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Old 06-18-2019, 10:06 PM   #51 (permalink)
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The biggest issue is ethonal is hydroscopic and attracts water. When the ethonal and water bond it falls out of the gas (phase separation) and you get this awesome ethonal water mix at the bottom and shit gas at the top. Seeing as how boats have an open vent system it will actually pull humidity out of the air.

The best thing is to use non-ethonal gas if available and keep it fresh.

Tu pudding be surprised how many people use less then a tank a year and wonder why there fuel system is fucked
I wish we had easy access to non E gas but we have a 240 gallon tank and trying to fill that with 5 gallon cans is just not feasible. We would have to run it to dry and fill a few gallons in at the end of the season. There are only a few gas stations in Nj that sell it.
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Old 06-19-2019, 03:44 AM   #52 (permalink)
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I'm getting ready to install a $20k+ steering setup on a twin outboard engine boat..... just the steering system. Think about that for a second.

I am curious what a 20k steering includes... I have installed a few hydraulic systems that were 1-3K...



Also... How much after the pirate discount? i think one (or two) of these on a Talon22 would be pretty sweet...





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And, because boat.

Bicycle < scooter < motorcycle < car < boat < airplane

Somewhere in there is a helicopter, but fuck that crazy Canuckistani Cochese.
Helicopter is defiantly after plane...
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Old 06-19-2019, 03:57 AM   #53 (permalink)
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Old 06-19-2019, 04:11 AM   #54 (permalink)
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I am curious what a 20k steering includes... I have installed a few hydraulic systems that were 1-3K...



Also... How much after the pirate discount? i think one (or two) of these on a Talon22 would be pretty sweet...







Helicopter is defiantly after plane...
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Old 06-19-2019, 05:12 AM   #55 (permalink)
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I wish we had easy access to non E gas but we have a 240 gallon tank and trying to fill that with 5 gallon cans is just not feasible. We would have to run it to dry and fill a few gallons in at the end of the season. There are only a few gas stations in Nj that sell it.
Holy shit I just checked puregas.org and there only 11 stations in The entire state of NJ selling e-free and those 11 look like racing/ aviation octanes. The fact that marinas aren't selling it either at the shore or on lakes is suspect- there must be some state regulation along with the you can't pump your own gas one that prevent e-free from being sold.

It's 900 stations and growing down here; I feed all my boats, & small engine equipment e-free, and can even price shop multiple sources for it when filling the boat.
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Old 06-19-2019, 06:08 AM   #56 (permalink)
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Not in the same category for HP, but where does the Evinrude 2-stroke E-Tecs fall in the brand comparisons? Lots of people seem to be pimping them for their efficiency, maintenance, and power. Yet most companies are still in the Yamaha business (thinking saltwater center-consoles).
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Old 06-19-2019, 06:42 AM   #57 (permalink)
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100% honesty I burn e10 all summer. But I'll use a couple hundred gallons a month and it dosen't have to do it's stupid ethonal gas thing. Come fall I switch to non-e for my last 3 tanks or so
Same. A tank doesn't last me more than about 2 weeks in the summer.


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And, because boat.

Bicycle < scooter < motorcycle < car < boat < airplane

Somewhere in there is a helicopter, but fuck that crazy Canuckistani Cochese.
Helicopter to the far right. Put bicycle ahead of scooter and maybe motorcycle . I raced some guys last week with hardtail mountain bikes that spec out around $12k.
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Old 06-19-2019, 06:48 AM   #58 (permalink)
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Yikes... and I was complaining about having to replace my old Johnson 40 with a Yamaha 70.
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Old 06-19-2019, 08:07 AM   #59 (permalink)
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Mean ass motor right there!
Yep, these twin cylinders are the basis of many racing outboards. People still wonder why I keep this old 2 smoke instead of getting a 4 stroke. I love how I can bear hug the thing and lift it off the stand and onto the transom. Try doing that with a 25-30hp 4 stroke.
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Old 06-19-2019, 08:36 AM   #60 (permalink)
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Geez, thirty cents a gallon seems pretty cheap to avoid at least some problems.
You say that, but then you look at how much of it you're burning in just one ski outing or heading to a distant fishing spot. If you are merely an occasional user, it does make sense. Higher octane fuel isn't cheap, and if you buy on the water, it's way more than filling up on the way to the boat ramp. Back when I used to go boating with friends a lot I felt like it was always at least a dollar more a gallon at the dock.

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For what most people burn a year it's a hell of a deal.

100% honesty I burn e10 all summer. But I'll use a couple hundred gallons a month and it dosen't have to do it's stupid ethonal gas thing. Come fall I switch to non-e for my last 3 tanks or so
That is wise swapping over right before you button everything up at the end of the season.

If you're one of the folks that actually uses a boat year round, E10 seems to work. Everyone freaked about ethanol in older cars, but to tell you the truth, I've never seen an issue in a 36 year old fuel system on my truck that's been running ethanol since we first saw it at the pumps in Texas. I run enough fuel through it so that issues have never occurred.

Buddy of mine, and another friend's dad both use their boats all year for fishing and skiing or just cruising around the lake. They just fill up at whatever gas station on the way to the particular lake and don't give it one thought. Again, running enough fuel through to keep it very fresh.

On my weedeater, I drain the tank and run it till it quits. Riding mower gets shut off on a valve before the carb and run till it quits as well. So far so good.
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Old 06-19-2019, 09:51 AM   #61 (permalink)
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I dont understand this.
2,700 HP for ~$120k seems economically stupid,
I feel like you could get much more HP for cheaper out of a V drive or similar. whats the purpose?
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Old 06-19-2019, 09:57 AM   #62 (permalink)
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I dont understand this.
2,700 HP for ~$120k seems economically stupid,
I feel like you could get much more HP for cheaper out of a V drive or similar. whats the purpose?
I'm not a boat expert, but one problem I'm seeing is where the weight is and the potential speed of the boat. Outboard is a best case scenario. It's like a hopped up VW bug with all the engine weight over the drive wheels and none up front. My bass boat owner buddy was telling me some of the fastest boats out there are outboards because of this.

I suspect some of it is longevity as well. These are wound up quite a bit and it would be hard to keep 2700 hp sustained at high rpm out of a V8 for less money. High performance V8s of that caliber can easily cost that and more.

Edit: Other advantage, more props. V drive gets you one fluid pusher, unless you stack more on a single shaft, which weakens said shaft. Multiple 450s seems a hell of a lot easier to engineer and you have multiple props that don't interfere with each others angle of attack.
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Old 06-19-2019, 10:27 AM   #63 (permalink)
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I dont understand this.
2,700 HP for ~$120k seems economically stupid,
I feel like you could get much more HP for cheaper out of a V drive or similar. whats the purpose?
Outboard's take up less space in the boat, more room for another tank/bed/closet.
Easy to swap an engine if needs service. This is why banks of verados are popular for drug interceptor boats.
Those engines will last a lot longer near or at WOT than a typical automotive based V8 cranked up to those power levels. You'd be looking at a couple of merc racing inboards to do that kind of power which takes up a lot of space in the boat.
People that buy boats like that DGAF about economical viability and will buy what they want.
Noise. I've no idea about that 450hp monster, but I ran some 300hp verados when I co-op'd at mercury marine and at idle and light throttle the only thing you can hear is the cooling water tell-tail splashing. If there is any wake at all you can't hear them idle.

I'd guess the biggest reason is space in the boat.
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Old 06-19-2019, 05:16 PM   #64 (permalink)
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$54,000 to $64,000 each.

That seems like a fantastic profit margin for Mercury. Although R&D costs combined with low unit production numbers probably make it a lot lower than I'm imagining. Either way, that's a lot of money for an outboard.
I'll eat my crow. My source last month was wrong. Lol
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Old 06-19-2019, 05:29 PM   #65 (permalink)
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That's a loaded question.

Your typical boat owner will be lucky to put 20 hors ayear on a motor and it will.propably never see 1,000 hours. A hard core weekend fisherman will do 80 to 100 hours. A fulltime Waterman will do 1,000 a year easy.

With proper maintenance ive personally seen both Yamahas and Mercurys with well over 10k hours and no l signficant issues. Sure other have done it but just my personal experience.
Thanks, that helps put things in perspective. Are these "factory hot-rods" more finnicky though?

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2500 cycles minimum. A cycle is engine cold up to operating temp and back to cold.

Engineer buddy says building a engine that can survive the South American fuel aka “jungle juice” is the toughest challenge. It’s the sole reason they still use iron liners in the new engine vs a nickasil coating.
Must be the ph of the fuel or something else chemistry wise that eats the liners To a lesser degree I'm sure when fueling your boat (especially if travelling long distance on the water and not fueling on shore), you'd be subject to filling at places with varying quality/age of fuel and that maintain their tanks and infrastructure to different degrees.
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Old 06-19-2019, 05:46 PM   #66 (permalink)
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I've got a 250 Mercury Verado with a 350 Simon's tune on My 96 Stamas . Its scoots I cant imagine a boat with 3 or 4 450s . Although I've seen a high dollar patio boat with twin 400r Verados . Was told it would go 120 mph. Loaded.

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Old 06-19-2019, 06:10 PM   #67 (permalink)
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I've got a 250 Mercury Verado with a 350 Simon's tune on My 96 Stamas . Its scoots I cant imagine a boat with 3 or 4 450s . Although I've seen a high dollar patio boat with twin 400r Verados . Was told it would go 120 mph. Loaded.
That's bull shit unfortunately
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Old 06-19-2019, 06:11 PM   #68 (permalink)
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Thanks, that helps put things in perspective. Are these "factory hot-rods" more finnicky though?



Must be the ph of the fuel or something else chemistry wise that eats the liners To a lesser degree I'm sure when fueling your boat (especially if travelling long distance on the water and not fueling on shore), you'd be subject to filling at places with varying quality/age of fuel and that maintain their tanks and infrastructure to different degrees.
I'd bet loss of octane because old/shit fuel
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Old 06-19-2019, 06:14 PM   #69 (permalink)
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I dont understand this.
2,700 HP for ~$120k seems economically stupid,
I feel like you could get much more HP for cheaper out of a V drive or similar. whats the purpose?
That is 2,700hp for 325k, before labor or taxes. Figure $400k.
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Old 06-19-2019, 08:34 PM   #70 (permalink)
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I've got a 250 Mercury Verado with a 350 Simon's tune on My 96 Stamas . Its scoots I cant imagine a boat with 3 or 4 450s . Although I've seen a high dollar patio boat with twin 400r Verados . Was told it would go 120 mph. Loaded.
That's bull shit unfortunately
Which part ???
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Old 06-19-2019, 09:11 PM   #71 (permalink)
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Which part ???
probably the doing 120mph loaded part
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Old 06-19-2019, 10:15 PM   #72 (permalink)
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Dude I worked for back in the 80's had a Sanger Alley Cat with two 2.4 Mariner Racing OB's strapped on the back, full jack places, etc.. That thing was good for 130mph, and could handle rough water up to the high 90's. On the Sacramento river it was king, except for a couple blown flatbottoms or runner bottoms , but if there was any wind, that Sanger would walk away.

I love the sound of a big-block in a boat, but clamp-ons rule the day in most applications.

Also from my days in Sac, there was a guy that had a Sanger bubble deck with a Jag V-12 that had 6 two-barrel Webbers on top and two 6:1 open headers. It wasn't real fast, but damn did it sound good.
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Old 06-19-2019, 10:42 PM   #73 (permalink)
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Dude I worked for back in the 80's had a Sanger Alley Cat with two 2.4 Mariner Racing OB's strapped on the back, full jack places, etc.. That thing was good for 130mph, and could handle rough water up to the high 90's. On the Sacramento river it was king, except for a couple blown flatbottoms or runner bottoms , but if there was any wind, that Sanger would walk away.



I love the sound of a big-block in a boat, but clamp-ons rule the day in most applications.



Also from my days in Sac, there was a guy that had a Sanger bubble deck with a Jag V-12 that had 6 two-barrel Webbers on top and two 6:1 open headers. It wasn't real fast, but damn did it sound good.



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Old 06-19-2019, 10:45 PM   #74 (permalink)
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Old 06-19-2019, 10:49 PM   #75 (permalink)
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Yep, these twin cylinders are the basis of many racing outboards. People still wonder why I keep this old 2 smoke instead of getting a 4 stroke. I love how I can bear hug the thing and lift it off the stand and onto the transom. Try doing that with a 25-30hp 4 stroke.
So you're basing your engine selection off whether you can pick it up or not?
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