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Old 09-08-2019, 08:40 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Grout pump, build ? Or buy?

At work . We will have a job site coming up in a few weeks or months where we have about 90 wells that are about 40 feet deep .
About half are 4” diameter and and the other half are 2”

These have to be filled with bentonite and grout mixture

Anybody ever built a grout pump ?
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Old 09-08-2019, 08:45 AM   #2 (permalink)
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No, but my company rents them if your intrested.
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Old 09-08-2019, 08:56 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Our fleet at work uses Moyno pumps, bumper mounted on 3-axle work trucks. Building one, I don't think that's productive or cost effective. Probably buy a new pump for about 2X the cost of trying to build your own, and avoid the risk of having it not perform or fail. But, yeah, you could save a lot of money by DIY and not having the well driller destroy or "abandon" the wells. Your not in CA, fortunately, as a discrete well grout here requires a permit, a licensed well drilling contractor and of course, the County or agency $inspection$.
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Old 09-08-2019, 08:57 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Will they allow the use of ⅜ bentonite chips? That will be faster than pumping grout down the wells.
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Old 09-08-2019, 10:17 AM   #5 (permalink)
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What type of pump are grout pumps generally
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Old 09-08-2019, 10:38 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
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What type of pump are grout pumps generally
I would assume diaphragm on any kind of slurry.
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Old 09-08-2019, 10:44 AM   #7 (permalink)
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What type of pump are grout pumps generally
Ours is a progressive cavity pump it can build 300 psi deadhead but stops moving bentonite around 150 psi.
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Old 09-08-2019, 11:36 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Ours is a progressive cavity pump it can build 300 psi deadhead but stops moving bentonite around 150 psi.
Knew a guy that drilled and I would swear he said theirs was a piston pump of some type, but wasn't sure how that would work
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Old 09-08-2019, 11:41 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Knew a guy that drilled and I would swear he said theirs was a piston pump of some type, but wasn't sure how that would work
You are correct.

The grout pumps used with our drill rigs are all piston pumps. Never seen a diaphragm pump being used, anywhere. All the concrete pump trucks use piston driven pumps as well.


Top picture they are using a trailer mounted piston pump, Putzmeister brand, to move grout. Second picture the company was using a Schwing brand concrete pump truck, with piston pump to move grout.





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Old 09-08-2019, 11:45 AM   #10 (permalink)
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You are correct.



The grout pumps used with our drill rigs are all piston pumps. Never seen a diaphragm pump being used, anywhere.



All the concrete pump trucks use piston driven pumps as well.


Yeah
All I’ve seen the drillers use are hydraulic cylinder
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Old 09-08-2019, 11:47 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Our fleet at work uses Moyno pumps, bumper mounted on 3-axle work trucks. Building one, I don't think that's productive or cost effective. Probably buy a new pump for about 2X the cost of trying to build your own, and avoid the risk of having it not perform or fail. But, yeah, you could save a lot of money by DIY and not having the well driller destroy or "abandon" the wells. Your not in CA, fortunately, as a discrete well grout here requires a permit, a licensed well drilling contractor and of course, the County or agency $inspection$.


Not in Cali
We can just pour bentonite chips
That’s how we usually do it

Got a client that I think will want grout
But if not we will just dump the chips from a 50 lb bag

One site we used three pallets of bentonite bags
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Old 09-08-2019, 12:40 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Single or double acting piston pumps for tieback grout. Similar to the chemgrout cg500 series.
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Old 09-08-2019, 12:41 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I also have a project at my house where I need to fill some metal support posts with grout to add some strength because the poles are rusty in a couple spots

Thought about drilling a 3/4 or one inch hole at the top and pumping in grout
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Old 09-08-2019, 12:54 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Back in the day my dad used the 5x6 gardener denver mud pump on the rig to pump grout and neat cement. We have a smaller 3x4 gd pump the plan is to add a 200 gallon hopper to it for deep seals well abandonment or mixing thick quick gel to get gravel to wash out of the borehole.
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Old 09-08-2019, 01:35 PM   #15 (permalink)
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None of the pumps described here in any fashion lend themselves to being built by the user. Sounds like you are closing off construction de-watering wells. I guess it's a secret. Doesn't say if there is any water in the "wells" or how deep it is...... At any rate I don't think you will build your pump. FWIW the Moyno pumps are a screw inside a cylinder run by a hydraulic PTO. Not sure what "type" of pump that is but they are reliable and ideally suited to pumping heavy vis fluids and slurries. You don't need a piston pump for that. But whatever works Remember 2 and 4-inch holes guys. Chips in a 2-inch hole = bridging. If he does grout, it will be a 1-inch or .75-inch diameter PVC inside a 4-inch or 2-inch hole.
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Old 09-08-2019, 01:45 PM   #16 (permalink)
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None of the pumps described here in any fashion lend themselves to being built by the user. Sounds like you are closing off construction de-watering wells. I guess it's a secret. Doesn't say if there is any water in the "wells" or how deep it is...... At any rate I don't think you will build your pump. FWIW the Moyno pumps are a screw inside a cylinder run by a hydraulic PTO. Not sure what "type" of pump that is but they are reliable and ideally suited to pumping heavy vis fluids and slurries. You don't need a piston pump for that. But whatever works Remember 2 and 4-inch holes guys. Chips in a 2-inch hole = bridging. If he does grout, it will be a 1-inch or .75-inch diameter PVC inside a 4-inch or 2-inch hole.


We use moyno pumps to pump water out of the air water separator tanks from the subterranean vapor extraction
A regular centrifugal pump won’t pull water from a tank under vacuum
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Old 09-08-2019, 01:48 PM   #17 (permalink)
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None of the pumps described here in any fashion lend themselves to being built by the user. Sounds like you are closing off construction de-watering wells. I guess it's a secret. Doesn't say if there is any water in the "wells" or how deep it is...... At any rate I don't think you will build your pump. FWIW the Moyno pumps are a screw inside a cylinder run by a hydraulic PTO. Not sure what "type" of pump that is but they are reliable and ideally suited to pumping heavy vis fluids and slurries. You don't need a piston pump for that. But whatever works Remember 2 and 4-inch holes guys. Chips in a 2-inch hole = bridging. If he does grout, it will be a 1-inch or .75-inch diameter PVC inside a 4-inch or 2-inch hole.
I believe that the bentonite chips can be treated with ez mud to prevent bridging.
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Old 09-08-2019, 02:01 PM   #18 (permalink)
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The one that we use is this design with the positive displacement moyno screw rotor pump.
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Old 09-08-2019, 03:23 PM   #19 (permalink)
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A tow behind concrete pump would be what I'd try and get.

Could pump slurry with a peristaltic pump. That's easy to build.
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Old 09-08-2019, 03:39 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I believe that the bentonite chips can be treated with ez mud to prevent bridging.
Lol. Bridging seems to be what some geotech drillers want. Uses less chips and pays the same. No one will ever check anyhow.

Bentonite grout mix trimied to the bottom of the hole with a poly pipe is the way to be sure the hole is completely filled.

Just had a job that a contractor tried to abandon some horizontal drains using neat grout pumped from the collar. 1.5 inch pvc drains about 400 feet long and 100 ft of elevation head with 0.020 inch transverse slots. Guess what we found when we later cut the slope. “Seeps” that happen to have a half grout filled drain that didn’t even have grout get through the majority of the slots. Guess we know what won’t work for that any how.
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