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Old 06-12-2019, 11:59 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by bggrnchvy View Post
Hiring and even retaining suddenly. I've hired almost dozen welders over the last 6 years here and this is the toughest and slimmest pickings by far.

Everybody is moving out of state because they can get slightly lower wages and half the cost of living. Welder/fitter who has been here 5 years just 2 week noticed yesterday to join a pipefitter union outside of Boise. I asked if there was anything we could to make him reconsider and he flat said even for $10/hr more he would still be leaving.

I've had a vacant more senior welder/fitter position open since February (guy moved to Reno). I've had 40 resumes and half dozen interviews for. Even offered a guy the position, fake SSN on background check. This is a $35-40/hr position, you think we're not going to see if you are who you say you are?

I'm fine with training a guy, but if you come here only knowing how to run a tig torch flat on a bench on carbon steel plate and not able to fit a pipe, I'm not paying you $30+/hr until you can produce something of value for us.

At this point I'm trying to get a student from the local CC welding program who is ok with starting at $20-25/hr, then getting bumped at 90 days if he's proficient in purge fusion welding A270 and can burn together 304ss box tube frames plumb/square with no carbide precipitation.
Iíve apparently missed your job postings
Shop I work at needs fitters and GOOD welders too. Hell of a fine finding anyone that can pass a weld test
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Old 06-13-2019, 12:14 AM   #52 (permalink)
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this is exactly why i dont give a fawk about shopping at walmart etc vs the local place, the wealthy small business owner is no less or more greedy and selfish than the giant corporations.

i see it all the time, everyday blue collar workers struggling to get by while the business owner is wondering what cool toy hes gonna buy next paying his employees that do the real work bare minimum


on the flip side i see employees all the time bragging about how little they do at work and how much they get paid to do shit, people all around pretty much suck these days.

Yeah man everybody sucks.

What's your name again?
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Old 06-13-2019, 02:36 AM   #53 (permalink)
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My friends all own automotive shops around here and were running into the same problems. Several of them were about to close up shop because they couldnt ger help. Then they started upping the pay and problem solved. They are paying thier top mechanics $35-40/ hr book time and just raised thier hourly rates to cover it.



Average costco employee in your area makes $21/hr plus bennifits according to glassdoor.com



Pay me more then I make out here and I'll move and be the best employee you have
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Old 06-13-2019, 04:37 AM   #54 (permalink)
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Record profits and still can't afford to pay a decent wage. Know what that tells me? Our great economy is actually a stagnating economy that only looks great because inflation is moving fast than we register.
Read between the lines, man. They absolutely can afford to pay a decent wage but donít want to.
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Old 06-13-2019, 05:58 AM   #55 (permalink)
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We canít hire someone with refrigeration experience willing to travel for 80k a year, with no record.

Everyone we get that is willing to work fails the background check.
So cull competent and probably loyal employees because . . . ?
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Old 06-13-2019, 06:11 AM   #56 (permalink)
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So I keep seeing failing the background check. What are you guys willing to pass off on with it. When I see that, I see "Well he wasn't knighted so we won't hire him." Some of the best people I know are dirt bags who barely pass a background check.
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Old 06-13-2019, 06:34 AM   #57 (permalink)
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Office is in Golden basically. Denver West office park on I-70 just before you get into the mountains.
lmao

ive looked into moving to CO and $40k cant even rent a place out by yourself. Let alone BUY a house.
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Old 06-13-2019, 06:48 AM   #58 (permalink)
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Iím on a team that has had 2-4 open positions for the past year+. Mid-senior level GIS positions that will pay well for the area.

Part of the reason is big company HR has the position labeled something obscure. Unless someone is reading the fine print Iím betting most skim past it.
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Old 06-13-2019, 06:53 AM   #59 (permalink)
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The actual hiring process is garbage. Job search sites, resume builders, head hunters, key word programs, etc...
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Old 06-13-2019, 08:23 AM   #60 (permalink)
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i worked as a millwright for years. we were doing a line install at the keebler factory, and the one contractor was bitching to my boss about keeping good help. my boss flat out tells him "thats easy, pay them more than every one else".
we used to be one of the highest paid places in the metroplex. now we have guys turn the job down because we don't make enough anymore. had two guy turn down positions last month,at top money.
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Old 06-13-2019, 08:37 AM   #61 (permalink)
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For reference, my very recent former employer (heavy civil contractor) was at the point of making offers to college sophomores for full time field engineer positions when they graduated. Pretty much guaranteed fully paid internships too. Starting pay full time was in the 60's last I heard. Most civil/mechanical/construction majors have 4 or 5 offers to choose from at graduation.
The infrastructure mechanical/construction industry is a shit show right now. Anything related to building Mechanical, electrical and plumbing is absolutely dying for people to work.

From someone from the inside, i think its because the colleges dont teach engineers anything related to the construction industry? I think i had one week in a thermodynamics class about the refrigeration cycle. Shocking thats all i do now. And companies are paying top dollar for anyone, degree or not, who has experience in MEP to move in fill the void.

My employer now and the last two before them just cannot hire anyone to fill their positions. They are either people fresh out of college who just absolutely have zero understanding of buildings and the learning curve to just too steep. Or they are a dinosaur on their first or second retirement looking to stay busy.

Its insane right now in anything HVAC, MEP, Controls, Building Energy or construction.
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Old 06-13-2019, 08:40 AM   #62 (permalink)
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Nope, I'd say that's pretty good even for Colorado.

My first job out of school (Mech. Eng. Major, Biomed Eng. Minor from CSU), paid me $19 an hour (PCB contract manufacturer in Longmont).

I left that place after a couple months to go to a company I was with for a while, where I nearly doubled my hourly pay.

So yeah, $40k with good benefits...surprised more haven't jumped on it.

But then again, it seems that younger people still expect to make $60k for showing up
Wait a second...you were being paid about $37K a year out of college and a few months later you left for double and you can't understand why people aren't jumping on it? You're exactly what he is dealing with...kids who can find better pay elsewhere.
Obviously $19/hr, almost what is being offered now, wasn't enough to keep you around more than a few months with your Mechanical Engineering degree. Imagine how much less money it is compared to when you made it for a few months.
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Old 06-13-2019, 09:03 AM   #63 (permalink)
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I think I saw a sign the other day at Good Times that they were hiring at $14 an hour. Costco I think is at $16 maybe. I canít imagine that potential for growth there is much either. If they stay for a while at this position, they will be able to leave and land a job at a glass shop doing estimating and make $60K+. If they stay a little longer and I can get to the point of teaching the CNC machines they could make quite a bit more. My buddy that trained and I took over his position was offered a Job with an Italian CNC manufacturer and they were going to move him to Italy.
Costco is international. The potential for growth is HUGE. They were named the best company to work for in 2017. If you're trying to compete against Costco you're going to lose. Costco offers bonuses every six months too. Buddy moved from Reno to Texas and back with Costco. Another friend said it's damn near impossible to get into some Costco locations because the employees have been there 20+ years and the turnover is practically 1% or less.

https://www.payscale.com/research/US..._Company/Bonus
Costco Wholesale Company pays an average of $4,035 in annual employee bonuses. Bonus pay at Costco Wholesale Company ranges from $1,000 to $21,000 annually among employees who report receiving a bonus. Employees with the title General / Operations Manager earn the highest bonuses with an average annual bonus of $21,000. Employees with the title Certified Pharmacy Technician (CPHT) earn the lowest bonuses with an average annual bonus of $1,000.

https://www.sacbee.com/news/business...231487568.html
Raleys is a better company to work for than CalTrans which should tell you about how good Raleys is to work for.

New study lists top companies to work for in WA | Columbia Basin | ifiberone.com
In Washington it's also a top employer.

So yeah....$16/hr to work at Costco is more appealing than having a degree and working for $40K. Pretty sure Costco even gives employees the business membership so they get 2% back on their purchases.
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Old 06-13-2019, 09:10 AM   #64 (permalink)
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Record profits and still can't afford to pay a decent wage. Know what that tells me? Our great economy is actually a stagnating economy that only looks great because inflation is moving fast than we register.
There is a difference between "can't afford" and "won't pay" as I had to explain to a friend of mine. He said he "can't afford" a new truck because they asked for more than $20K down payment. He spent $6,000 on floors and a trip to Hawaii, diamond rings for him and his new bride, and another trip to Central America in October. I pointed to how he can afford all those things but not an additional $10,000 down payment on a truck he "can't afford" and he never replied.

The boss "won't pay" more because he "can't afford" to cut his own spending.
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Old 06-13-2019, 09:14 AM   #65 (permalink)
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Even full time government construction job positions has a lot of vacancies right now. We talking all benefits and retirement after just 6 months of employment.

The local NCDOT in Durham said the hell with it and just combined 2 major offices into one this year and working with what they got. Last I heard they had like 8 positions available just before they combined. Everybody now is being trained to just step up a position or three and just let the workload stack up. A work order for a road widening is up to 8 months back log after the plans are approved. That's like putting entire subdivisions back about a year. Talk about some angry developers right now! That equates into the millions of dollars lost due to time. All DOT upgrades have to be complete and approved before any residential CO is applied for in a subdivision. And about every new subdivision has some sort of initial DOT improvement to do.

My brother-in-law that does finish carpentry up-ed his charges this summer and still working 60+ hours.

It's gang busters this year...
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Old 06-13-2019, 09:22 AM   #66 (permalink)
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Iíve apparently missed your job postings
Shop I work at needs fitters and GOOD welders too. Hell of a fine finding anyone that can pass a weld test
If you want the brief, PM me and I'll send it and my email so you can forward a resume if it's something you're interested in. Still looking.

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So I keep seeing failing the background check. What are you guys willing to pass off on with it. When I see that, I see "Well he wasn't knighted so we won't hire him." Some of the best people I know are dirt bags who barely pass a background check.


My highlights on employment/background checks:
-Are actually eligible to work in the US?
-Do you have any violent felonies in the last 10 years? Closer to 10, we can talk, closer to 1 year, pass.
-Don't pop for meth, coke or heroin on the drug test.

There's plenty of leeway there to be a dirt bag and still get hired.
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Old 06-13-2019, 09:35 AM   #67 (permalink)
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Office is in Golden basically. Denver West office park on I-70 just before you get into the mountains.
Here's your issue:

FMR for a single bed/single bath in Jefferson CO is on average

AVG FMR: $1,166
Income required to keep rent @ 30% of income: $3,885.00
Hourly wage: $24.28
Yearly Salary: $50,505.00

You're underpaying by 10K on average yearly. You're not paying enough. Do your benefits offset the 20% difference?
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Old 06-13-2019, 09:43 AM   #68 (permalink)
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There is a difference between "can't afford" and "won't pay" as I had to explain to a friend of mine. He said he "can't afford" a new truck because they asked for more than $20K down payment. He spent $6,000 on floors and a trip to Hawaii, diamond rings for him and his new bride, and another trip to Central America in October. I pointed to how he can afford all those things but not an additional $10,000 down payment on a truck he "can't afford" and he never replied.

The boss "won't pay" more because he "can't afford" to cut his own spending.
Look, man. That's going to be part of the deal. Bossman took all the risk. Bossman put up the capital and went out on his own and started something. Bossman carries the burden of liability for the company and has the highest stress load in the company. Or at one point he did, and is now in the reward phase of his journey.

Now are there bad bosses? Guys who not only delegate but take it a step further by not carrying the weight fairly or worse yet, slave driving instead of leading by example? A good bossman is a leader, for sure. Don't work for those people who fail at leading. It's obvious that there are jobs everywhere. Good jobs with good companies doing fulfilling work.

In closing: you sound like a whiny liberal. "Boss makes all the money but he's greedy, whaaaahhhhhh".

So back to my original response
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Never could find any good employees that didn't deserve a cut of the business or weren't competent enough to be running their own show. Which is how it should be.
Go start your own business if working for greedy bosses is so bad.
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Old 06-13-2019, 09:54 AM   #69 (permalink)
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The actual hiring process is garbage. Job search sites, resume builders, head hunters, key word programs, etc...
This is 100% true. And companies not even knowing what they really need. I am a construction manager with an emphasis on electrical. Every position that people forward me wants an engineering degree with it and mine is just a construction management degree. Even in the interviews I have been flat out told they want someone with my back ground but with an engineering degree. Those two options seldom go together.
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Old 06-13-2019, 10:06 AM   #70 (permalink)
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Look, man. That's going to be part of the deal. Bossman took all the risk. Bossman put up the capital and went out on his own and started something. Bossman carries the burden of liability for the company and has the highest stress load in the company. Or at one point he did, and is now in the reward phase of his journey.

Now are there bad bosses? Guys who not only delegate but take it a step further by not carrying the weight fairly or worse yet, slave driving instead of leading by example? A good bossman is a leader, for sure. Don't work for those people who fail at leading. It's obvious that there are jobs everywhere. Good jobs with good companies doing fulfilling work.

In closing: you sound like a whiny liberal. "Boss makes all the money but he's greedy, whaaaahhhhhh".

So back to my original response

Go start your own business if working for greedy bosses is so bad.
Wait...your original response was "record profits but can't afford..." along with how it's a stagnant economy. Now I'm a whiny liberal who needs to start his own business. I just said there is a difference between can't afford and won't pay. You said they couldn't afford it. My point was they CAN but won't pay it because it would require cuts on their end. It sounds like you're okay with the boss paying lower wages if they are a leader because they started the company.
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Old 06-13-2019, 10:09 AM   #71 (permalink)
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Here's your issue:

FMR for a single bed/single bath in Jefferson CO is on average

AVG FMR: $1,166
Income required to keep rent @ 30% of income: $3,885.00
Hourly wage: $24.28
Yearly Salary: $50,505.00

You're underpaying by 10K on average yearly. You're not paying enough. Do your benefits offset the 20% difference?
This is what I'm looking for. I can pass that onto my GM since he is the one deciding what these people will get paid.

I do need to clarify that we have never posted the salary with the job postings. (I for one think we should post the range of $40K to $65K upon experience.) Anyone that has received an offer only hears what we are willing to pay after the interview and upon official offer. We had one guy so far that we offered the job to that turned it down, and I think that was around $65K and he had years of experience working in a glass shop, just none with our software. We were definitely lower than what he was used to making though. Another that turned it down was a drafter that thought he could still work in AutoCAD drawing lines, since we interface with it, but do very little in this position with CAD. I may have been a little confusing on my original post. Mostly just confused that I'm either getting a couple that have absolutely no experience in anything somewhat related to the field or Engineers and Architects. (It's probably the job description in all reality.)

That $40K that I threw out there was mostly an example of what I think someone with ZERO experience and little working history would be offered.

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Old 06-13-2019, 10:12 AM   #72 (permalink)
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Wait...your original response was "record profits but can't afford..." along with how it's a stagnant economy. Now I'm a whiny liberal who needs to start his own business. I just said there is a difference between can't afford and won't pay. You said they couldn't afford it. My point was they CAN but won't pay it because it would require cuts on their end. It sounds like you're okay with the boss paying lower wages if they are a leader because they started the company.
I typically just insult Actionfap and move on... many of us do.

OR, alternatively, watching him flip flop like a fish is fun too.

Your call.
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Old 06-13-2019, 10:28 AM   #73 (permalink)
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Wait...your original response was "record profits but can't afford..." along with how it's a stagnant economy. Now I'm a whiny liberal who needs to start his own business. I just said there is a difference between can't afford and won't pay. You said they couldn't afford it. My point was they CAN but won't pay it because it would require cuts on their end. It sounds like you're okay with the boss paying lower wages if they are a leader because they started the company.
Okay let's break this down and unpack some of it.

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Record profits and still can't afford to pay a decent wage. Know what that tells me? Our great economy is actually a stagnating economy that only looks great because inflation is moving fast than we register.
Yes, if a company has record profits, (not record just gross income) there should be money in the bank for bonuses or higher wages. However, if growth is a goal for the company, this might be where those record profits are spent. Or perhaps record profits required loans or capital allocated that is best repaid early rather than repaid at a slower pace. Keep a lean overhead might also be a factor in this equation. Any money the company promises you, is money it will be forever obligated to as long as you're a participant. That company has taken you on as a dependent and has guaranteed you and your family its means. There could be any number of situations at hand. What can be afforded now might not be afforded later. Taking money off the table is a quick way to lose good employees.

Overall, it points to an employee who requires more income than the company has allocated and that leads me to believe an imbalance is at play. Housing costs, food costs, insurance premiums, car budgets, vacation expenses, entertainment costs, school spending, debt loads. They have all gone through the roof over the past four decades. It's gotten pretty ridiculous in the past decade, since the financial collapse. It definitely plays a factor.

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Maybe the problem is people don't know how to live within their means? I can't believe what some people are willing to allot for things like car payments and financing tools and such. It's crazy how many little payments, that add up to a lot of money, people have.

Is the dollar worthless or do people just "require" too much money because transportation, technology and housing costs have become such a large part of their budget?
Which brought me to this post.

And then you followed up saying it was just greedy bosses. What I'm saying is: if it's so great being the boss, and having all the money that comes with the title: go achieve said title. If you can't do that, then respect the sacrifices and hurdles the boss overcame to become the holder of the title.

It's not a case of me being okay with the boss paying lower wages. What I'm okay with is the boss making a high wage than he pays to the people he's delegated responsibility to. Which goes back to the first thing I said, which is that more people should be starting small companies and not going to work for medium sized or large sized companies.

I wrote in another recent thread that conglomeration is what's really killing the American dream. Where there is now 1 company with 1 bossman and 12 managers and 50 employees. There could very easily be 13 bossman, with 4 employees each. You'd see a completely different pay scale under those conditions.
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Old 06-13-2019, 10:29 AM   #74 (permalink)
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many employees also need to step up and ask for more money. hell 30 years ago we charged 35 dollars and hour, i got 16.50. now many shops charge 100 to 150 an hour for trade work. and they think 28 is big money.
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Old 06-13-2019, 10:34 AM   #75 (permalink)
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Okay let's break this down and unpack some of it.



Yes, if a company has record profits, (not record just gross income) there should be money in the bank for bonuses or higher wages. However, if growth is a goal for the company, this might be where those record profits are spent. Or perhaps record profits required loans or capital allocated that is best repaid early rather than repaid at a slower pace. Keep a lean overhead might also be a factor in this equation. Any money the company promises you, is money it will be forever obligated to as long as you're a participant. That company has taken you on as a dependent and has guaranteed you and your family its means. There could be any number of situations at hand. What can be afforded now might not be afforded later. Taking money off the table is a quick way to lose good employees.

Overall, it points to an employee who requires more income than the company has allocated and that leads me to believe an imbalance is at play. Housing costs, food costs, insurance premiums, car budgets, vacation expenses, entertainment costs, school spending, debt loads. They have all gone through the roof over the past four decades. It's gotten pretty ridiculous in the past decade, since the financial collapse. It definitely plays a factor.



Which brought me to this post.

And then you followed up saying it was just greedy bosses. What I'm saying is: if it's so great being the boss, and having all the money that comes with the title: go achieve said title. If you can't do that, then respect the sacrifices and hurdles the boss overcame to become the holder of the title.

It's not a case of me being okay with the boss paying lower wages. What I'm okay with is the boss making a high wage than he pays to the people he's delegated responsibility to. Which goes back to the first thing I said, which is that more people should be starting small companies and not going to work for medium sized or large sized companies.

I wrote in another recent thread that conglomeration is what's really killing the American dream. Where there is now 1 company with 1 bossman and 12 managers and 50 employees. There could very easily be 13 bossman, with 4 employees each. You'd see a completely different pay scale under those conditions.
flippity floppityÖ

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