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Old 08-14-2019, 01:43 PM   #26 (permalink)
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My joke with my wife (a neuroscientist) whenever I bash my head is that ďI just phosphorilated some tauĒ.

Itís a protein in the brain and itís build up is bad. From Wikipedia:
Beat me to it. If you look at a brain with high concussion rates it looks similar to patients with dementia. Lots of plaque built up and it's known to cause alot of mental issues. Does it cause suicide? Don't know but I'd guess it doesn't help and I know I don't fawk around with concussions. Had enough head issues from chem and radiation I don't need anymore.
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Old 08-14-2019, 02:11 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Maybe he could have used a little help from the government, or maybe it would have made him more miserable, I don't know.
...then you slide right back into less rights/more government
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Old 08-14-2019, 02:41 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Maybe he could have used a little help from the government, or maybe it would have made him more miserable, I don't know.
" Hi I'm from the government , And I'm here to help".

That phrase alone should scare the hell out of you,
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Old 08-14-2019, 02:50 PM   #29 (permalink)
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...then you slide right back into less rights/more government
Not so much government, as wishing there was someone able to help. I don't think this dude went to the doctor much, he was a private contractor so no co-workers, lived alone, not much family, etc. I don't think there would have been any way for "the government" to know he had a problem.
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Old 08-14-2019, 03:32 PM   #30 (permalink)
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I had my first concussion at age 5 in a car accident. I have had 7 total that were diagnosed and a few more that I did not go in for... it has been many many years ago. The rest were sports related and one of them ended my playing career (and did damage to one eye)...

There is something to CTE. I have already committed to donating my brain to the CTE study and my family has all the info (what to do.)

I am not suicidal, but the symptoms are pretty vast in the CTE spectrum and I can attest to them and when I was much younger, in the initial years after playing sports I did have some of the suicidal tendencies etc... but, with hard work and thinking things through and retraining, I've had a fantastic life and very happy....

But... the effects are real. I don't know what is to be done about the lawsuits and the NFL, the league will have to (and other sports as well) adjust knowing the impact that the head injury has on the player....

I'm not about to sue anyone, I played hard and hit hard and accept that. My own son also played, but was fortunate and did not have a serious head injury. He is past his playing, and I'm glad.

Harry Johnson, I am sorry about your friend, but I would not dwell on the idea that you could have done more or different and it would have impacted him. I don't think that is likely to be true. We are the core influence on what happens to us... he repeated the same stuff because he was stuck... but, the person who could unstuck him... was him...

It is hard to witness people who are in need and who are suffering... had you had real opportunity to help him, you would have. He just couldn't take the help and it ended like it ended. Let it go. It was about his life.

We help people when they are ready to be helped... it just doesn't always line up before they check out.
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Old 08-14-2019, 07:03 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Not so much government, as wishing there was someone able to help.
I fully understand that. But what they're alluding to ("forcing" help on you) is where it goes from "help" that you want, to perhaps "help" that you don't want. Like a lobotomy. Or electric shock "therapy".


If you live in a place where that can be done to you, by force, you now live in a fascist society.
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Old 08-14-2019, 07:16 PM   #32 (permalink)
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I'm not advocating the gov't step in and force their way onto someone. I am saying that when a friend or family member might have some kind of actual real mental problem that your local/county gov't might actually be able to provide help for them if you reach out to them instead of your friend/family. They will not do anything to them against their will, not even talk to them, because all of the protections are there for them, not you.
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Old 08-14-2019, 07:47 PM   #33 (permalink)
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I'm not advocating the gov't step in and force their way onto someone. I am saying that when a friend or family member might have some kind of actual real mental problem that your local/county gov't might actually be able to provide help for them if you reach out to them instead of your friend/family. They will not do anything to them against their will, not even talk to them, because all of the protections are there for them, not you.


You seem to be a little unstable!!!!! Youíre gonna have to come with us!!!!! Itís for your own good!!!!!



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Old 08-14-2019, 07:51 PM   #34 (permalink)
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I fully understand that. But what they're alluding to ("forcing" help on you) is where it goes from "help" that you want, to perhaps "help" that you don't want. Like a lobotomy. Or electric shock "therapy".


If you live in a place where that can be done to you, by force, you now live in a fascist society.

And if you're for forced lobotomies then you're a fascist peice of manipulative shit, or you're a Kennedy. But I repeat myself...
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Old 08-14-2019, 07:53 PM   #35 (permalink)
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You brought up "force". Do you need me to quote your own words?
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Old 08-14-2019, 07:57 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Some states have ways to gently "force" some help onto people, and it's the best thing for everyone.
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I'm not advocating the gov't step in and force their way onto someone.
Wait, what?
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Old 08-14-2019, 08:02 PM   #37 (permalink)
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But... the effects are real. I don't know what is to be done about the lawsuits and the NFL.....

I'm not about to sue anyone, I played hard and hit hard and accept that.
Yeah I don't agree with the lawsuit's either. You get paid a crap load (NFL) you need to figure when is enough and get out. If you don't then sorry not everyone is always the smartest in their career paths. Doing it for no money is dumb, imo.
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Old 08-14-2019, 08:12 PM   #38 (permalink)
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You seem to be a little unstable!!!!! Youíre gonna have to come with us!!!!! Itís for your own good!!!!!
It hasn't worked that way in a very long time. If ever, honestly.

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You brought up "force". Do you need me to quote your own words?
You are ignorant, and I don't know how else to explain it. If you don't have any first hand experience I guess you will just go on thinking it works like the movies. It doesn't, and some people have problems they can't deal with on their own. It is up to YOU to seek help for them, and in some states they will help YOU get them the help they need, if they need any. Gently "force" in fucking quotes doesn't mean blast their door down and shoot them into submission.

You cannot just call in some kinda of weirdo alert on someone and have ANYTHING happen to them, nothing will! The police or any other gov't entity cannot and will not force anyone to do anything against their will, not even talk to them, unless they physically hurt themselves or someone else in the case of mental illness. But maybe if you, their friend, were part of trying to get them help, they would be willing to accept some. I'm not talking about someone who acts out or other behavioral quirks here.
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Old 08-14-2019, 08:16 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Yeah I don't agree with the lawsuit's either. You get paid a crap load (NFL) you need to figure when is enough and get out. If you don't then sorry not everyone is always the smartest in their career paths. Doing it for no money is dumb, imo.
I guess 'the thing' is... if the NFL KNEW (had the information about the damage) and didn't share it to keep their money coming in without changing the rules... then I guess i can see suing or punishing them.... in my case, nobody knew shit and everyone was just doing their thing the best they knew how... no intentional harm there...

besides, I have loved my life as it is and whatever damage happened along the way, well, that was part of the ride....
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Old 08-14-2019, 09:58 PM   #40 (permalink)
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You are ignorant, and I don't know how else to explain it. If you don't have any first hand experience I guess you will just go on thinking it works like the movies. It doesn't, and some people have problems they can't deal with on their own..

I've been part of the process twice in my life. Twice too many times, I've stood by and watched "the government" "gently force" my loved ones into locked facilities, "for the good of everyone ". I personally have been fighting with depression most of my life.

Fuck your ignorance.
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Old 08-15-2019, 03:02 AM   #41 (permalink)
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My joke with my wife (a neuroscientist) whenever I bash my head is that ďI just phosphorilated some tauĒ.

Itís a protein in the brain and itís build up is bad. From Wikipedia:
Worlds Largest Concussion!
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Old 08-15-2019, 06:58 AM   #42 (permalink)
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Our oldest son had a stroke at age 24 in the Thalamus portion of his brain. He did not have any physical affects, but this has really changed him mentally. As his brain was healing he went into a deep depression and was suicidal. It didn't help that he was trying to self medicate with alcohol. I was really worried that we were going to lose him, and then finally this past year (two years after the stroke) he decided to quit drinking and make some changes in his life. He is doing much better, but will always have bouts of depression and has a very short temper.

The brain handles trauma different ways for different people. I can see concussions or strokes leading to suicide if they don't want/get help.
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Old 08-15-2019, 07:21 AM   #43 (permalink)
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I've been part of the process twice in my life. Twice too many times, I've stood by and watched "the government" "gently force" my loved ones into locked facilities, "for the good of everyone ". I personally have been fighting with depression most of my life.

Fuck your ignorance.
Please explain in detail.
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Old 08-15-2019, 07:30 AM   #44 (permalink)
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The brain handles trauma different ways for different people. I can see concussions or strokes leading to suicide if they don't want/get help.
It's not just trauma. Repeated concussion build up a physical protein plaque in the brain that is also found in dementia and Alzheimer patients. Obviously those are not things that someone can just work through or fix by a change in life style.

UCLA study finds characteristic pattern of protein deposits in brains of retired NFL players who suffered concussions | UCLA

UCLA study first to image concussion-related abnormal brain proteins in retired NFL players | UCLA

I'd say it's also likely that sports players probably have more chances at injuries then most other people would. AS for the NFL lawsuits I don't think anyone knew the issues until fairly recently. The above articles are about the first on the subject that can show any parallels.

But it's going to change the sport and people will whine about it getting dumbed down and boring because of it.
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Old 08-15-2019, 08:32 AM   #45 (permalink)
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I fully understand that. But what they're alluding to ("forcing" help on you) is where it goes from "help" that you want, to perhaps "help" that you don't want. Like a lobotomy. Or electric shock "therapy".


If you live in a place where that can be done to you, by force, you now live in a fascist society.
I agree with you. I think we already went through this with mental institutions in the US. A lot of people were held against there will, and it was proven it's pretty hard to prove you shouldn't be locked up once they locked you up.

Now though, you get a lot of pro-gun people claiming that all these mass shootings are a result of mental illness that wouldn't be here if we hadn't done away with mental institutions.

You mentioned you were ok with the government intervening if criminal activity was involved. Seems like in the case of mass shootings, suicide by cop, etc. that it wouldn't really matter anyway since the subject would be dead.
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Old 08-15-2019, 08:48 AM   #46 (permalink)
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II am not suicidal, but the symptoms are pretty vast in the CTE spectrum and I can attest to them and when I was much younger, in the initial years after playing sports I did have some of the suicidal tendencies etc... but, with hard work and thinking things through and retraining, I've had a fantastic life and very happy....
How much of that is the concussion vs depression on the abrupt and unwelcome change in lifestyle? Your planned future changed instantly, with no control on your part.
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Old 08-15-2019, 08:57 AM   #47 (permalink)
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I agree with you. I think we already went through this with mental institutions in the US. A lot of people were held against there will, and it was proven it's pretty hard to prove you shouldn't be locked up once they locked you up.

Now though, you get a lot of pro-gun people claiming that all these mass shootings are a result of mental illness that wouldn't be here if we hadn't done away with mental institutions.
This does NOT happen to people in the USA. Nobody will get commited until they physically harm someone, and only after a psychologist makes the determination that they need it. And if they are actually comitted it's not in jail in a cell, they go to a hospital and they try to figure out how to treat it. The only treatment for a chemical imbalance is chemicals - drugs. If they have behavioral problems that's a different story, that's not who we are talking about here.

People who have a real mental illness DO NOT WANT HELP and will not seek it out. The cops, when called, will NOT do anything unless they go willingly. The laws are written to protect people from this and it works way too well.

They don't think there is anything wrong with what they are doing. They might be seeing people, hearing voices, paranoid delusions, illusions of grandeur, and so on. If someone is biploar, for example, and in a manic state they love the feeling it gives them, it's like they are high, while they are killing cats or not sleeping a wink for two weeks. Or when they are so depressed they stop going to work, not talking to people, turning to alcohol, etc.

You are simply not educated in how the system really works, like most people.
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Old 08-15-2019, 09:21 AM   #48 (permalink)
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This does NOT happen to people in the USA. Nobody will get commited until they physically harm someone, and only after a psychologist makes the determination that they need it. And if they are actually comitted it's not in jail in a cell, they go to a hospital and they try to figure out how to treat it. The only treatment for a chemical imbalance is chemicals - drugs. If they have behavioral problems that's a different story, that's not who we are talking about here.

People who have a real mental illness DO NOT WANT HELP and will not seek it out. The cops, when called, will NOT do anything unless they go willingly. The laws are written to protect people from this and it works way too well.

They don't think there is anything wrong with what they are doing. They might be seeing people, hearing voices, paranoid delusions, illusions of grandeur, and so on. If someone is biploar, for example, and in a manic state they love the feeling it gives them, it's like they are high, while they are killing cats or not sleeping a wink for two weeks. Or when they are so depressed they stop going to work, not talking to people, turning to alcohol, etc.

You are simply not educated in how the system really works, like most people.
I know enough about the history of mental health care in the US to know that Gozuki's concerns are real and have happened in our country in the past. I know one of the major contributing factors to the closing of state-run institutions in the 1970s was a direct result of the abuses(similar to what Gozuki is describing) that happened in those institutions.
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Old 08-15-2019, 09:39 AM   #49 (permalink)
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I'd ask both of you to look at current and proposed "red flag" laws to see the sweeping losses of rights that are being enacted, on a layman's say so.

"After the deadly massacre at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida, in 2018, Mr. Trump insisted during a roundtable with lawmakers that he wanted to take guns from dangerous people and worry about due process later.

"Take the guns first, go through due process second," Mr. Trump said at the time."

"In this country under our legal system you are presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, but under one of these orders you are disarmed first, your guns are seized and then you can appear in court to defend yourself."
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Old 08-15-2019, 09:47 AM   #50 (permalink)
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I'd ask both of you to look at current and proposed "red flag" laws to see the sweeping losses of rights that are being enacted, on a layman's say so.

"After the deadly massacre at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida, in 2018, Mr. Trump insisted during a roundtable with lawmakers that he wanted to take guns from dangerous people and worry about due process later.

"Take the guns first, go through due process second," Mr. Trump said at the time."

"In this country under our legal system you are presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, but under one of these orders you are disarmed first, your guns are seized and then you can appear in court to defend yourself."
yeah, I'm not a fan of red flag laws. I'm sure they would work great if everyone in the government was honest and virtuous.

What would your solution be? Would you change anything or leave everything the way we had it(before these newly proposed red flag solutions)?

I'm not trying to be antagonistic, just would like to hear the opinion of someone who has more skin in the game than I.
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