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Old 07-16-2019, 08:19 AM   #51 (permalink)
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One of the basic stratedgy's of a traditional IRA or 401k is that it presumes you are in a higher tax bracket when you are contributing, and a lower one when you are withdrawing. A Roth has it's place, but if the above example is correct for you, a Roth is not what you should be doing.
i dont care what tax bracket your are in ... im paying taxes as i go on 227k not the 1.7mil of growth. that $541 is the current ROTH max of 6500 for the year.

can you get fancy and start moving money around and being cute to save a few bucks on taxes, yes. but simple repeated over and over will do just fine.
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Old 07-16-2019, 09:19 AM   #52 (permalink)
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Care to explain that with some numbers?
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Below is a breakdown of $100,000 income in Kalifornia. That is not a huge number here. In fact it is very close to poverty in several counties. I was amazed that you cannot find what an average person pays in taxes and fees per year. I bet those that itemize would know, and what the governance doesn't want you to know. Seems pretty easy to get to 50% taxes and fees.

Income taxes 29%
Sales taxes. Avg 8%
home taxes Avg 0.8% After deductions. Avg home is $380,000
fees and bonds home 0.5%
gas taxes $ 0.47 per gallon.
personal property tax 1%
fees passed on by business
Disability, city taxes, water, power, phone, etc. etc.
.
OK, I see where your going, but most of that stuff is spending the money. You don't lose half of it before you get it. You get to choose what you spend money on. If I retired from CA, the first thing I would do is GTFO.
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Old 07-16-2019, 09:24 AM   #53 (permalink)
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OK, I see where your going, but most of that stuff is spending the money. You don't lose half of it before you get it. You get to choose what you spend money on. If I retired from CA, the first thing I would do is GTFO.
see my post above, depending on when you pay the taxes, it drastically changes what your tax liability is when you withdraw.
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Old 07-16-2019, 09:44 AM   #54 (permalink)
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i dont care what tax bracket your are in ... im paying taxes as i go on 227k not the 1.7mil of growth. that $541 is the current ROTH max of 6500 for the year.

can you get fancy and start moving money around and being cute to save a few bucks on taxes, yes. but simple repeated over and over will do just fine.
where can I find that calculator? I like the looks of that one.
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Old 07-16-2019, 09:45 AM   #55 (permalink)
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where can I find that calculator? I like the looks of that one.
https://www.daveramsey.com/smartvest...ent-calculator
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Old 07-16-2019, 09:58 AM   #56 (permalink)
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Sweet. Thank you very much!!
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Old 07-16-2019, 10:12 AM   #57 (permalink)
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I retired at 51. I could've gone 5 more years for a better retirement, but I chose to take a hit in my retirement, as opposed to taking a hit in my health after another 5 years.

I ain't rich, but I'm comfortable.
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Old 07-16-2019, 10:49 AM   #58 (permalink)
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I basically retired back in Mar this year...
Only 1 observation, while the idea of doing the "every 10 yr" sabbatical sounds neat, there's only 1 issue, finding work when older (over 55), BTDT. Im 67 BTW...

Don't believe for a minute that finding work is easy as an older employee. To stay out from underfoot I've been doing a bit of searching and had numerous face to face interviews over the past couple months. More often than not its a "look" on the face of supervisors concerned I might replace them or HR reviewing a job I'm obviously overqualified for...

Just sayin'
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Old 07-16-2019, 12:01 PM   #59 (permalink)
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I know you wouldnít dare take SS or Medicare for your disdain for socialism. Iím just glad olí orange game show host is on track to add to the national debt more than any one else before him. But since most of the tax breaks went to the rich we donít call it socialism We call it trickle down economics.

https://www.thebalance.com/us-debt-b...ercent-3306296

Ops question is once my kids are out of the house. My plan is to only work part time 4-6 months at a time 2-3 months in between. I wonít have a house payment I sock away 20ish % now. It maybe less when I do it. But I saw my parents work and save and as soon as they retire between health problems and raising grand children. They canít do much.
you are saying trump is going to double the national debt ? even more than obama did? i know you saw it on the internet and it must be true.
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Old 07-16-2019, 12:17 PM   #60 (permalink)
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you are saying trump is going to double the national debt ? even more than obama did? i know you saw it on the internet and it must be true.
No his contribution to the debt under his presidency is on track to be more than Barak Obama or anyone else.

I’ve read this several places that had trump not pushed his tax cut through it’s plausible he would have contributed the lowest to the national debt since Regan. But the rich need that socialism. Granted I did receive a temporary tax cut under trump.

Edit: if trump would have cut military spending to offset the tax cuts I would have been for it. Bombing poor brown people doesn’t seem like a very economical viable operation.

Sorry to derail this thread.
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Old 07-16-2019, 12:34 PM   #61 (permalink)
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I basically retired back in Mar this year...
Only 1 observation, while the idea of doing the "every 10 yr" sabbatical sounds neat, there's only 1 issue, finding work when older (over 55), BTDT. Im 67 BTW...

Don't believe for a minute that finding work is easy as an older employee. To stay out from underfoot I've been doing a bit of searching and had numerous face to face interviews over the past couple months. More often than not its a "look" on the face of supervisors concerned I might replace them or HR reviewing a job I'm obviously overqualified for...

Just sayin'
Not sure about that. Young employees are so fleeting, older guys look pretty good. For example, who would think of taking off a year thirty years ago. Nobody in my circle.

I retired a couple years ago in my fifties. Fortunately I have an instructors license to teach helicopter pilots. I don't really want to do it much (just keep my feet wet) and I don't really need the money, so I priced myself real high. You wouldn't believe it, but now I have a rep as like the best instructor. This year I have tons of guys hiring me. I guess they think because I charge so much, I'm better. I'm a good pilot, but I don't really think I'm special. It blows me away how people are throwing money at me. I get offers all the time to go to their location all expenses and my rediculas rate.

You maybe right, I might not be able to get a real job flying anymore because of age.
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Old 07-16-2019, 12:34 PM   #62 (permalink)
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and the fact that the government is taking in more revenue doesn't play in it?
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Old 07-16-2019, 01:58 PM   #63 (permalink)
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there are things i want to do that need extensive amounts of time.
There's no reason, with the right gig, you can't have "extensive" amounts of time to do things.

I'm taking what will probably be one last swing at a business acquisition that would tie me down ... a little bit. On the other hand, it will also give me reason to travel to some pretty cool places across our country.

Once I flip that business (probably in about 5-7 years), I'll most likely create online courses, write books and articles and have zero employees and zero office space outside of my home/car/hotel/wherever. I have no desire to "do nothing." I want to continue to produce for as long as I can.

There are hundreds of alternatives to traditional white collar (or blue) collar jobs that don't truly tie one down.
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Old 07-16-2019, 06:08 PM   #64 (permalink)
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Sounds like retiring early with a skill and a household is the ticket. If you tighten lug nuts in a factory, or can be replaced with automaton you are SOL.
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Old 07-16-2019, 06:22 PM   #65 (permalink)
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i dont care what tax bracket your are in ... im paying taxes as i go on 227k not the 1.7mil of growth. that $541 is the current ROTH max of 6500 for the year.

can you get fancy and start moving money around and being cute to save a few bucks on taxes, yes. but simple repeated over and over will do just fine.
The fallacy of the graph in your post is that inflation is not taken into account. Ask what $1.9MM means in 35 years. I bet it would be in the range of $1mm.

And hopefully your salary has kept up with inflation. Know that in only rare cases, will you get a raise more than 5% per year on average. The older you get the less. The only way to beat that is to change employers, or move to a better position within the company...or hopefully start a profitable business.

Of course you can beat the 5% rule by just working 5% less per year....LOL.
Work smarter not harder.
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Old 07-16-2019, 07:16 PM   #66 (permalink)
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No his contribution to the debt under his presidency is on track to be more than Barak Obama or anyone else.

Iíve read this several places that had trump not pushed his tax cut through itís plausible he would have contributed the lowest to the national debt since Regan. But the rich need that socialism. Granted I did receive a temporary tax cut under trump.

Edit: if trump would have cut military spending to offset the tax cuts I would have been for it. Bombing poor brown people doesnít seem like a very economical viable operation.

Sorry to derail this thread.
Ummm, a tax cut is socialism?

How about cutting social programs to offset the tax cut?

To be clear, the budgets that Trump has signed is my biggest disappointment in him. I'm hoping that now that he has fixed the economy, maybe he will address the debt in his second term. (Probably not)
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Old 07-16-2019, 07:25 PM   #67 (permalink)
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No his contribution to the debt under his presidency is on track to be more than Barak Obama or anyone else.

I’ve read this several places that had trump not pushed his tax cut through it’s plausible he would have contributed the lowest to the national debt since Regan. But the rich need that socialism. Granted I did receive a temporary tax cut under trump.

Edit: if trump would have cut military spending to offset the tax cuts I would have been for it. Bombing poor brown people doesn’t seem like a very economical viable operation.

Sorry to derail this thread.

We are adding to the debt faster than at any point during Obama's presidency. No one in DC cares. And what it's worse... The electorate doesn't care either, as long as they get their free stuff.

On the tax cuts adding to the debt - Last year broke all tax collection records. It's not a revenue problem. It's a spending problem.

And yes, I would be happy to make savage cuts to military spending. Given that it's run by politicians and bureaucrats, there must be enormous corruption and inefficiencies that we can get rid of without affecting performance.
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Old 07-17-2019, 11:52 AM   #68 (permalink)
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The fallacy of the graph in your post is that inflation is not taken into account. Ask what $1.9MM means in 35 years. I bet it would be in the range of $1mm.

And hopefully your salary has kept up with inflation. Know that in only rare cases, will you get a raise more than 5% per year on average. The older you get the less. The only way to beat that is to change employers, or move to a better position within the company...or hopefully start a profitable business.

Of course you can beat the 5% rule by just working 5% less per year....LOL.
Work smarter not harder.
inflation is going to chew up my money, be it a taxable or nontaxable. so unless im am missing an economic principal, the growth of the account over time will be independent of inflation. i wont argue that 2.5mil will have less buying power in 35 yrs, no argument there at all. i also think healthcare cost will have bigger impact on peoples ability to retire in the future than inflation will.
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Old 07-17-2019, 12:07 PM   #69 (permalink)
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Once I flip that business (probably in about 5-7 years), I'll most likely create online courses, write books and articles and have zero employees and zero office space outside of my home/car/hotel/wherever. I have no desire to "do nothing." I want to continue to produce for as long as I can.
i was thinking about this last night on my pedal. if i did extended periods off i wouldnt be doing nothing, it would be to relax and spend time improving/learning new skillsets. in my head this is what my perfect mini retirement week would look like when i was home. i would take a few extend trips to do cool stuff, figure 20% of the time.

m-f: kids breakfast, drop them off at school, shadow someone or work at a business for free (see below), pick kids up, dinner, hump wife, bed

t-th: kids breakfast, drop em off at school, mtb ride/gym, hump wife, lunch, read, pick kids up, homework, dinner, bed.

w: golf with my dad, lunch spend afternoon with wife, pick kids up with wife, dinner, hump wife bed.

one of the places i worked in my 20s had an old guy who built a business and sold it. he was loaded. he would come in a few days a week and help out with whatever needed to be done and hang out. his son was friends with the owner. it gave him something to do, he also helped the owner out in a mentorship way. i would probaby leverage a few relationships and see if i couldnt shadow some CEO types of different companies. there are also some people i know who have their own business, where i could just be helpful.
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Old 07-17-2019, 12:49 PM   #70 (permalink)
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We are adding to the debt faster than at any point during Obama's presidency. No one in DC cares. And what it's worse... The electorate doesn't care either, as long as they get their free stuff.

On the tax cuts adding to the debt - Last year broke all tax collection records. It's not a revenue problem. It's a spending problem.

And yes, I would be happy to make savage cuts to military spending. Given that it's run by politicians and bureaucrats, there must be enormous corruption and inefficiencies that we can get rid of without affecting performance.
I agree, but not enough care to make a difference. At some point your going to want to own a big enough farm to feed yourself and enough guns to protect it. Were not even going to slow down for the cliff, just full steam ahead.
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Old 07-17-2019, 03:50 PM   #71 (permalink)
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inflation is going to chew up my money, be it a taxable or nontaxable. so unless im am missing an economic principal, the growth of the account over time will be independent of inflation. i wont argue that 2.5mil will have less buying power in 35 yrs, no argument there at all. i also think healthcare cost will have bigger impact on peoples ability to retire in the future than inflation will.
In your example, you included the projected "profit"of 10% per year. Well we haven't seen that average in quite some time. And hopefully when you do retire it is not when whatever investments you are in...are valuable. Not so long ago, some 401k's took 50% beatings and kept several (of us) working for a while longer. My employer kicked in an extra 50% to whatever I invested. That kept me whole in the long run. And the banks knew that they were making out as they could use your money for free and lend it for 4-16%. That can mean they are making 400-1600% profit on your $$$$ AND only have to payback in DE-flated money 35 years later.

There has to be an enlightened banker here. Not a sales guy but one that will talk about how THEY make money.

To me. If you can buy something cheap that you will still have and want 35 years from now. Make it happen and enjoy it for 35+ years. (I have had my flatfender for 45 years ) As for the wife, make it happen now also, testosterone will not rise as easy 35 years from now. And you will be lucky to shoot your age on the course. Cheers.

Where you want to skimp now is what you won't remember 35 years from now. Movies, restaurants, too many techie products that will have obsolete lifetimes, etc. (((And thinking about a second wife)))
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Old 07-17-2019, 04:10 PM   #72 (permalink)
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It is doable, some take off more frequently than that. But a few things make it hard

1. Retirement accounts are built that you can get the money till a certain age. So you have to invest/save somewhere else you can get your money out of

2. Healthcare in the US is a clusterfuck. You either go uncovered or pay out the nose

3. Many professions don't lend well, and employeers look at jobless times as bad, in general. Some occupations work better than others

4. Family - kids, pets, etc. Costs go up and it gets complex as they get older. Can be solved...

The best way I've seen people pull it off it traveling. They take a year off every few and travel the world. There are a ton of countries where a dollar goes further than here, Healthcare is a gamble anyway, and it doesn't look as bad on a resume to say you were traveling across Africa instead of how you spent all spring fishing on your bass boat. Or you can "invest" in rental homes, small cash businesses, etc that by the time you have 5-6 pay your salary with minimal intervention. Then your "retired" but have active income.

Other option is to retire at 60ish and buy every toy you want, hit it hard and figure one of them will kill you before you run out of cash at 70

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Old 07-17-2019, 10:13 PM   #73 (permalink)
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^^^^^^^ LOL

AT 65 we have medicare which handles the basics. Then it is up to you to add on the extra's. My health care plan is near 100% and about $400/month. I didn't take SS until 70 and my take home is about $1100. I always figured that SS would all be sucked up with medical, and to not plan on it. So far, so good.
As you say... Where will we be 30 years hence??? But any which way, planning no SS and some medical is a good start. If that gets problematic, you would have Venezuela in our streets.
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Old 09-03-2019, 08:41 PM   #74 (permalink)
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There's plenty of people on expedition portal who have either hit the road full time or done a year on the road and I'm guessing some good reading on how they did it.

This is our plan. Pretty half-baked at this point, but I think we're about 5 years out from trying out full-timing in our RV. I think we'll be able to get that done for about $6k/month, but that's based on a spreadsheet, not actual data.
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Old 09-03-2019, 08:43 PM   #75 (permalink)
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^^^^^^^ LOL

AT 65 we have medicare which handles the basics. Then it is up to you to add on the extra's. My health care plan is near 100% and about $400/month. I didn't take SS until 70 and my take home is about $1100. I always figured that SS would all be sucked up with medical, and to not plan on it. So far, so good.
As you say... Where will we be 30 years hence??? But any which way, planning no SS and some medical is a good start. If that gets problematic, you would have Venezuela in our streets.
That's the same way I see medical stuff. I don't know if I'll have enough, but I know I'll have much more than most. So, if I'm totally screwed...
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