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Old 07-20-2019, 10:06 PM   #126 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by waterhorse View Post



Just what is an "old man's sports car?


Its what you see parked at the local AARP meeting




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Old 07-20-2019, 10:09 PM   #127 (permalink)
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How many young people have you ever seen in any high end sports car? For the most part, you're middle aged before you have the spare change to buy something expensive and impractical.

There's a reason why the youngsters are in Mustangs or WRXs. They can afford them (or at least get approved for a loan for them).

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Old 07-20-2019, 10:10 PM   #128 (permalink)
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C8 Mid Engine Corvette

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Originally Posted by SLOWPOKE693 View Post
Meh, looks like a modernized Acura NSX.


I think it looks like a new NSX and a 458 had a bastard child.

And is sexy as fuck!

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Old 07-20-2019, 10:30 PM   #129 (permalink)
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It doesn't matter, he lost the race to a civic. But it's fun rowing gears.
Your buddy either:

A) Doesn't know how to drive a manual properly

or

B) Raced a highly modified Civic that can actually put power to the ground

Hellcats are fat pigs that are way under-tired from the factory, but a Type R Civic (the fastest factory Civic ever, manual transmission only as well) puts up over a 1 second slower 0-60 versus a manual transmission Hellcat Challenger.
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Old 07-20-2019, 10:34 PM   #130 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by '84 Bronco II View Post
Your buddy either:

A) Doesn't know how to drive a manual properly

or

B) Raced a highly modified Civic that can actually put power to the ground

Hellcats are fat pigs that are way under-tired from the factory, but a Type R Civic (the fastest factory Civic ever, manual transmission only as well) puts up over a 1 second slower 0-60 versus a manual transmission Hellcat Challenger.
My bet is C. A little bit of both. Probably a modded Civic and buddy can't drive for shit.
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Old 07-20-2019, 10:43 PM   #131 (permalink)
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A mid engine Vette, is about as wrong as a front engine 911, a front wheel drive Mustang, or 4cyl. Lambo, etc. If GM wanted a mid-engine sports car, they should have built one and left the Corvette alone, and either built a C8 or let the name die, like Toyota should have done with the Supra.
GM has been prototyping mid engined corvettes since the 50ís. Itís been planned for decades.
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Old 07-21-2019, 12:53 PM   #132 (permalink)
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To me, this is just the next logical step for the Vette. They've been spitting out mid engined prototypes and concepts for a very long time. The first one was in 1964.

I find it funny that folks are saying Chevy should have changed the name of the Vette, but are just fine with the new Camaro. The Camaro actually died for years and came back as the horrible looking 3800lb car you see today.

I can't wait to see what GM brings out to the La Mans series for racing. It should be interesting.
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Old 07-21-2019, 01:06 PM   #133 (permalink)
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GM has been prototyping mid engined corvettes since the 50ís. Itís been planned for decades.
And people like CA_Snowtoy whined like little girls when Porsche went from an air cooled engine in the 911 to a water cooled one. Never mind that it improved the car by leaps and bounds.
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Old 07-21-2019, 01:26 PM   #134 (permalink)
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Everything evolves , either get with the times or be left in the dust bin of history.
I should be their target market but my mid life crises was 20 years ago.
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Old 07-21-2019, 08:54 PM   #135 (permalink)
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They should put and updated version of the LT5 in it.
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Old 07-21-2019, 09:31 PM   #136 (permalink)
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They should put and updated version of the LT5 in it.
I donít know, I am very impressed with 490 hp out of 6.2L
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Old 07-22-2019, 11:54 AM   #137 (permalink)
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Meh, looks like a modernized Acura NSX.
Looks like the current NSX



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Old 07-22-2019, 11:59 AM   #138 (permalink)
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I donít know, I am very impressed with 490 hp out of 6.2L
My Lingenfelter Vette runs 525 HP naturally aspirated on 91 octane. Meh.

I happened to be with about 300 Corvette owners for the reveal. About half of them left the room within five minutes of the actual reveal.

Personally, I think the new mid-engine Vette will be a better car for the twisties than the previous versions. One of my complaints about my car is the long hood and poor forward visibility. You have to be able to see the corner to drive the corner.

The 0-60 is good, but I'd like to see 0-100, 1/8 mile times, 1/4 mile times, etc.

I consider myself a better than average driver after a fair amount of autocross and drag racing, but I don't think I could do a better job stirring my own than a good DCT.
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Old 07-22-2019, 06:37 PM   #139 (permalink)
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They want to get out from the perception of "best bang for the buck" performance car?

Just what is an "old man's sports car?
A car that primarily old men buy, which with the average age of Vette buyer being over 60, and the average age of those buying the convertible version being 67yrs old, it is the old man's sports car.

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Even though my wife owns one, I'm not really a Vette fan. I like "old iron", but I have to admit it's a hell of a car for the price.
Never stated it wasn't, just that it wasn't a Vette, and that they should have named it something else.

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How bad would it suck to go to the track and get your ass spanked by a guy who paid a fraction of what you did? Because if that guy is in a ZR1 chances are that's what's gonna happen. Price tag doesn't necessarily directly equate to performance. I don't give a damn about the fancy badge. Hell, it's why I would honestly buy the Camaro ZL1 over the ZR1. You're getting really damn close to the same performance at about a 40% discount.
Track performance is not why people buy high end sports cars or super cars, it is a dick measuring competition, and the guys who own the Ferrari or Lambo that get spanked by the ZR1, don't care, because unlike the guy in tthe ZR1, they can afford to buy a car that costs 4-6 times as much.

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How many young people have you ever seen in any high end sports car? For the most part, you're middle aged before you have the spare change to buy something expensive and impractical.

There's a reason why the youngsters are in Mustangs or WRXs. They can afford them (or at least get approved for a loan for them).
The new Corvette wont be any different, as the "average young man" wont be dropping $60k on one, and the wealthy kids and professionals wont likely either due to it being a Corvette. This is the problem GM has created for themselves, they wanted to target the 40-60 crowd who have been buying 911's and Ferrari's, yet retained the name when when they know exactly who their buyers have been for the last 40yrs. They would have been better served, simply naming it something else, and turned the Corvette into a true GT car like the Ferrari California or 812. Had they, they likely would sell just as many to the "old guys" as well as increasing sales to female buyers,, as well as getting the sales of the buyers they are targeting with the new C8

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"old man's sports car" is just a term he uses to justify his prejudice. It's obvious in all his posts in this thread. Even suggesting the ludicrous use of the Fiero name.
Not prejudice at all, just that this is not a Corvette, and GM should have named it something else.

There was also nothing all that wrong with the Fiero for its time, sure the 4 cyl. was a joke, they overheated, caught fire, but when new they weren't all that bad, and the '88 GT V6 started to show what the car was likely envisioned to be, before the bean counters got their hands on it.

Reviving the Fiero name would have been fine, most of their target age group, likely wouldn't even know or remember what the Fiero was, and the tag line "The 2020 Fiero, the car our engineers wanted to build", is a lot better than the "All new 2020 Corvette, the car most of our buyers never wanted us to build".

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And people like CA_Snowtoy whined like little girls when Porsche went from an air cooled engine in the 911 to a water cooled one. Never mind that it improved the car by leaps and bounds.
Nope never whined about that, as the car was still a rear engine rear drive car. Now had they moved the engine to the front and called it a 911, then yes I would have, because that would have changed what makes the 911 unique. The front/rear set-up of the Corvette with its long front is what made it unique, and rather than take the cookie cutter approach to performance cars, GM engineers figured out a way to make the Corvette perform, just as Porsche engineers did with a rear engine 911.
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Old 07-22-2019, 06:57 PM   #140 (permalink)
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I donít know, I am very impressed with 490 hp out of 6.2L
I was talking about the original DOHC one. Version 3 of that motor was supposed to put out 475 from a 5.7L. To bad it got canned, think were it could be with another 15 years of development.

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Old 07-22-2019, 07:29 PM   #141 (permalink)
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Track performance is not why people buy high end sports cars or super cars, it is a dick measuring competition, and the guys who own the Ferrari or Lambo that get spanked by the ZR1, don't care, because unlike the guy in tthe ZR1, they can afford to buy a car that costs 4-6 times as much.
You're the same type of dumbass that buys a $300 pair of dress slacks because of some designer's name and thinks he's better than the guy wearing Levi's who also happens to be fucking his wife.
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Old 07-22-2019, 07:37 PM   #142 (permalink)
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A car that primarily old men buy, which with the average age of Vette buyer being over 60, and the average age of those buying the convertible version being 67yrs old, it is the old man's sports car.



Never stated it wasn't, just that it wasn't a Vette, and that they should have named it something else.



Track performance is not why people buy high end sports cars or super cars, it is a dick measuring competition, and the guys who own the Ferrari or Lambo that get spanked by the ZR1, don't care, because unlike the guy in tthe ZR1, they can afford to buy a car that costs 4-6 times as much.



The new Corvette wont be any different, as the "average young man" wont be dropping $60k on one, and the wealthy kids and professionals wont likely either due to it being a Corvette. This is the problem GM has created for themselves, they wanted to target the 40-60 crowd who have been buying 911's and Ferrari's, yet retained the name when when they know exactly who their buyers have been for the last 40yrs. They would have been better served, simply naming it something else, and turned the Corvette into a true GT car like the Ferrari California or 812. Had they, they likely would sell just as many to the "old guys" as well as increasing sales to female buyers,, as well as getting the sales of the buyers they are targeting with the new C8



Not prejudice at all, just that this is not a Corvette, and GM should have named it something else.

There was also nothing all that wrong with the Fiero for its time, sure the 4 cyl. was a joke, they overheated, caught fire, but when new they weren't all that bad, and the '88 GT V6 started to show what the car was likely envisioned to be, before the bean counters got their hands on it.

Reviving the Fiero name would have been fine, most of their target age group, likely wouldn't even know or remember what the Fiero was, and the tag line "The 2020 Fiero, the car our engineers wanted to build", is a lot better than the "All new 2020 Corvette, the car most of our buyers never wanted us to build".



Nope never whined about that, as the car was still a rear engine rear drive car. Now had they moved the engine to the front and called it a 911, then yes I would have, because that would have changed what makes the 911 unique. The front/rear set-up of the Corvette with its long front is what made it unique, and rather than take the cookie cutter approach to performance cars, GM engineers figured out a way to make the Corvette perform, just as Porsche engineers did with a rear engine 911.
You put an awful lot of thought into the cars other people buy and why
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Old 07-22-2019, 08:34 PM   #143 (permalink)
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My Lingenfelter Vette runs 525 HP naturally aspirated on 91 octane. Meh.

I happened to be with about 300 Corvette owners for the reveal. About half of them left the room within five minutes of the actual reveal.

Personally, I think the new mid-engine Vette will be a better car for the twisties than the previous versions. One of my complaints about my car is the long hood and poor forward visibility. You have to be able to see the corner to drive the corner.

The 0-60 is good, but I'd like to see 0-100, 1/8 mile times, 1/4 mile times, etc.

I consider myself a better than average driver after a fair amount of autocross and drag racing, but I don't think I could do a better job stirring my own than a good DCT.
Yeah, I'm not overly impressed with 490hp out of a naturally aspirated 6.2 liters. Hell, my Yukon Denali gets 420hp out of that same displacement with a torque biased cam. My Lexus IS350 gets close to 310 out of 3.5 liters.
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Old 07-23-2019, 05:31 AM   #144 (permalink)
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Yeah, I'm not overly impressed with 490hp out of a naturally aspirated 6.2 liters. Hell, my Yukon Denali gets 420hp out of that same displacement with a torque biased cam. My Lexus IS350 gets close to 310 out of 3.5 liters.
If your Yukon weighed 3400 lbs you would be quite impressed by 490 HP... engine size means little on a street vehicles except to those who like to talk numbers. What matter is the performance you can actually use...I can say with some confidence that few to none here can use a newer Vette, or many other cars, to their full potential on the street with traction and or stability controls turned off....
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Old 07-23-2019, 07:46 AM   #145 (permalink)
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My Lexus IS350 gets close to 310 out of 3.5 liters.
Well ... since we're dropping liters ... my Infiniti Q50 RS 400 produced 400 HP out of 3 liters from the factory.

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I can say with some confidence that few to none here can use a newer Vette, or many other cars, to their full potential on the street with traction and or stability controls turned off....
With traction control turned off, you're going to need to drop tire pressure and warm up the tires to use a car with performance tires anywhere. Doing that on the street is highly unlikely.
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Old 07-23-2019, 07:56 AM   #146 (permalink)
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Well ... since we're dropping liters ... my Infiniti Q50 RS 400 produced 400 HP out of 3 liters from the factory.
We're talking about naturally aspirated engines, not forced induction.
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Old 07-23-2019, 08:04 AM   #147 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by CA_Snowtoy View Post
A car that primarily old men buy, which with the average age of Vette buyer being over 60, and the average age of those buying the convertible version being 67yrs old, it is the old man's sports car.
So what better way to attract younger demographic than make a cheap "Ferrari"? Cadillac did the same exact thing, the V series brought in a whole new market of owners to the brand.

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Not prejudice at all, just that this is not a Corvette, and GM should have named it something else.

There was also nothing all that wrong with the Fiero for its time, sure the 4 cyl. was a joke, they overheated, caught fire, but when new they weren't all that bad, and the '88 GT V6 started to show what the car was likely envisioned to be, before the bean counters got their hands on it.

Reviving the Fiero name would have been fine, most of their target age group, likely wouldn't even know or remember what the Fiero was, and the tag line "The 2020 Fiero, the car our engineers wanted to build", is a lot better than the "All new 2020 Corvette, the car most of our buyers never wanted us to build".
Brilliant Idea! Name your Halo car after a failed 80's 4cyl car that has the public image of overheating and catching on fire. It doesn't matter that the GT for the last run of the car was actually pretty decent, no one remembers that. You don't throw away the name because you innovate and improve the car, that's just stupid.
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Old 07-23-2019, 08:14 AM   #148 (permalink)
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That thing is as confused as one of those new surnames.
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Old 07-23-2019, 11:27 AM   #149 (permalink)
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We're talking about naturally aspirated engines, not forced induction.
Oh, yeah, I forgot.
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Old 07-23-2019, 11:35 AM   #150 (permalink)
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Mary Bara speaks about the C8

https://theluggnutt.com/2019/07/21/c...-be-dead-soon/
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