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Old 07-18-2019, 05:36 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by thumping View Post
I still think the reason we have so many unqualified police officers is due to the constant lowering of standards so as not to "exclude" those that shouldn't even be allowed to be a parking meter maid.
Or the fact that we collectively judge all law enforcement officer by the actions of a few, assume their all asshats and treat them that way? And then add more and more bureaucratic oversight, second guessing, liability and general asspain to them all so no one wants to do the job?

Not saying this guy was in the right, but the more we collectively demean cops the more we're going to get asshats doing the job - it's a self reinforcing cycle. Keep in mind too that news articles rarely get all the facts actually right, there's 2 sides to any story, and in practice folks are usually making potentially life or death decisions in the blink of an eye with limited facts while we're all analyzing it with 20/20 hindsight, all the facts and no pressure......
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Old 07-18-2019, 05:45 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Or the fact that we collectively judge all law enforcement officer by the actions of a few, assume their all asshats and treat them that way? And then add more and more bureaucratic oversight, second guessing, liability and general asspain to them all so no one wants to do the job?

Not saying this guy was in the right, but the more we collectively demean cops the more we're going to get asshats doing the job - it's a self reinforcing cycle. Keep in mind too that news articles rarely get all the facts actually right, there's 2 sides to any story, and in practice folks are usually making potentially life or death decisions in the blink of an eye with limited facts while we're all analyzing it with 20/20 hindsight, all the facts and no pressure......


the solution would be to simply have less laws.
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Old 07-18-2019, 05:47 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Direct result was LE backed down at Bundy Ranch.,


thanks to the Sheriff of clark county...

Brailsford got a retirement package for shooting a guy who was pulling up his shorts. He was also an aggressive faggot who had 'You're Fucked' engraved into his weapon.


so getting fired and retirement package is the same thing....you are fucking stupid...

I don't like it, but it's a fact.
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Old 07-18-2019, 05:48 PM   #29 (permalink)
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the solution would be to simply have less laws.
When have you ever seen less laws, or even the procedure to take them off the books?

less regulation yes

I'd love to see a bunch of laws changed
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Old 07-18-2019, 05:49 PM   #30 (permalink)
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uhh, I hate to agree with everboob, but that guy that shot the guy in the hallways that was cralwing got rehired, and then "medically retired" for his PTSD and not gets a pension check monthly.
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Old 07-18-2019, 05:51 PM   #31 (permalink)
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When have you ever seen less laws, or even the procedure to take them off the books?

less regulation yes

I'd love to see a bunch of laws changed
but that is the solution.

more freedom means less crimes for bad cops to trump shit up against people.

it means less people in the system for stupid shit with a beef against cops.

it means less resources needed.

it's the solution, too bad everyone is always "government should do something", without realizing that all government can do is send people with guns to enforce laws and sometimes people get dead.
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Old 07-18-2019, 06:27 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Was shooting at the dog a lawful act by the cop? That's the question that steers everything else.
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Old 07-18-2019, 06:35 PM   #33 (permalink)
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uhh, I hate to agree with everboob, but that guy that shot the guy in the hallways that was cralwing got rehired, and then "medically retired" for his PTSD and not gets a pension check monthly.
Ho Lee fuk I did not know that... I just remember when he got fired
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Old 07-18-2019, 06:37 PM   #34 (permalink)
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but that is the solution.

more freedom means less crimes for bad cops to trump shit up against people.

it means less people in the system for stupid shit with a beef against cops.

it means less resources needed.

it's the solution, too bad everyone is always "government should do something", without realizing that all government can do is send people with guns to enforce laws and sometimes people get dead.
I'm definitely in agreement....

I'm in less government and more freedoms camp....and less government pays for bullshit
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Old 07-18-2019, 06:46 PM   #35 (permalink)
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So he just got rehired ... then took a medical... it's interesting that the bankruptcy paperwork showed he's getting $865 a month but the city council said 2500 a month so I don't know who is wrong there....

And it is interesting that they bought a second-degree murder charge against him and he was acquitted... so maybe there's more to the story then just what you saw in the video
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Old 07-19-2019, 06:23 AM   #36 (permalink)
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So he just got rehired ... then took a medical... it's interesting that the bankruptcy paperwork showed he's getting $865 a month but the city council said 2500 a month so I don't know who is wrong there....

And it is interesting that they bought a second-degree murder charge against him and he was acquitted... so maybe there's more to the story then just what you saw in the video
mother fucker shouldn't get a damned thing from the taxpayers, he fucked up, he got fired.

if you got fired, would your employer hire you just so they could put you on the pension plan, at age 30?

I'd think not.
so why do public unions/employees seem to get these kinds of sweet pension deals?
Double dipping is a common practice here. There's no law against it. You work your 20 years, retire, and then get yourself hired IN THE SAME POSITION. Bam, now you collect your pension and your regular paycheck.
https://www.cleveland19.com/2018/11/...alary-pension/
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Old 07-19-2019, 08:24 AM   #37 (permalink)
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I disagree. From what I read the dog was not being aggressive at anytime it was just there. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to shoot a nonaggresive dog. If hes afraid of dogs thats too bad, hes a pussy and pussys shouldnt be cops. From my point of view he was being negligent and reckless and discharged his weapon for no reason. In almost every jurisdiction an officers negligent and reckless actions will eliminate any possibility of qualified immunity. Unless theres more information missing regarding the dogs behaviour I think the court screwed up.
We only read one side of the story, where the Cop's side. Regardless, I'm saying its still the "employer's" responsibility if they hire shitty "employees". Even if the employer is government.

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the attached docs are the fucking court documents, as published by the court, on a .gov website.

not some opinion piece on the internet like you linked.
The court documents relay her story for the purpose of the lawsuit. Not the whole story, it includes almost nothing from the side of the defense.
Again, it would be interesting to see what the cop put on his report.
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Old 07-19-2019, 10:46 AM   #38 (permalink)
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We only read one side of the story, where the Cop's side. Regardless, I'm saying its still the "employer's" responsibility if they hire shitty "employees". Even if the employer is government.



The court documents relay her story for the purpose of the lawsuit. Not the whole story, it includes almost nothing from the side of the defense.
Again, it would be interesting to see what the cop put on his report.
Its not the employers fault if the officer acted in an unsafe and negligent manner. No dept trains its officers to shoot dogs that arent threatening or acting aggressive. If we do something that is considered negligent and not covered under policy we will not be covered under qualified immunity.
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Old 07-19-2019, 04:55 PM   #39 (permalink)
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We only read one side of the story, where the Cop's side. Regardless, I'm saying its still the "employer's" responsibility if they hire shitty "employees". Even if the employer is government.



The court documents relay her story for the purpose of the lawsuit. Not the whole story, it includes almost nothing from the side of the defense.
Again, it would be interesting to see what the cop put on his report.
individual responsibility.

if the cops office said "shoot all dogs, wound all children, violate the 4th for everybody you come across" then yes, the office AND the cop should be held liable.

otherwise, just the dude taking the reckless and unwarranted shot
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Old 07-19-2019, 05:02 PM   #40 (permalink)
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We only read one side of the story, where the Cop's side. Regardless, I'm saying its still the "employer's" responsibility if they hire shitty "employees". Even if the employer is government.



The court documents relay her story for the purpose of the lawsuit. Not the whole story, it includes almost nothing from the side of the defense.
Again, it would be interesting to see what the cop put on his report.
me thinks you didn't read the entire document.
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Old 07-19-2019, 05:56 PM   #41 (permalink)
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mother fucker shouldn't get a damned thing from the taxpayers, he fucked up, he got fired.

if you got fired, would your employer hire you just so they could put you on the pension plan, at age 30?

I'd think not.
so why do public unions/employees seem to get these kinds of sweet pension deals?
Double dipping is a common practice here. There's no law against it. You work your 20 years, retire, and then get yourself hired IN THE SAME POSITION. Bam, now you collect your pension and your regular paycheck.
https://www.cleveland19.com/2018/11/...alary-pension/
I AGREE. with you.... but my point is if he was acquitted and he got fired because he got charged but then he was acquitted...then the firing was illegal.... a lot of Civil Service rules would mean he should have got suspended without pay pending the trial outcome.... but since they fired him before he was found guilty, that might be why they let him come back as part of a deal to let him retire with PTSD..instead of suing the city..and then forcing him to come back...i

don't know I'm just guessing
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Old 07-20-2019, 02:35 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Or the fact that we collectively judge all law enforcement officer by the actions of a few, assume their all asshats and treat them that way? And then add more and more bureaucratic oversight, second guessing, liability and general asspain to them all so no one wants to do the job?
Just as a person is judged by the worst act they commit, you are judged by the worst person you keep company with. If the 70-80% of good LEO's out there don't want to be judged by the 20-30% of the thugs with badges, then they need to resolve the matter on their own. For starters they can drop the whole "Brother in Blue" bullshit, all it does id provide a safe haven for the assholes among them. From there, they need to force the assholes among them from service, and blackball them so that they cannot find employment elsewhere, and if they can't get them to resign on their own, hang them out to dry when they call for back-up.

Quote:
Not saying this guy was in the right, but the more we collectively demean cops the more we're going to get asshats doing the job - it's a self reinforcing cycle. Keep in mind too that news articles rarely get all the facts actually right, there's 2 sides to any story, and in practice folks are usually making potentially life or death decisions in the blink of an eye with limited facts while we're all analyzing it with 20/20 hindsight, all the facts and no pressure......
LEO's are granted the authority to execute a civilian without due process, and with that authority, every single action they take while on duty should be scrutinized and second guessed, regardless of the outcome. Their split second decision can have catastrophic outcomes for civilians, just as it did here. In this case, it is clear that neither the dog, the kid, nor the adult male were any threat to the LEO's, the LEO that pulled the trigger should be terminated, and never allowed to be a LEO again, the others on scene, should also all face charges for allowing the situation to get out of hand, and charged accordingly, not as LEO's, but as a if they were civilians who dd the same exact acts.

Both LEO's and civilians are to blame for the "Brother's in Blue" culture, and if we don't start taking the drastic steps needed to change the behavior of LEO's now, we are only furthering the need for a "police state" approach to LE, as their unchecked action further erode the trust between the public and the Police.
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We only read one side of the story, where the Cop's side. Regardless, I'm saying its still the "employer's" responsibility if they hire shitty "employees". Even if the employer is government.
No Cop's side is needed here, the Cop was on private property, the property which did not belong to the suspect they were chasing, neither the man they restrained, the kids, nor the dog the dipshit tried to shoot, were any threat to the LEO's, other than them having been the ones who were trespassing at the time they encountered the dog.

If/when a LEO acts, and those acts are determined to not have been warranted due to the actual facts not being what the LEO believed them to be at the time, that LEO should be punished the same as if he acted knowing the actual facts at the time he acted. In other words, if he thinks a guy has a gun and shoots the guy, then learns the gun was actually a phone, that LEO should be charged the same as if he was just "Joe citizen" out walking and decided to shoot another citizen holding a phone for the fun of it.

I would rather have a LEO afraid of acting due to him being concerned for what will happen if he is wrong, than believing he can act due to having a level of impunity from his actions granted to him by the badge.
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Old 07-20-2019, 06:25 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Jeebus, you make stupid people look intelligent.
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