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Old 09-09-2019, 12:45 PM   #51 (permalink)
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One would have thought that watching The Soviet Union getting it's ass kick in Afghanistan, would have been lesson enough not to go fucking around there...
That probably pisses me off more than anything...that and them laughing their asses off at us for doing it.
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Old 09-09-2019, 12:53 PM   #52 (permalink)
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Yup. Genie is out of the bottle. Winning of hearts and minds has never worked. All of the showers of flowers we got in WWII were from liberated countries that were allies. I'm pretty sure the Germans were not to happy to see us storming towards Berlin.
Hearts and minds works when the country is fundamentally the same, there were no shortage of Germans who hated the Nazis as much as anyone else.

Even then, look at the relationship we have with Japan today versus Imperial Japan. There's people in the mid east who have no problem with us as a country, the problem is we didn't learn the lesson most of Europe did over there. They're fundamentally different than the West in every aspect and have been at war for thousands of years. We had a fantastic relationship up to the Eisenhower admin with mid east countries because we didn't try to colonize and redraw boundaries without any regard for the tribes, ethnicities, ect that lived there. It wasn't until post-WWII when Eisenhower decided to lend military aid to the British oil industry that we started having problems and we just continually made things worse trying to one up the Russians. It's very likely had we just stayed the fuck out Russia would have just kept making things worse for themselves and that Islamist fundamentalist would be more focused on Russia today than the US.

If you're ever bored, read up on the rise of fundamental Islam. We picked a really shitty time to start meddling in the mid east and Europe largely left us high and dry after we dumped gas on a dumpster fire.
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Old 09-09-2019, 01:15 PM   #53 (permalink)
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One would have thought that watching The Soviet Union getting it's ass kick in Afghanistan, would have been lesson enough not to go fucking around there...
we helped get the Soviet Union's ass kicked mostly through Pakistans ISI, but probably Pillsbury supplying Afghans with stingers sealed the deal
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Old 09-09-2019, 01:32 PM   #54 (permalink)
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we helped get the Soviet Union's ass kicked mostly through Pakistans ISI, but probably Pillsbury supplying Afghans with stingers sealed the deal
We probably should have backed the Russians looking back, now we are fighting the same Islamic radicals as they were
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Old 09-09-2019, 02:14 PM   #55 (permalink)
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while that is an accurate synopsis, what good has the last 20 years done us in armed conflict in the middle east?

stopped a few terror attacks? maybe?
bred an entire generation of new islamic fighters that see us as invaders and murderers? certainly.
Almost light speed leaps in technology, software, and medical sciences comes to mind.

Leaps we would NOT have made without said 'armed conflict'

Once again proving you have no real grasp of the way the world really works, and live in some kind of safety bubble or something.
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Old 09-09-2019, 02:56 PM   #56 (permalink)
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Almost light speed leaps in technology, software, and medical sciences comes to mind.

Leaps we would NOT have made without said 'armed conflict'

Once again proving you have no real grasp of the way the world really works, and live in some kind of safety bubble or something.


says the man that thinks it's perfectly fine to kill half the world's populace based on ideology.
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Old 09-09-2019, 03:10 PM   #57 (permalink)
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The USA doesn't exactly have a great track record of actually exiting an area it has invaded. You don't get to 800+ military bases outside of your own lands because you'd rather go home and mind your own business.
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Old 09-09-2019, 03:10 PM   #58 (permalink)
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We probably should have backed the Russians looking back, now we are fighting the same Islamic radicals as they were
The difference is we armed, organized, and taught the same people how to fight.
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Old 09-09-2019, 03:24 PM   #59 (permalink)
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Look, I haven't been there and was never in the military so there's that, but the people that I've talked to that have been in the various sandboxes have said that they are so hamstrung by rules of engagement, that the bad guys just exploit that. The liberation of Kuwait was a singular episode in the that the Highway of Death was in the middle of nowhere, so our air power could tee off on them with no risk to locals. In the bombing of Germany and Japan no fucks were given as to civilian casualties, Dresden, Tokyo and other cities were burned to the ground. I'm not for genocide, but I'm definitively not for nation building either, especially when they don't want a nation, they want to live as tribes as they have always done. You want our help, fine, pick up the phone, but I don't remember getting invited into AFG or Iraq.

I don't think the current world political climate has much appetite for real war, it's all this proxy bullshit. We should have done what we did in Iraq and eliminated every last Iraqi that was over the border, then let them lick their wounds and see how much appetite they had to repeat.
the current afg government that we recognize and support as democratically elected, they want our help and have asked for it.

hamstrung rules not withstanding, afghanistan should have proven beyond a doubt that you cannot "team of operators" modify behavior in an entire country. operators may not think so, politicians certainly don't, but the reasonable conclusion is all or none. that has been known for eons.
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Old 09-09-2019, 06:47 PM   #60 (permalink)
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The difference is we armed, organized, and taught the same people how to fight.
Spain in the 1920s had a bunch of of colonial troubles in North Africa, with people who were barely out of the Bronze Age but stubbornly refused to be ruled by outsiders. Machine guns, tanks and being bombed from airplanes didn't help. Someone made the point that Spain had sent soldiers to Africa to fight warriors.
Quite applicable to Afghanistan. They live for this shit.
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Old 09-09-2019, 07:12 PM   #61 (permalink)
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says the man that thinks it's perfectly fine to kill half the world's populace based on ideology.
Ironic because of his ideologies, he'd be one of the first ones they killed. Funny how ignorance works.
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Old 09-09-2019, 07:16 PM   #62 (permalink)
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says the man that thinks it's perfectly fine to kill half the world's populace based on ideology.
You even fail at math. Holy fuck can you do ANYTHING at all right? I mean I have talked to some dumb people in my life but you, you take the cake.

2.5 of 7.5 is roughly 1/3 (a bit over) and no where near 1/2.

So let's see, you know nothing of how Terms of Service work. You have no grasp what so ever of advances in science and medicine. You can't even do basic math...

Why do you continue to use up resources again? What is it you think you offer anyone or anything on this planet beyond being a pile of shit on the same level as douchecanoe and The dipshit from San Diego?
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Old 09-09-2019, 07:23 PM   #63 (permalink)
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The Brits had a similar experience in Afghanistan in the early 1800s. They were afraid that Russia was going use Afghanistan as a springboard to threaten British India, so they decided to preemptively occupy the country.

They sent a large army that made it to Kabul unopposed and made quarters there. Unrest grew over time and the population rose against the occupying British troops, who were massacred, including all British civilians.

This pattern was repeated a couple more times, until the Brits decided to put the head of one of the rebel Afghani tribes as king, promising yearly payments if he kept order and told him they would send an army to kill people and break things if they misbehaved. It worked quite well. To the point that when the Indians rose against the Brits in 1857, Afghanistan didn't join the rebellion.

It is a shame that so much American blood and treasure has been wasted in that country.
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Old 09-09-2019, 07:32 PM   #64 (permalink)
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One would have thought that watching The Soviet Union getting it's ass kick in Afghanistan, would have been lesson enough not to go fucking around there...
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Old 09-09-2019, 07:41 PM   #65 (permalink)
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You even fail at math. Holy fuck can you do ANYTHING at all right? I mean I have talked to some dumb people in my life but you, you take the cake.

2.5 of 7.5 is roughly 1/3 (a bit over) and no where near 1/2.

So let's see, you know nothing of how Terms of Service work. You have no grasp what so ever of advances in science and medicine. You can't even do basic math...

Why do you continue to use up resources again? What is it you think you offer anyone or anything on this planet beyond being a pile of shit on the same level as douchecanoe and The dipshit from San Diego?
You fail at math too. 2.5 is exactly 1/3 of 7.5.
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Old 09-09-2019, 07:47 PM   #66 (permalink)
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Afghanistan

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Wilhelmine Germany was a constitutional monarchy, with a democratic parliament and an abnormally powerful head of state (the Kaiser). Weimar Republic was also a democracy, until the Nazis and communists destroyed it.

Japan had several decades of democracy that ended in the early 1930s.


Several decades is not a long history to me. A long history is north of 200 years. So they maybe had a brief history?

Edit the Weimar Republic was less than 2 decades...

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Old 09-09-2019, 08:02 PM   #67 (permalink)
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Several decades is not a long history to me. A long history is north of 200 years. So they maybe had a brief history?

Edit the Weimar Republic was less than 2 decades...

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The German states that merged in 1871 had a long history of self government and never had the absolute monarchies their European neighbors had in the previous two centuries.
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Old 09-09-2019, 09:05 PM   #68 (permalink)
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The German states that merged in 1871 had a long history of self government and never had the absolute monarchies their European neighbors had in the previous two centuries.
so basically, neither germany nor japan had a long history of unified and functional democracy of meaning prior to 1950?
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Old 09-09-2019, 09:25 PM   #69 (permalink)
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We need to GTFO of that 3rd world shithole.
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Old 09-10-2019, 05:56 AM   #70 (permalink)
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It's not about war. It's not about Bin Laden. It's not about ISIS. It's not about Al Queda.

It's always about money. Tell me why the US Geological Service is surveying Afghanistan. Those mineral deposits are primarily lithium. What do nearly all battery powered devices run on these day? Yep, lithium batteries. We aren't getting out of there anytime soon. Secondarily, don't even get into why CIA choppers are loaded down and flying out of there with product, too.

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A recently unearthed 2007 United States Geological Service survey appears to have discovered nearly $1 trillion in mineral deposits in Afghanistan, far beyond any previously known reserves and enough to fundamentally alter the Afghan economy and perhaps the Afghan war itself.
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This 11tybillion.

Sit down with China and Russia, and all come to an agreement to use that shit hole as a "testing ground" for new generation nukes.
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Because of that country I am forever a changed man. 15 years gone by and I am still lost. I pray everyday that I will wake up in the morning and I will be normal again. The only problem is that it doesn’t happen. As a result of this I struggle with major depression and suicidal tendencies. I wouldn’t lose a minute of sleep if that entire country disappeared. Never forget fallen brothers.
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One of the few issues the public isn’t divided on. But yet the military industrial complex talks every president into staying. One of the few things I thought trump would have done by now.

Get out.
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Why are we there again? Why can't Russia deal with it? Oh yea, we funded the talibans and the Russians had no chance hurhurhurhur.

Well we pulled all their funding just a bit before they piloted planes, so I say fuck them since then and GO.
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Old 09-10-2019, 06:13 AM   #71 (permalink)
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^ This guy gets it.



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Old 09-10-2019, 08:04 AM   #72 (permalink)
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It's not about war. It's not about Bin Laden. It's not about ISIS. It's not about Al Queda.

It's always about money. Tell me why the US Geological Service is surveying Afghanistan. Those mineral deposits are primarily lithium. What do nearly all battery powered devices run on these day? Yep, lithium batteries. We aren't getting out of there anytime soon. Secondarily, don't even get into why CIA choppers are loaded down and flying out of there with product, too.
Great documentary called “America’s war on drugs” honestly I was a bit naive and thought the shit I heard over the years was tin foil shit. Nope!!
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Old 09-10-2019, 09:32 AM   #73 (permalink)
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Great documentary called “America’s war on drugs” honestly I was a bit naive and thought the shit I heard over the years was tin foil shit. Nope!!
I haven't seen that one. I'm not sure that I want to see it. Knowing what I know pisses me off enough.
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Old 09-10-2019, 09:55 AM   #74 (permalink)
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https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/fe...111748895.html

al jazeera had a different article but i can't quite find it. the number 2 or 3 source of funding for 'taliban groups' behind the drug trade is illegal mining.

mining is also a great opportunity that is being hamstrung as well. hell even if they allowed american (or others, but fuck e'erybody else) companies to consult, secure and oversee operations. the benefit paid to the afghan govt for extraction, the jobs created around the industry and the security provided to the outlying regions would be substantial. there is more money in peace. sure, it ain't oil money, but it is still substantial

IF they could get their shit together, but they don't see interested in that
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Old 09-10-2019, 09:59 AM   #75 (permalink)
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You even fail at math. Holy fuck can you do ANYTHING at all right? I mean I have talked to some dumb people in my life but you, you take the cake.

2.5 of 7.5 is roughly 1/3 (a bit over) and no where near 1/2.

So let's see, you know nothing of how Terms of Service work. You have no grasp what so ever of advances in science and medicine. You can't even do basic math...

Why do you continue to use up resources again? What is it you think you offer anyone or anything on this planet beyond being a pile of shit on the same level as douchecanoe and The dipshit from San Diego?
oh I'm sorry that I got your genocidal plans wrong, as I generally dismiss them as complete lunacy.

as for the terms of service thing, you still haven't answered how a contract between google and yourself over app data gives the federal government access to that data.

and as proven in court, time and time again, it doesn't.
see apple protecting a terrorists phone
or google fighting national security letters.
https://publicpolicy.googleblog.com/...ore-light.html


the agreement was between you and the company,not the government's great big spying machine.

so explain it then.
real fucking clear, as I am obviously a fucking moron.
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