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Old 08-30-2019, 09:05 AM   #301 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Harry Johnson View Post
Is not a co op also taxpayer funded, just on a local level rather than a federal level?
no. it's rate-payer funded

you should really strive to learn more about life things before opining. The reason why you have given so much shit is that your opinion is always based in ignorance..... like most Democrats similar to you, you would rather base your opinion on emotion and ignorance rather than logic and knowledge.

The problem with all of that is you think your opinion, en masse, should equate to action.

here we are
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Old 08-30-2019, 09:15 AM   #302 (permalink)
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no. it's rate-payer funded

you should really strive to learn more about life things before opining. The reason why you have given so much shit is that your opinion is always based in ignorance..... like most Democrats similar to you, you would rather base your opinion on emotion and ignorance rather than logic and knowledge.

The problem with all of that is you think your opinion, en masse, should equate to action.

here we are
I base my opinion on personal experience and whatever knowledge I picked up along the way. Lucky for me, there are people out there willing to tell me when my opinion doesn't make sense.

Back to the conversation at hand. If you're getting shitty service from your co-op, how do you switch?
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Old 08-30-2019, 09:19 AM   #303 (permalink)
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You can't get out of my co op. It's them or your own solar.
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Old 08-30-2019, 09:21 AM   #304 (permalink)
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You can't get out of my co op. It's them or your own solar.
Is that because they own all the local power infrastructure? Lines, transfer stations, etc?
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Old 08-30-2019, 09:30 AM   #305 (permalink)
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Yup
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Old 08-30-2019, 09:41 AM   #306 (permalink)
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The University of East Anglia (one of the main IPCC contributors) only uses their "homogenized data" in their studies. They were asked to release their raw temperature data and conveniently... It had been thrown away years earlier. Nothing to see here.

I remember hearing at one point about sea buoys temp data vs ship temp data. The sea buoys showed a cooling trend but not the ships (probably due to the fact the ship itself generated heat). They threw out the buoy data. I dont remember all the details on this. You guys remember?
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Old 08-30-2019, 09:57 AM   #307 (permalink)
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I remember hearing at one point about sea buoys temp data vs ship temp data. The sea buoys showed a cooling trend but not the ships (probably due to the fact the ship itself generated heat). They threw out the buoy data. I dont remember all the details on this. You guys remember?
I thought it was the opposite. Old measurements were taken with ship data before buoys became a thing and new measurements taken with buoys?
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Old 08-30-2019, 10:39 AM   #308 (permalink)
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I remember hearing at one point about sea buoys temp data vs ship temp data. The sea buoys showed a cooling trend but not the ships (probably due to the fact the ship itself generated heat). They threw out the buoy data. I dont remember all the details on this. You guys remember?
https://skepticalscience.com/buoy_on...mperature.html
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Old 08-30-2019, 10:43 AM   #309 (permalink)
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I thought it was the opposite. Old measurements were taken with ship data before buoys became a thing and new measurements taken with buoys?
They adjusted the buoy readings to match the error (from engine room heat) in ship-based readings. That seems backward to me, but the trend in temperature change is arguably more important than absolute temperature, and anyway, according to TFA I linked above, they also tried adjusting the old ship-based readings down and ended up with a nearly identical trend.
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Old 08-30-2019, 11:37 AM   #310 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by CrustyJeep View Post
They adjusted the buoy readings to match the error (from engine room heat) in ship-based readings. That seems backward to me, but the trend in temperature change is arguably more important than absolute temperature, and anyway, according to TFA I linked above, they also tried adjusting the old ship-based readings down and ended up with a nearly identical trend.

I am sure after adjustment it will show whatever they want it to show.
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Old 08-30-2019, 11:45 AM   #311 (permalink)
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I am sure after adjustment it will show whatever they want it to show.
Seems like it would be hard to manipulate the data if they're giving the differential in engine room temperature a constant number. Everything should go up or down by that amount, no more, no less.

Otherwise, what's the point of actually taking measurements from buoys at all? Why not just make some shit up?
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Old 08-30-2019, 11:53 AM   #312 (permalink)
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Damn, you guys are still pissing in the ocean and trying to read the temperature change to prove your theory?

Okay, has (anyone) had a change in what they believe yet?
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Old 08-30-2019, 11:54 AM   #313 (permalink)
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Seems like it would be hard to manipulate the data if they're giving the differential in engine room temperature a constant number. Everything should go up or down by that amount, no more, no less.

Otherwise, what's the point of actually taking measurements from buoys at all? Why not just make some shit up?
That would be 90% of what they actually do....
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Old 08-30-2019, 11:54 AM   #314 (permalink)
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Seems like it would be hard to manipulate the data if they're giving the differential in engine room temperature a constant number. Everything should go up or down by that amount, no more, no less.

Otherwise, what's the point of actually taking measurements from buoys at all? Why not just make some shit up?

engine room temp would not be a constant across all ships. It would vary with ship type, length, sensor location, etc..
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Old 08-30-2019, 11:56 AM   #315 (permalink)
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I am sure after adjustment it will show whatever they want it to show.
The ship-based readings were inaccurate. Would you prefer they kept the inaccurate readings?
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Old 08-30-2019, 11:59 AM   #316 (permalink)
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engine room temp would not be a constant across all ships. It would vary with ship type, length, sensor location, etc..
Right, so according to the article posted by Crusty, here is what they did:
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The main factor behind these changes is the correction in ocean temperatures to account for the transition from ship engine room intake measurement to buoy-based measurements and a calibration of differences across ships using nighttime marine air temperatures (NMAT).
The entire article is a pretty good read.
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Old 08-30-2019, 12:02 PM   #317 (permalink)
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I would prefer they stop trying to make police with unproven science.

The fact remains that our actual sampling of temperatures is so brief in the timeline we have no honest idea if we are cooling in a slight up tick or warming in a slight down tick. Its geological time. 100 years is like a second in the scheme of things.

Ice cores samples suggest we are slightly warming at the beginning on a big slow cooling trend. In 50,000 years one side will point at the other and see I told you so!!


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Old 08-30-2019, 12:08 PM   #318 (permalink)
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I would prefer they stop trying to make police with unproven science.
I would prefer we stop fucking with the make up of the atmosphere when we don't understand exactly what the effect will be, especially now that we know there is and will be an effect.

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The fact remains that our actual sampling of temperatures is so brief in the timeline we have no honest idea if we are cooling in a slight up tick or warming in a slight down tick. Its geological time. 100 years is like a second in the scheme of things.

Ice cores samples suggest we are slightly warming at the beginning on a big slow cooling trend. In 50,000 years one side will point at the other and see I told you so!!
It's almost like you're trying to make the case for global warming. A lot of the problem is that the current warming trend is NOT in geological time. It's orders of magnitude faster than "natural" temperature changes have been in the past.
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Old 08-30-2019, 12:09 PM   #319 (permalink)
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The ship-based readings were inaccurate. Would you prefer they kept the inaccurate readings?
I'm not sure what's funnier, your question or your belief they're not.
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Old 08-30-2019, 12:13 PM   #320 (permalink)
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I'm not sure what's funnier, your question or your belief they're not.
You think ship-based readings are more accurate than dedicated buoy readings? Got anything to back that up?
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Old 08-30-2019, 12:13 PM   #321 (permalink)
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I'm not sure what's funnier, your question or your belief they're not.
Are scientists who study climate change the only researches you don't trust?

Pretty much every study has to have grant money to fund it.
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Old 08-30-2019, 12:15 PM   #322 (permalink)
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You think ship-based readings are more accurate than dedicated buoy readings? Got anything to back that up?
where did I say that? Keep on Crusty, you're finishing Friday strong!
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Old 08-30-2019, 12:17 PM   #323 (permalink)
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Right, so according to the article posted by Crusty, here is what they did:

The entire article is a pretty good read.
This is what I have a problem with. They adjusted the buoy data up. Why? because it "introduced a spurious cooling bias". Bullshit.

From that article:

"NOAA argues that the transition to buoys introduced a spurious cooling bias into the record. ERIs tend to warm the water a bit before measuring it (ship engine rooms being rather hot), whereas buoys do not. They identify a bias of around 0.1 C between buoys and ERIs and remove it by adjusting buoy records up to match ERI records in ERSST v4"
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Old 08-30-2019, 12:18 PM   #324 (permalink)
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Are scientists who study climate change the only researches you don't trust?

Pretty much every study has to have grant money to fund it.
There are a lot of scientist that I don't agree with. Why? Because science is always evolving and what they "knew" for certain yesterday isn't always what they know for certain today.

I'm not saying science is a bad thing but...I don't put 100% faith into it either.
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Old 08-30-2019, 12:19 PM   #325 (permalink)
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The skeptical science site is a total sham. It is exactly what was predicted to happen by people later labeled "Deniers." It is a hit site that slams anything it can. . . and it sucked in Crusty. That page was created to attack Spencer and Solomon. As predictable as the sun rising every day. They think they know but they really don't know. Overall, globally, it makes more sense that warming causes more CO2. No one can disprove that, so they won't try.
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