gaping asshole shit

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Old 06-12-2019, 09:51 PM   #75 (permalink)
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First thing I will say is this... His wife took on a HUGE task of driving my buddy to doctor's, treatments, medical, etc because he was not cleared to drive for quite a while. Along with that came keeping the house extremely clean and germ free to fight infections while on chemo. Also, taking care of 4 young girls (one was a newborn), gymnastics, school, etc. And, also taking over some extra responsibilities with their business. I know it was a LOT. No doubt. And, everyone gave her major kudos and respect for doing what she did.

If she resented him for all that stress, I understand...completely. If she wanted a break from her daily reality, I understand. If she wanted the touch of someone that could be intimate, I get it. But if you want to act on those feelings, then sack up, and tell your spouse BEFORE you act. You know why almost no one ever does it that way? Because, looking your spouse in the eye and being honest is like looking in the mirror and telling yourself that you are less than what you thought you were. It takes a strong person to be honest and upfront. It's the cowards way to just act, and try to hide it. It's the easy way out. Honestly, it might actually be like suicide by cop. I mean, how do you look your terminally ill husband, father of your children, in the face and say your can't do it anymore and you want out? If you cheat and get caught, and he gives you the boot, then technically you weren't the one to break it off. This might be a possibility actually.

To the guy that mentioned what your wife went through and the struggles, I understand, and serious kudos and respect to you. Seriously.

It's not about how we act when things are easy in life/relationships...it's how we act when things get tough that define us. This WILL define her life. It will affect how her daughter's perceive her. IE, Dad was dying and fighting for every extra day to be with us, and this is what Mom did... Note, I'm not calling her names and all that. I know it's a tough situation. Beyond tough. I'm just saying, I think it's probably tougher on the personal literally contemplating death everyday, and also dealing with all the other stuff too. He's not bedridden, he's always been very active and basically gets around okay (late 30s).

As for doxing the guy, out of respect for my buddy, I will not interfere in any way. No names, address, pics, etc. As for pics, same thing, but I will say she is pretty good looking.

A little more backstory. My buddy wheels with a group of folks where he lives in the midwest. One of those guys is a 21/22 yr old spoiled college kid. We'll call him douche bag. At spring break, my good buddy reached out to me and said hey I have a friend (douche bag) heading to Western CO for a week and is looking for some info on trails,etc. I said, hell yeah. Give him my number and I'll help anyway I can. We never were able to catch up for a beer (timing did work for either of us), but I pointed him in the right direction for trails. This comes and goes no big deal.

Last night, I hear my buddy and his wife are getting divorce. I let him know that I'm really sorry to hear this. He says, crazy thing is that she came with douche bag and his friend (let's call him home wrecker) to CO on that trip, but told him she was in Kansas City. He only found out because she came back from "Kansas City" on crutches with a blown bum knee. Says she hurt her knee running while out of town in KC. Couple weeks later, medical bill/statement comes in showing clinic/doctor was in Telluride, CO and she blew out her ACL/MCL. Douche bag and his fiance went skiing while on spring break wheeling trip. Apparently, so did wife and home wrecker.

She still doesn't confess to anything. So, my buddy knows which guys were on this spring break trip. One one of them is single. Researches the guy, finds address. Wife is supposed to be at a doctor's appt one day when my buddy rolls up to home wrecker's house and snaps pics of her car there. Now she's busted.

He says, "The messed up thing is that I've been trying to get her to ski with me in CO for 13 years and she never wanted to." Sad...

Cliffs: She cheated with a dumb fuck college kid, who probably feels entitled to everything, has no idea what it's like to be a man, and will not be there for her when she actually needs someone.

As for minding my own business... I am. Friend told me. I didn't pry. And, it was 1 AM and I was kinda overwhelmed with this news and felt so bad for my friend. Just needed to vent. The innocent and guilty will remain anonymous.

Edit: For the record, I kinda doubt she did this in the past. They are kinda bible thumpers. I think stress pushed her too far. But, we are adults and we need to think through consequences of our actions. This has very large consequences for her and her family.

Last edited by charlieboyd65; 06-12-2019 at 09:53 PM.
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