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Old 11-18-2019, 05:58 PM   #26 (permalink)
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I never said this was about financial freedom. But you miss out on 100% of the chances you never take.
.
And if a MLB player has any length of career and strikes out 2 out of 3 times, he's going to the Hall of Fame...every...fucking...time.

Too many people are so afraid of failure they just give up, and take the easy/secure government job, or cog in the wheel.
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Old 11-18-2019, 06:03 PM   #27 (permalink)
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In my field all the "carpenters" want their own businesses so they don't have to pay the tax man. I don't blame them for that but someone has got to foot the bill. I just wish they would pay their fair share. I know they are cheating the system by not claiming hardly any, if any at all, of the money they make.

I need a sugar momma
The tax system is setup to incentivize the creation of businesses.

You really don't. You might have to live in a travel trailer for 2 years, or your office for 6 months and build your rock crawler out of the junk pile.
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Old 11-18-2019, 06:06 PM   #28 (permalink)
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A big problem I see these days are equity groups. Dude starts and builds a business and when he's ready to retire or otherwise cash out an equity group buys it. Often they don't know shit about the industry of their new acquisition, so all they're interested in doing is getting the EBITA numbers up and they flip it. And they way they often get those numbers up is by cutting payroll and/or benefits.
It's absolutely a problem. I've seen it in every industry I've been involved in. In my current industry, we're about to see it with Canidae dog food. Their head of sales who had been with them from the beginning and built it from nothing walked out the door last week.

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Old 11-18-2019, 06:11 PM   #29 (permalink)
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I think a lot of it is the education to actually start a business is not generally taught.

Knowing how to build a real business plan, run the finances for it, finance it in the first place and so on.

While this is easier to learn these days, most people would not even know where to start, so they don't.

That said, we do need larger corporations to fund technology advances and push through large projects. Not everybody can have a small business by them selves, they need to hire some people here and there.

Small business is not going to build a freeway but it could get your driveway fixed.
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Old 11-18-2019, 06:16 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Edit: read your above post just now and I agree. How do we go back?

What exactly do you think will be achieved by more people attempting to start thier own buisness? Just because it is the harder path doesnt always make it the better one.
It's hard to contextualize something you've never experienced. But being a SMALL business owner gives you the responsibility of providing the living wages and guidance to your employees. You are an active participant in your local economy. You have real influence in your community. You are networked into the business landscape of your industry. You are a vital participant in the capitalist system.

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A big problem I see these days are equity groups. Dude starts and builds a business and when he's ready to retire or otherwise cash out an equity group buys it. Often they don't know shit about the industry of their new acquisition, so all they're interested in doing is getting the EBITA numbers up and they flip it. And they way they often get those numbers up is by cutting payroll and/or benefits.
Huge problem. One I believe is only profitable because of cheap debt.

I do not believe in capitalism being grown or built off credit. I think credit is a useful tool in business. But you should never run a higher debt load to your asset balance. It should be 1:1 at the very most. This system that allows 10:1 asset to debt loads is unsustainable and is destroying the value perception. In the course of doing that it erodes the fundamentals of what people value in life, what they seek with their time and how they apply their efforts.
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Old 11-18-2019, 06:23 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Huge problem. One I believe is only profitable because of cheap debt.
.
That's why they want to flip the business, they don't want to pay interest for a long term.

The company I work for is owned by one guy, no board of directors, no shareholders and he owns the buildings, the land the buildings is on, the machinery we use to manufacture our products, and all the inventory. He doesn't owe banks one cent, so he's never under pressure to make a sale at less than good profit just to turn the dollars. It's a rare company that still exists like that.
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Me and my co driver were running across the Lakebed on our way to pre run when we saw :gary: walking his dog.

We didn't stop to say hi cause he's a fucking douchebag.
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Old 11-18-2019, 06:24 PM   #32 (permalink)
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AF read another book, it would seem


Soon he'll discover Hinduism, travel to India and become a guru.
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Old 11-18-2019, 06:29 PM   #33 (permalink)
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I think a lot of it is the education to actually start a business is not generally taught.

Knowing how to build a real business plan, run the finances for it, finance it in the first place and so on.

While this is easier to learn these days, most people would not even know where to start, so they don't.

That said, we do need larger corporations to fund technology advances and push through large projects. Not everybody can have a small business by them selves, they need to hire some people here and there.

Small business is not going to build a freeway but it could get your driveway fixed.
I would like to know what people spend more time doing:

1) thinking about what to spend their money on.

2) thinking about what their capital barriers are and how to put their savings to use for their future to conquer those barriers.

I know the answer. But it's a question people should contemplate. You're totally right in your astute perception. It's totally an education issue. People don't have useful skills that are valuable in the marketplace or they don't know how to apply those skills even if they have them.

People should be using gainful employment as a means to learn skills, and save capital while they educate themselves about the system of capitalism from a technical side.

Like you said, it is easier than ever. There are books. Even audiobooks. There are podcasts. There are free videos. There are apps and services dedicated to cheap and even free education in almost every deficiency someone might have.

But like we established earlier. People are lazy and distracted by comfort. It's easier to seek entertainment than to struggle through growth.
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Old 11-18-2019, 06:30 PM   #34 (permalink)
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That's why they want to flip the business, they don't want to pay interest for a long term.

The company I work for is owned by one guy, no board of directors, no shareholders and he owns the buildings, the land the buildings is on, the machinery we use to manufacture our products, and all the inventory. He doesn't owe banks one cent, so he's never under pressure to make a sale at less than good profit just to turn the dollars. It's a rare company that still exists like that.
We really need more businesses like that again. Ethical businesses that aren't forced to fuck people over to cover their debt obligations.
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Old 11-18-2019, 06:39 PM   #35 (permalink)
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We agree on a lot. However I see a few of your points differently.
I'll take a boom build on debt over one built on raw capital every time. every time.

that is the risk vs the reward. sure, you can do it slow and pay cash and be totally debt adverse. it is doable but the buy in is MUCH higher and the timeframe is MUCH longer. you will simply never hit the growth (reward) that comes with leveraging debt (risk).

yes, those booms did bust. each time it was 'the end of the world' or 'the end of the middle class'. the reality is that they simply represented the 'end of the world as we know it' and anybody who can't accept that the world of today is different than 10 years ago Is different than 10 years in the future will be stuck outside of growth.

being outside of growth isn't the worst thing, on a personal level, but it certainly isn't a good macro policy. access to debt being a long proven, even before the modern banking system, route to accelerating growth is fundamental to small business.

in the same vein that vertical cities and massive commercial farms are an ideal solution for dealing with exploding population, folks working those cog jobs are also great.

we don't have enough land for everybody to get 40 acres and a mule, if we tried then not all those 40 acres would be sustainable. similarly, not everybody can be successful as a sole prop. providing services.

wealth gap is a false problem looking for made up solutions. monopolies are a market failure, wealth gap is not.
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Old 11-18-2019, 06:41 PM   #36 (permalink)
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We really need more businesses like that again. Ethical businesses that aren't forced to fuck people over to cover their debt obligations.
this statement is the epitome of the wrong mindset.
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Old 11-18-2019, 06:41 PM   #37 (permalink)
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The number of people clinging to government and corporate America as their saviors has become increasingly popular and it's killing the future of capitalism.
Without corporations and government, my small business wouldnt exist.

Quit bitching about it and use other folks shortfalls to your advantage.
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Old 11-18-2019, 06:43 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Do you ever wonder if your human potential isn't greater than an 8 hour day at a job you obviously don't like?
some fight club shit.....

to other people why should they work a 12+ hour day to work for themselves, blah blah....

I don't agree or disagree but I see the point....
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Old 11-18-2019, 06:54 PM   #39 (permalink)
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I'll take a boom build on debt over one built on raw capital every time. every time.

that is the risk vs the reward. sure, you can do it slow and pay cash and be totally debt adverse. it is doable but the buy in is MUCH higher and the timeframe is MUCH longer. you will simply never hit the growth (reward) that comes with leveraging debt (risk).

yes, those booms did bust. each time it was 'the end of the world' or 'the end of the middle class'. the reality is that they simply represented the 'end of the world as we know it' and anybody who can't accept that the world of today is different than 10 years ago Is different than 10 years in the future will be stuck outside of growth.

being outside of growth isn't the worst thing, on a personal level, but it certainly isn't a good macro policy. access to debt being a long proven, even before the modern banking system, route to accelerating growth is fundamental to small business.

in the same vein that vertical cities and massive commercial farms are an ideal solution for dealing with exploding population, folks working those cog jobs are also great.

we don't have enough land for everybody to get 40 acres and a mule, if we tried then not all those 40 acres would be sustainable. similarly, not everybody can be successful as a sole prop. providing services.

wealth gap is a false problem looking for made up solutions. monopolies are a market failure, wealth gap is not.
I'm going to disagree more with these points than your previous post.

I don't have a problem with debt as a whole. Like I said, I believe debt should be a 1:1 ratio. I believe indentured servitude is actually a good system if used ethically. I don't believe debt insured by a military to fictitiously grow technologies at a pace so fast that we can't even effectively adjust to them has been our best course of action.

My problem isn't with books or busts. What's interesting is those busts are actually hugely beneficial to companies who run with cash reserves. Busts are great opportunities for those who are stable. This is where the system of competition comes to benefit the free market. If you've been reckless or overambitious you will be taught a valuable lesson.

I don't know why we've moved to the idea that cities are bad or that everyone needs 40 acres and a mule.

Whether it's a false problem or not, the policy changes the argument has on the table are real.
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Old 11-18-2019, 06:55 PM   #40 (permalink)
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some fight club shit.....

to other people why should they work a 12+ hour day to work for themselves, blah blah....

I don't agree or disagree but I see the point....
Why should a 12 hour day feel like work? Why do something you wouldn't willingly do for your own enjoyment or sense of accomplishment?
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Old 11-18-2019, 07:00 PM   #41 (permalink)
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this statement is the epitome of the wrong mindset.
I don't necessarily think I understand what you mean. Maybe you worded your statement wrong. Are you saying I'm of the wrong mindset for making that statement?

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Without corporations and government, my small business wouldnt exist.

Quit bitching about it and use other folks shortfalls to your advantage.
I never said I was anti-government or anti-corporation. What I am is pro-limited government and pro-self-sufficiency.

I don't want to take advantage. I want to see others do great things and see my country prosper as a result.
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Old 11-18-2019, 07:04 PM   #42 (permalink)
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What it needs is a tax break. Fuck the rest of the bullshit.
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Old 11-18-2019, 07:04 PM   #43 (permalink)
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I don't know why we've moved to the idea that cities are bad or that everyone needs 40 acres and a mule.

Whether it's a false problem or not, the policy changes the argument has on the table are real.
40 acres and a mule being a reference for what was determined to be 'fair' reparation's for slavery postbellum, providing equality and ownership to the slaves.

cities being analogous to working a lifetime as a mindless office employee for a mid to large sized business.

ownership of business is regularly in renaissance, but as the population grows there is simply a higher number of people who will want nothing more than to be a battery and there isn't enough 'work' for everybody to be a sole prop. it lacks in macro efficiency.

ever hear of micro brew beer? those places are likely still in a boom. the amount of the American economy that is small business is generally stable.

I guess i'm just not sure what kind of renaissance you would like to see and where you see it lacking substantially


yes, the policy changes and potential are real, but you said earlier that you didn't want this to devolve into a 'small vs big government' thread Obviously if a person supports the notion of liberty and self direction, they require smaller rather than bigger government. if they disagree, then they are a fool and worthy of berating
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Old 11-18-2019, 07:05 PM   #44 (permalink)
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The tax system is setup to incentivize the creation of businesses.
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Me and my co driver were running across the Lakebed on our way to pre run when we saw :gary: walking his dog.

We didn't stop to say hi cause he's a fucking douchebag.
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Old 11-18-2019, 07:08 PM   #45 (permalink)
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The tax system is setup to incentivize the creation of businesses.
Just stop. Your obvious lack of knowledge is showing. This is the most ridiculous thing youíve parroted in a while.
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Old 11-18-2019, 07:09 PM   #46 (permalink)
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First debt is capital. Overall assets are offset by expense and liabilities to make net worth.
Second, i own my business and am paid to speak at plenty of conferences on business philosophies and management.
Entrepreneurs are part fo what has made America great. They are the ones that are willing to take on million dollar liabilities in order to make a profit. They are also the ones that employ the vast majority of Americans. The problem is, not everyone is cut out to own a business. Some people just don’t have the ability to understand the finances, some don’t know how to lead, some just want to do their eight and go home. All of them have valid reasons to not own their own business. What I don’t understand is the people who refuse to better themselves. Anymore, many people just want to do enough to get by, and not progress. I think that is a much bigger pitfall than not owning a business. How can someone work 40 years putting a particular bolt on a fender in a factory, and not try something new? It blows my mind!

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Old 11-18-2019, 07:10 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Exactly so what exactly are you arguing?
that it's a shame there aren't more awesome, woke people such as him.

You know, the same as he usually argues
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Old 11-18-2019, 07:16 PM   #48 (permalink)
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We really need more businesses like that again. Ethical businesses that aren't forced to fuck people over to cover their debt obligations.
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I don't necessarily think I understand what you mean. Maybe you worded your statement wrong. Are you saying I'm of the wrong mindset for making that statement?
no, I think I worded it correctly, unless we disagree on what the point is we are talking about

yes, I think that the concept that 'a business' (could be any of them) is 'forced' to do a fucking thing, but especially 'fuck people over' to 'cover their debt' is 100% wrong.

implications being:

1) people don't have a choice in their actions

2) market derived price points are intended to screw over consumers

3) debt is derogatory

all of those are negative stereotypes for business' and arguments used FOR increased oversight/government/transaction barriers.

it doesn't matter if the guy is charging 10% more than the competition, hell it doesn't matter if he is using his profits to buy cocaine. does he pay his employees more than market because he doesn't need to make rent payments? does he sell his products low so that he doesn't take any more money out of the business more than he needs for food monthly?

his ownership of the full system is not ethical or unethical. same thing as Amazon buying up a fleet of airplanes to control their own logistics, or KFC buying chicken farms to grow their beakless birds with 8 wings.

those could easily be spun off and he could support another small business by paying rent
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Old 11-18-2019, 07:17 PM   #49 (permalink)
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What it needs is a tax break. Fuck the rest of the bullshit.
I do agree. But the bulk of taxes are paid by income maid by employees.

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I guess i'm just not sure what kind of renaissance you would like to see and where you see it lacking substantially
More people embrace the quote I started the tread with. From there, allow capitalism to flourish rather than continue being stifled.

I disagree that small business ownership is a stable trend. I believe it's been on a large decline for several decades.
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Old 11-18-2019, 07:18 PM   #50 (permalink)
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First debt is capital. Overall assets are offset by expense and liabilities to make net worth.
Second, i own my business and am paid to speak at plenty of conferences on business philosophies and management.
Entrepreneurs are part fo what has made America great. They are the ones that are willing to take on million dollar liabilities in order to make a profit. They are also the ones that employ the vast majority of Americans. The problem is, not everyone is cut out to own a business. Some people just donít have the ability to understand the finances, some donít know how to lead, some just want to do their eight and go home. All of them have valid reasons to not own their own business. What I donít understand is the people who refuse to better themselves. Anymore, many people just want to do enough to get by, and not progress. I think that is a much bigger pitfall than not owning a business. How can someone work 40 years putting a particular bolt on a fender in a factory, and hot try something new? It blows my mind!
when life is about more than your job, your job matters less
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