Armed man in custody after ‘suspicious person’ call from Walmart - Page 2 - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum
 
Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum  

Go Back   Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum > Miscellaneous > General Chit-Chat
Notices

Reply
 
Share LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-20-2019, 09:09 AM   #26 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Member # 28880
Location: Spreckels, Ca
Posts: 186
I'd like to know where the line is for you guys, because I haven't decided. Please don't assume I have a stance on this, because I honestly am extremely undecided:

Say there's someone on the way to actually go shoot up a walmart. He's got guns and ammo in the car. So far within his rights as a citizen.

Then he gets out of the car, straps on his rifle, a couple of extra 30 round magazines and walks into walmart. Still within his rights according to the majority of people here.

Now he reaches back, grabs his rifle and flips off the safety. Still good?

Then he swings up his rifle and points it at other humans in the store. Probably not good at this point, ya?

Starts shooting at humans. Definitely not within his rights.

Am I right in stating that if that kid is a good shot, letting him get all the way to aiming at people before taking action will probably result in innocent people dying?

Would you also agree that in entering walmart all tacticooled out will most likely disrupt shopping and maybe even cause a little panic in a private establishment? I know if I saw something like that go down, I would leave the store, shooting or not. Should places like walmart just have to grin and take it on the chin every time someone decides they want to screw up a shopping day? How about a black friday?

Now take the same scenario as above, except his mom sees him leave his neckbeard lair in her basement and calls the cops saying she's worried her son is going to shoot up a store because he's been saying some scary things at home. If the police stop that same person, but in their car after doing so, is that just the police acting on a red flag law?

Last edited by Harry Johnson; 08-20-2019 at 09:10 AM.
Harry Johnson is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-20-2019, 09:15 AM   #27 (permalink)
Registered User
 
arickvan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Member # 188882
Location: Oakley CA
Posts: 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grapehead View Post
Probably exactly what he did, and why he is now red flagged.

Knowing and exercising your rights is an act of terrorism now.
those sovereign citizen nuts might be onto something

"I HAVE SIGNED NO CONTRACTS WITH THE AMERICAN GOVERNMENT!"
arickvan is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-20-2019, 09:25 AM   #28 (permalink)
Registered User
 
arickvan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Member # 188882
Location: Oakley CA
Posts: 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Johnson View Post
I'd like to know where the line is for you guys, because I haven't decided. Please don't assume I have a stance on this, because I honestly am extremely undecided:

Say there's someone on the way to actually go shoot up a walmart. He's got guns and ammo in the car. So far within his rights as a citizen.

Then he gets out of the car, straps on his rifle, a couple of extra 30 round magazines and walks into walmart. Still within his rights according to the majority of people here.

Now he reaches back, grabs his rifle and flips off the safety. Still good?

Then he swings up his rifle and points it at other humans in the store. Probably not good at this point, ya?

Starts shooting at humans. Definitely not within his rights.

Am I right in stating that if that kid is a good shot, letting him get all the way to aiming at people before taking action will probably result in innocent people dying?

Would you also agree that in entering walmart all tacticooled out will most likely disrupt shopping and maybe even cause a little panic in a private establishment? I know if I saw something like that go down, I would leave the store, shooting or not. Should places like walmart just have to grin and take it on the chin every time someone decides they want to screw up a shopping day? How about a black friday?

Now take the same scenario as above, except his mom sees him leave his neckbeard lair in her basement and calls the cops saying she's worried her son is going to shoot up a store because he's been saying some scary things at home. If the police stop that same person, but in their car after doing so, is that just the police acting on a red flag law?
he's within his rights until he flips the safety or takes aim

the police or other armed citizens are also within there right to also go to walmart and to be in the isle right behind this guy

edit: if his mom called in a tip on him then they should take further action that does not infringe on his rights aka stop him for traffic violations, observe him in public areas, dig thru his trash can

Last edited by arickvan; 08-20-2019 at 09:30 AM.
arickvan is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-20-2019, 09:40 AM   #29 (permalink)
Unregistered User
 
Motorcharge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Member # 224886
Location: Virginia
Posts: 8,991
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Johnson View Post
Then he swings up his rifle and points it at other humans in the store. Probably not good at this point, ya?
Your baiting aside, there's not a state in the country where it's legal to brandish a firearm at someone.
Motorcharge is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-20-2019, 09:41 AM   #30 (permalink)
Pirate4x4 Addict!
 
roundhouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Member # 16751
Location: Atlanta Jawja
Posts: 7,565
__________________
Do we really think that a government-dominated education is going to produce citizens capable of dominating their government, as the education of a truly vigilant self-governing people requires?[Alan Keyes]

For some, Freedom matters, for most, prosperity suffices.[Fred Reed]

74Bronco EFI 5spd
roundhouse is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-20-2019, 09:42 AM   #31 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Member # 199544
Location: New York state
Posts: 1,498
Quote:
Originally Posted by ADChevy4x4 View Post
How's that work, you can be detained for 24 hours before the police need to release or present charges? So no big deal...
Didja squeal before they read you the Miranda Rights..... Or was it after?

Always, always get a lawyer. That free call is just for that-
det107 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-20-2019, 09:48 AM   #32 (permalink)
Registered User
 
flecker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Member # 23744
Location: White Mtns., Arizona... it's on the map, just not on any map!
Posts: 10,320
Quote:
Originally Posted by arickvan View Post

edit: if his mom called in a tip on him then they should take further action that does not infringe on his rights aka stop him for traffic violations, observe him in public areas, dig thru his trash can

Maybe the mom is a paranoid loon.

Stopping him on a moving violation, sure. Going back later on some hear say and taking him in to custody, and detaining him? Not sure.

Like bigun pointed out earlier, he was red flagged. Or "profiled". It's sad too, because almost al the people responding on the Petal Police FB page are commending them for their actions, WITHOUT the facts. Was he a threat? Or was he just someone with some guns in his vehicle in a Walmart parking lot. If thats what it takes to be red flagged, well I'm in trouble. As are a few of you guys as well.
__________________
I R A REVOLUTION LEADER!

Last edited by flecker; 08-20-2019 at 09:50 AM.
flecker is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-20-2019, 10:04 AM   #33 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Member # 28880
Location: Spreckels, Ca
Posts: 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by arickvan View Post
edit: if his mom called in a tip on him then they should take further action that does not infringe on his rights aka stop him for traffic violations, observe him in public areas, dig thru his trash can
That doesn't strike you as a little commie/1984ish? Especially that last part?
Harry Johnson is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-20-2019, 10:08 AM   #34 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Yota Up's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Member # 57128
Posts: 14,829
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Johnson View Post
letting him get all the way to aiming at people before taking action will probably result in innocent people dying?
How about you? You're driving your car, next to a sidewalk. The very next second you make a tiny adjustment to the steering wheel and run people over. Are we supposed to allow you to get all the way to driving a car next to a sidewalk before taking action? Maybe someone should arrest you or hold you at gunpoint when they see you pull out your keys before you even get in the car, huh? DO YOU STILL NOT GET IT??


You have no idea what freedom means, nor do you appreciate it.

Last edited by Yota Up; 08-20-2019 at 10:09 AM.
Yota Up is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-20-2019, 10:08 AM   #35 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Member # 198851
Location: In a state of insanity
Posts: 5,212
Quote:
Originally Posted by det107 View Post
Didja squeal before they read you the Miranda Rights..... Or was it after?

Always, always get a lawyer. That free call is just for that-
I was detained, not arrested, no Miranda, no phone call...When the police detain you, they call the shots ...
ADChevy4x4 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-20-2019, 10:09 AM   #36 (permalink)
Registered User
 
arickvan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Member # 188882
Location: Oakley CA
Posts: 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by flecker View Post
Maybe the mom is a paranoid loon.

Stopping him on a moving violation, sure. Going back later on some hear say and taking him in to custody, and detaining him? Not sure.

Like bigun pointed out earlier, he was red flagged. Or "profiled". It's sad too, because almost al the people responding on the Petal Police FB page are commending them for their actions, WITHOUT the facts. Was he a threat? Or was he just someone with some guns in his vehicle in a Walmart parking lot. If thats what it takes to be red flagged, well I'm in trouble. As are a few of you guys as well.
yep that why they should pull him over IF he violates any traffic law

talk to him see if he's a nutso

IF he is a nutbag then follow him

IF nutty goes to suspicious places and does suspicious things, then start a full investigation or get a warrant

isnt that policework??
arickvan is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-20-2019, 10:13 AM   #37 (permalink)
Registered User
 
arickvan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Member # 188882
Location: Oakley CA
Posts: 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Johnson View Post
That doesn't strike you as a little commie/1984ish? Especially that last part?
i can do that to you legally (except for the pulling you over part)

if i do it too much then you could get a restraining order

thats all they can do without a warrant or reasonable cause (probably not the trash can part tho)


and i would rather i got followed by cops for 2 days and they come up with nothing than the cops kick in my door, take all my shit and then realize they have nothing
arickvan is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-20-2019, 10:19 AM   #38 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Member # 28880
Location: Spreckels, Ca
Posts: 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Motorcharge View Post
Your baiting aside, there's not a state in the country where it's legal to brandish a firearm at someone.
Yeah, that was actually my attempt at sarcasm after I tossed out a line about clicking off the safety..

I'm not really trying to bait anyone, this conversation is extremely interesting to me. Where do people draw the line on rights vs. safety. It's really easy to declare that citizen's rights should not be infringed until you're the person ducking bullets in walmart. It's also really easy to drop the "if it saves one life, then that's enough" bleeding heart liberal line until the government is confiscating all your assets and putting you in a labor camp.

I know those are both extreme examples, so in my mind at least, there must be some middle ground in there, hence why I broke some crazy guy's path down step by step to see where people would draw a line and why.
Harry Johnson is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-20-2019, 10:27 AM   #39 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Member # 28880
Location: Spreckels, Ca
Posts: 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yota Up View Post
How about you? You're driving your car, next to a sidewalk. The very next second you make a tiny adjustment to the steering wheel and run people over. Are we supposed to allow you to get all the way to driving a car next to a sidewalk before taking action? Maybe someone should arrest you or hold you at gunpoint when they see you pull out your keys before you even get in the car, huh? DO YOU STILL NOT GET IT??


You have no idea what freedom means, nor do you appreciate it.
I do get it and I do appreciate it. I'm sure if some nutjobs started plowing through farmers markets and convention centers with cars, we would be having the same conversation about a car.... be careful comparing those to guns though. Cars are pretty heavily regulated by the government. The last thing I need is a requirement to buy insurance to operate every gun I own.
Harry Johnson is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-20-2019, 10:29 AM   #40 (permalink)
Registered User
 
flecker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Member # 23744
Location: White Mtns., Arizona... it's on the map, just not on any map!
Posts: 10,320
Quote:
Originally Posted by arickvan View Post
yep that why they should pull him over IF he violates any traffic law

talk to him see if he's a nutso

IF he is a nutbag then follow him

IF nutty goes to suspicious places and does suspicious things, then start a full investigation or get a warrant

isnt that policework??

The problem with that is that it's so subjective. What may seem loony tunes to you isn't exactly crazy to the next guy... Red flag has a different meaning to many, and it's primed to be abused.
__________________
I R A REVOLUTION LEADER!
flecker is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-20-2019, 10:35 AM   #41 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Member # 28880
Location: Spreckels, Ca
Posts: 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by flecker View Post
The problem with that is that it's so subjective. What may seem loony tunes to you isn't exactly crazy to the next guy... Red flag has a different meaning to many, and it's primed to be abused.
Absolutely. I live in a small town(5 blocks by 5 blocks) that's sort of isolated from the rest of the population centers in our county. There's a facebook neighborhood watch group and I'm blown away by half of the crap people here call the cops on. Example: someone saw a teenager riding a skateboard down the street in a hoodie. Boom cops called. OMG a hoodie Barbara! What are we going to do?!?

We don't need Neighborhood Watch Nancy in my town setting the bar for red flags, but people like her are probably the most vocal about it.
Harry Johnson is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-20-2019, 10:37 AM   #42 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Member # 75858
Location: Davisburg, MI
Posts: 554
Quote:
Originally Posted by arickvan View Post
yep that why they should pull him over IF he violates any traffic law

talk to him see if he's a nutso

IF he is a nutbag then follow him

IF nutty goes to suspicious places and does suspicious things, then start a full investigation or get a warrant

isnt that policework??
How do you determine if he is nutso? If he gets pulled over, he is not obligated to answer any questions. He is only required to provide ID, insurance, etc due to the traffic stop. So he could provide the info, accept a traffic ticket and at that time he is free to go on his way with never a word spoken.
__________________
LQ9, Atlas, tons, 8274 & the rest of the usual
white-rhino is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-20-2019, 10:40 AM   #43 (permalink)
Registered User
 
arickvan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Member # 188882
Location: Oakley CA
Posts: 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by flecker View Post
The problem with that is that it's so subjective. What may seem loony tunes to you isn't exactly crazy to the next guy... Red flag has a different meaning to many, and it's primed to be abused.
its better than getting a tip and then detaining the guy for a day and i would imagine theyll search his house!

is this a red flag thing?

all ive heard is "red flag bad"

i havnt looked into exactly what it is yet
arickvan is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-20-2019, 11:06 AM   #44 (permalink)
Registered User
 
arickvan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Member # 188882
Location: Oakley CA
Posts: 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by white-rhino View Post
How do you determine if he is nutso? If he gets pulled over, he is not obligated to answer any questions. He is only required to provide ID, insurance, etc due to the traffic stop. So he could provide the info, accept a traffic ticket and at that time he is free to go on his way with never a word spoken.
same as determining other crimes

im sure murderers and drug dealers get pulled over all the time and nothing happens

if the cop feels so obliged to waste his own time, then follow me for an hour

if i dont like it ill pull over and call his supervisor and lodge a complaint, and tell the dispatcher that hes harrassing me, then the cop will get a call from his supervisor and he'll have to explain that everything was in order but he got a "hunch"

then his super will tell him to fawk off and go write some tickets, or snatch up some of those easy tweaker busts

all sad and blue balled, the cop will have to head over to the opposite side of town and harass some 's to make himself feel better


roll credits
arickvan is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-20-2019, 11:36 AM   #45 (permalink)
Pirate4x4 Addict!
 
roundhouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Member # 16751
Location: Atlanta Jawja
Posts: 7,565
Quote:
Originally Posted by arickvan View Post
yep that why they should pull him over IF he violates any traffic law



talk to him see if he's a nutso



IF he is a nutbag then follow him



IF nutty goes to suspicious places and does suspicious things, then start a full investigation or get a warrant



isnt that policework??


That’s how the okc bomber got caught

Traffic violation , guy seemed nutty , and very nervous , cop keeps asking questions etc
__________________
Do we really think that a government-dominated education is going to produce citizens capable of dominating their government, as the education of a truly vigilant self-governing people requires?[Alan Keyes]

For some, Freedom matters, for most, prosperity suffices.[Fred Reed]

74Bronco EFI 5spd
roundhouse is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-20-2019, 12:26 PM   #46 (permalink)
Registered User
 
paragon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Member # 40266
Location: Jackson, MS USA
Posts: 24,072
After finding two guns along with ammunition, the man was questioned by police and released on scene.

The department later received more information, prompting further investigation, and for the man to be taken into custody for questioning.

As of Monday evening, the man, whose name is [sic] not been released, was still in custody.
__________________
[COLOR="Black"].

...
[/COLOR]
[CENTER][FONT="Franklin Gothic Medium"][SIZE="4"]"For God and country, Geronimo, Geronimo, Geronimo"[/SIZE][/FONT][/CENTER]

Last edited by paragon; 08-20-2019 at 12:27 PM.
paragon is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-20-2019, 12:30 PM   #47 (permalink)
Registered User
 
paragon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Member # 40266
Location: Jackson, MS USA
Posts: 24,072
The man, who has not been identified, is on a 72-hour crisis intervention team hold, Chief Matthew Hiatt said Monday.
__________________
[COLOR="Black"].

...
[/COLOR]
[CENTER][FONT="Franklin Gothic Medium"][SIZE="4"]"For God and country, Geronimo, Geronimo, Geronimo"[/SIZE][/FONT][/CENTER]
paragon is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-20-2019, 12:51 PM   #48 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Member # 20374
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 713
Quote:
Originally Posted by paragon View Post
The man, who has not been identified, is on a 72-hour crisis intervention team hold, Chief Matthew Hiatt said Monday.
Probably safe to say you can add unemployed to the list of factors working against the man now.
Grapehead is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-20-2019, 01:30 PM   #49 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Member # 7772
Posts: 69
The State has an interest in providing for the welfare of its Citizens.

The need for many to feel safe in a Walmart beats your need for one to carry a loaded rifle with 100 rds into a Walmart. It's just that simple.
EverNoob is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-20-2019, 02:11 PM   #50 (permalink)
Registered User
 
flecker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Member # 23744
Location: White Mtns., Arizona... it's on the map, just not on any map!
Posts: 10,320
Quote:
Originally Posted by EverNoob View Post
The State has an interest in providing for the welfare of its Citizens.

The need for many to feel safe in a Walmart beats your need for one to carry a loaded rifle with 100 rds into a Walmart. It's just that simple.
I have an interest in providing for my own well being... the state isn't at my disposal 24/7... I am. I don't cower in the bathroom or closet dialing 911 when something goes bump in the night. Nor do I cower in the frozen food section when I hear popping sounds at Walmart. The State has an obligation to follow it's citizens wishes. Nothing more.

Also, You are not the person I will listen to when it comes to "rights" or civil liberties. If you can't respect a woman's right not to be abused, you forfeit your right to speak about "rights".

Now fawk off.
__________________
I R A REVOLUTION LEADER!
flecker is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

** A VERIFICATION EMAIL IS SENT TO THIS ADDRESS TO COMPLETE REGISTRATION!! **

Email Address:
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:06 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.