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Old 01-18-2020, 06:57 PM   #501 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by RedPurdueYJ View Post
Call it misguided faith that some people will see shit for what it is.

THIS is the time to take a stand. Counties have drawn a line, whether they know it or not, by claiming themselves sanctuaries.

If they fold, we are a nation of pussies not worth saving.

Either way it goes, gun owners will be demonized by the media, so they arent worth worrying about.

So that just leaves violence as the only thing to worry about. Ideally none is exhibited. If it is, you HAVE to make the state the first to resort to violence, or your movement is dead from the start.

And it has to be in such a way that the people attacked by the state are not portrayed as just a few crazies.

This could be a turning point in U.S. history. But it seems the same old stupid fucking tactics are being used. Chest puffing and other bullshit.

The leadership in virginia has made it QUITE clear they have no intention of listening to responsible gun owners. Rather than creating a platform to listen to their constituents, they have stripped them of rights and barricaded the capital.

If there isnt a clearer sign of tyranny and a reason to push your county to make due on their promises to be a sanctuary and leave a state controlled by a tyrannical government, then I question if Virginians even value their rights.
You're right, NOW is the time to draw a line in the sand, leaving it to courts and "laws" which have been proven in the last few years if not decades, to be a joke. Obamacare was upheld, They impeached Trump cus they didn't like him, the patriot act denying people of our God given rights, etc..much like in 1776 there have been numerous reasons for this fight to start, and if they lay down and take it, it's over. We're done. Precedence is set.
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Old 01-18-2020, 06:58 PM   #502 (permalink)
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Republicans like to grow government as much as the dems. They just do it slightly differently.
Very true.
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Old 01-18-2020, 07:04 PM   #503 (permalink)
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It's either going to be done in the courts and legislation or it's going to be a bloodbath. A few nuts here and there won't mean shit. Yeah, there are a lot of people mad and a lot of people "drawing lines" but it doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things because it's 30 over there, 15 over here, another 60 over there and I heard there were 100 out that way, etc. To make an actual fight that would establish a true line and make everyone drop what they are doing and pay attention it will take tens of thousands. The few hundred here and there protesting for the 2nd, a couple hundred more protesting for "rights" and a few hundred more protesting just because they want to take on the US Government and "the Feds" will not mean shit and will not get shit accomplished. It will take an organized group of 25k or more, all ready to give up their jobs, their families, their homes and actually do war on the State of Virginia, and in turn the US Government. Do you know tens of thousands willing to do that? Are you ready to throw away everything you have worked for and most likely give up your life for this? If not, then don't bitch when no one else does either. Unless there is some catalyst, some happening that would cement everyone together and everyone fall in line behind the same cause and the same leaders, then this is all just chest puffing and bullshit, but it's about all anyone can reasonably expect at this point.
You're absolutely right, this line in the sand will be a deciding point. Just as it was for our nation's founders. They gave up security and safety, their lives and families and fortunes for the cause of freedom, and we're at that moment again, I know a lot of people with families and fortunes that would be ruined by this if it goes full tilt, but i have no such concerns..I happen to be a transition phase in my life, no wife, kids, love my job for the first time in my life, but if it goes down in Virginia I'd go there and fight alongside them, and if need be, die with them. I've felt it, i think we all have here in pirate because despite differences i think we're all somewhat like minded in here to some degree. We've all known this moment has been coming, I'd hoped i wouldn't live to see it, but it may well be here, and if so, yes, I'd get off the porch.
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Old 01-18-2020, 07:08 PM   #504 (permalink)
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the war on drugs
the patriot act
civil asset forfeiture

pick one.
I missed the part of the bill of rights that talks about drugs. Have a hard time picturing George Washington looking out to make sure everyone can shoot heroin in front of preschools. That said, I agree it's BS and is played by the Rs moreso than Ds. Yet it's impact on life in general is much less significant than the other items on the table here. If you can't do drugs, boohoo. Not like you can compare that to guns or freedom of speech or religion.

Patriot act was both sides, as was civil forfeiture. We're focusing on exclusive things here.

So, back to square 1, what bill of rights do the Rs attack?
Dems: Freedom speech/hate crimes. Say "N word", go to jail. Bake cake or else.
Dems: Freedom of guns. Mags, etc, go to jail.

Your turn.

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Old 01-18-2020, 07:29 PM   #505 (permalink)
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Hell the dems banned straws and big gulps. If that doesnt tell you something in and of itself then there is no hope for you.

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Old 01-19-2020, 05:28 AM   #506 (permalink)
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I missed the part of the bill of rights that talks about drugs. Have a hard time picturing George Washington looking out to make sure everyone can shoot heroin in front of preschools. That said, I agree it's BS and is played by the Rs moreso than Ds. Yet it's impact on life in general is much less significant than the other items on the table here. If you can't do drugs, boohoo. Not like you can compare that to guns or freedom of speech or religion.

Patriot act was both sides, as was civil forfeiture. We're focusing on exclusive things here.

So, back to square 1, what bill of rights do the Rs attack?
Dems: Freedom speech/hate crimes. Say "N word", go to jail. Bake cake or else.
Dems: Freedom of guns. Mags, etc, go to jail.

Your turn.
Your ridiculous hyperbole aside, the drug war has been a complete and utter failure and more often than not has been used as an excuse to circumvent the bill of rights.

Don't want illegal search and seizure? Well now the cops smell weed and have probable cause. Have cash you legitimately earned? Well now the cops are taking it because it's suspicious and they get to keep it through civil asset forfeiture circumventing due process.

The war on drugs has become little more than a convenient excuse to search and seize whatever the cops want without a warrant.
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Old 01-19-2020, 05:44 AM   #507 (permalink)
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Your ridiculous hyperbole aside, the drug war has been a complete and utter failure and more often than not has been used as an excuse to circumvent the bill of rights.

Don't want illegal search and seizure? Well now the cops smell weed and have probable cause. Have cash you legitimately earned? Well now the cops are taking it because it's suspicious and they get to keep it through civil asset forfeiture circumventing due process.

The war on drugs has become little more than a convenient excuse to search and seize whatever the cops want without a warrant.
Very true....But at the same time I don't believe no drug laws, and I suppose alcohol laws is a good idea...I have no clue how to deal with it...
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Old 01-19-2020, 06:29 AM   #508 (permalink)
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I missed the part of the bill of rights that talks about drugs. Have a hard time picturing George Washington looking out to make sure everyone can shoot heroin in front of preschools. That said, I agree it's BS and is played by the Rs moreso than Ds. Yet it's impact on life in general is much less significant than the other items on the table here. If you can't do drugs, boohoo. Not like you can compare that to guns or freedom of speech or religion.

Patriot act was both sides, as was civil forfeiture. We're focusing on exclusive things here.

So, back to square 1, what bill of rights do the Rs attack?
Dems: Freedom speech/hate crimes. Say "N word", go to jail. Bake cake or else.
Dems: Freedom of guns. Mags, etc, go to jail.

Your turn.
the war on drugs has eviscerated the 4th amendment

and what precedent do you think will be used to go door to door and seize firearms?

this one.
https://www.cato.org/publications/co...gs-bill-rights

because now the 4th amendment doesn't apply if you have illegal property.
because "omg drugs" republicans and the conservative members of the supreme court.

Obama used executive action to limit asset forfeiture.
republicans reinstated it.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...-civil/534168/

your response is telling.
"Where does it say in the constitution that you can do drugs"

The constitution doesn't grant rights, it restricts the government. Constantly justifying side stepping it because something isn't explicitly definedin it is how we got here. the war on drugs is providing all of the precedents in the court system for everything else, because it's been here the longest.

the question you should be asking is "Why does the government get a say in what someone puts in their body"
they don't.
any other answer is a a bullshit justification to use "public welfare" (like your already mentioned hypothetical scenario) as an excuse to do anything else too, like banning assault rifles.
after all, those aren't specifically mentioned in the constitution either.
Oh wait, isn't that one of the arguments that anti gun people make?
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Old 01-19-2020, 06:36 AM   #509 (permalink)
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Very true....But at the same time I don't believe no drug laws, and I suppose alcohol laws is a good idea...I have no clue how to deal with it...
it doesn't matter what you believe.

it matters what you have the right to tell other people to do.

and you don't.
it's that fucking simple.

You don't get to use the government to tell dirty hippies that they can't use drugs, and inversely they don't get to use it to restrict things like guns.


if everyone stopped trying to implement their pet agendas pushing morality, nobody would be having the conversations we're having about how the government violates citizens daily on all fronts.
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Old 01-19-2020, 07:22 AM   #510 (permalink)
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it doesn't matter what you believe.

it matters what you have the right to tell other people to do.

and you don't.
it's that fucking simple.

You don't get to use the government to tell dirty hippies that they can't use drugs, and inversely they don't get to use it to restrict things like guns.


if everyone stopped trying to implement their pet agendas pushing morality, nobody would be having the conversations we're having about how the government violates citizens daily on all fronts.
In a country of 340 million people with about 250 million diverse adults, your utopian ideals of no drug laws will lead to more of what's happened in SF and Seattle....A fucking mess ....
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Old 01-19-2020, 07:38 AM   #511 (permalink)
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In a country of 340 million people with about 250 million diverse adults, your utopian ideals of no drug laws will lead to more of what's happened in SF and Seattle....A fucking mess ....
lol.

not if you stopped enabling their lifestyle with welfare programs keeping them alive, and putting narcan in every police car.


let them die.

it's not the government's business to look after your welfare either.

but for those that are all "you can't just let them kill themselves" because of some moral qualms, if you ended the war on drugs and started treating the issue as a health one and not a criminal one, we'd probably get a lot further.
putting people in cages surely isn't working very well, as the drugs have obviously won the war.

and you're still justifying infringments based on some prception of need for public safety, the exact argument made to restrict firearms.

If you're pro war on drugs and pr 2a, you are a hypocrite. The same arguments made to justify the infringements for the drug war are also the same ones that are being used to justify the infringements for guns.
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Old 01-19-2020, 08:00 AM   #512 (permalink)
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Just OD already so we don't have to watch every thread remotely related to the government turned into a rehash of all this bullshit over and over again.
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Old 01-19-2020, 08:10 AM   #513 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by 87manche View Post
it doesn't matter what you believe.

it matters what you have the right to tell other people to do.

and you don't.
it's that fucking simple.

You don't get to use the government to tell dirty hippies that they can't use drugs, and inversely they don't get to use it to restrict things like guns.


if everyone stopped trying to implement their pet agendas pushing morality, nobody would be having the conversations we're having about how the government violates citizens daily on all fronts.
Don’t waste your time on him. He is a big government statist.

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In a country of 340 million people with about 250 million diverse adults, your utopian ideals of no drug laws will lead to more of what's happened in SF and Seattle....A fucking mess ....
The problem in SF isn’t the drug laws. They need to enforce the laws against stealing, shitting on the streets, etc.

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lol.

not if you stopped enabling their lifestyle with welfare programs keeping them alive, and putting narcan in every police car.


let them die.

it's not the government's business to look after your welfare either.

but for those that are all "you can't just let them kill themselves" because of some moral qualms, if you ended the war on drugs and started treating the issue as a health one and not a criminal one, we'd probably get a lot further.
putting people in cages surely isn't working very well, as the drugs have obviously won the war.

and you're still justifying infringments based on some prception of need for public safety, the exact argument made to restrict firearms.

If you're pro war on drugs and pr 2a, you are a hypocrite. The same arguments made to justify the infringements for the drug war are also the same ones that are being used to justify the infringements for guns.
Yep.
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Old 01-19-2020, 08:17 AM   #514 (permalink)
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Just OD already so we don't have to watch every thread remotely related to the government turned into a rehash of all this bullshit over and over again.
you first.


I'm sorry that the war on drugs is a prevalent subject when we start talking about how far we've let the government abuse the constitution.

maybe it always comes up because people are fucking hypocrites that think drug users shouldn't be allowed to put what they want in their bodies, while arguing that their property is protected?

If you think your property should be protected from the government, don't you think that your body should be too? to do with as you please?

basic human rights to your own person is what we're talking about here.
do try and follow along.
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Old 01-19-2020, 08:24 AM   #515 (permalink)
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How much truth to this do you think there is?

https://www.lsgr.live/post/shocking-...y-day-gun-rall

If the latest revelations by a Virginian legislator are anything to go by, pro-gun groups have a lot to worry about. According to Sen. Amanda Chase of District 11, the stage has been set for the string of events that will take place during the rally.



Governor Ralph Northam has already declared a state of emergency after implementing a firearms’ ban in the Capitol and a total weapons’ bans during the rally. However, this is just the beginning of the things to come.



By declaring a state of emergency, Governor Northam has activated the Patriot Act and the National Defense Authorization Act. These laws create the necessary conditions for the declaration of the Second Amendment movement as domestic terrorists. This would give the governor the much-needed justification for a violent crackdown on second amendment groups, militias, and those wearing military camouflage.



“They are kicking things into high gear,” Ms. Chase wrote. “Military veterans are even listed as potential domestic terrorists.”

With the current state of affairs in the state and the governor’s actions, it is difficult to ignore such a dire warning. All it takes to trigger the events is just a single person. The heavy police presence, barricades, and the current state of emergency could also trigger mass hysteria leading to ugly clashes. There is no guarantee that anti-gun groups could trigger such events to make a point about gun rights.



The situation in Virginia is escalating daily and the only hope is that the will of the people will prevail.
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Old 01-19-2020, 09:16 AM   #516 (permalink)
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what do you mean how much truth?

it's all the truth.

I said 20 years ago when the patriot act passed that at some point anyone that opposed the government would be labeled a terrorist.

now, do they choose to do that? I don't know, seems like it would be aqfully unpopular and possibly political suicide.

but it is an option for the government to do a nice end around on your rights, and that should be enough to make anyone mad.
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Old 01-19-2020, 09:26 AM   #517 (permalink)
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if everyone stopped trying to implement their pet agendas pushing morality, nobody would be having the conversations we're having about how the government violates citizens daily on all fronts.
This is the crutch of the matter right there. People need to BUTT THE FUCK OUT of other people's lives. Both sides, conservative & liberal, think they have the right to restrict/deny people's rights. That's utter bullshit.
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Old 01-19-2020, 09:35 AM   #518 (permalink)
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but the R's aren't stealing muh rights!!!!

https://reason.com/2020/01/16/family...h1XRqpR76gYPfM

sure seems like they violated this guy to the tune of his life savings.
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Terrence Rolin kept his life savings in a Tupperware container, but all that money now belongs to the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA), even though the 79-year-old retired railroad engineer hasn't been charged with a crime.

When Rolin's daughter, Rebecca Brown, tried to take her fathers' savings—$82,373 in cash—on an airplane, a DEA agent seized it simply because large amounts of cash are considered suspicious by the agency.

Brown and Rolin are now the lead plaintiffs in a federal class-action lawsuit filed Wednesday by the Institute for Justice, a libertarian-leaning public interest law firm, challenging the DEA and TSA's practice of seizing large amounts of cash from airline passengers without any evidence of any underlying crime.

"Flying with any amount of cash is completely legal, but once again we see government agents treating American citizens like criminals," Institute for Justice senior attorney Dan Alban said in a press release. "You don't forfeit your constitutional rights when you try to board an airplane. It is time for TSA and federal law enforcement to stop seizing cash from travelers simply because the government considers certain amounts of cash 'suspicious.'"

Rolin and Brown's trouble started last August. Rolin had asked his daughter to take his money and open a joint savings account, the Washington Post reports:

Rebecca Brown was catching a flight home from the Pittsburgh airport early the next day and said she didn't have time to stop at a bank. She confirmed on a government website that it's legal to carry any amount of cash on a domestic flight and tucked the money in her carry-on.

But just minutes before departure in late August, a Drug Enforcement Administration agent met her at the busy gate and questioned her about the cash, which showed up on a security scan. He insisted Brown put Rolin on the phone to confirm her story. Brown said Rolin, who is suffering mental decline, was unable to verify some details.

"He just handed me the phone and said, 'Your stories don't match,'" Brown recalled the agent saying. "'We're seizing the cash.'"

The DEA then notified Brown that it was seeking to permanently forfeit Rolin's life savings. Neither Rolin or Brown have been charged with a crime.

In the meantime, the lawsuit says the loss of Rolin's savings has left him unable to fix his truck, which is his primary means of transportation, or get needed dental work.

"My father and his parents worked hard for this money, and the government shouldn't be able to reach into his pocket and take it," Brown said a press release. "We did nothing wrong and haven't been charged with any crime, yet the DEA is trying to take my father's life savings. His savings should be returned right away, and the government should stop taking money from Americans who are doing something completely legal."

In cases like Brown's, the DEA seizes cash using civil asset forfeiture, a practice that allows police to seize cash and property suspected of being connected to criminal activity, even if the owner is not charged with a crime.

Federal, state, and local law enforcement seize millions of dollars in cash every year in drug interdiction operations, much of being transported along highways and through airports. In 2016, a USA Today investigation found the DEA seized more than $209 million from at least 5,200 travelers in 15 major airports over the previous decade.

Police groups say civil forfeiture is a vital tool that allows them to disrupt drug trafficking by targeting its illicit proceeds.

However, civil liberties groups say there are few safeguards to protect innocent owners, who bear the burden of challenging the seizure to get their property back.

The Institute for Justice lawsuit claims the DEA has a practice or policy of seizing currency from travelers at U.S. airports without probable cause simply if the dollar amount is greater than $5,000. This practice, the suit argues, violates travelers' Fourth Amendment rights.

In 2016, Reason profiled the case of Charles Clarke, a college student who was robbed of $11,000 dollars at the Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky International Airport by a local police officer who was deputized by the DEA. The officer claimed Clarke's suitcase smelled like marijuana, although no drugs were found in it. Clarke, helped by the Institute for Justice, got his money back in an agreement with the Justice Department.

A 2017 report by the Justice Department Inspector General found that the DEA seized more than $4 billion in cash from people suspected of drug activity over the previous decade, but $3.2 billion of those seizures were never connected to any criminal charges.

The report reviewed 100 cash seizures and found that only 44 of those were connected to or advanced a criminal investigation. The majority of seizures occurred in airports, train stations, and bus terminals, where the DEA regularly snoops on travel records and maintains a network of travel industry employees who act as confidential informants.

A 2016 Justice Department Inspector General report chastised the DEA for recruiting a TSA screener as an informant and promising the screener a cut of the proceeds from forfeited cash that he discovered.

A DEA spokesperson, per the agency's policy, declined to comment on ongoing litigation.
let's not forget that the Democrats were trying to reign in this practice during Obama's tenure, and the republican administration kicked the throttle back to WFO, while the Republicans controlled both branches of congres in 2017. They could have passed laws that limited it, but naw, cause drug money.
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Old 01-19-2020, 09:41 AM   #519 (permalink)
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Of all people, Eric Holder put some limitations to that kind of robbery on the federal level. Good for him (it's not often that I praise Eric Holder)

I want to see in prison the government officials who put these policies in place
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Old 01-19-2020, 09:42 AM   #520 (permalink)
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Man if you read the wallet thread, half the PBB would be suspected of illicit activity at the airport!!

Dont forget restrictions on whose butt you want to stick your dong in, or whose cooch you want to scissor with (if a woman).
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Old 01-19-2020, 09:44 AM   #521 (permalink)
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any pictures yet? this is today, right?
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Old 01-19-2020, 10:02 AM   #522 (permalink)
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yeah but the D's in power and out of power don't give a fuck about the constitution.

at least the R's out of power try to claim they do.


so, in defense of the "you could have had a Clinton", just remember that Trump was able to turn a piece of plastic into a machine gun, while we still await his ruling on silencers, and despite manufacturing crimes to stoke fears, Obama couldn't get nearly as much done as he hoped. he could only target small groups (and he did)
So, do you think a Republican governor in Virginia would be letting all this happen?

I get it, neither party is worth a fawk, but no one, and I mean no one has put up their hero to fix shit. All I hear is negative whining.

Who’s your hero?
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Old 01-19-2020, 10:13 AM   #523 (permalink)
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So, do you think a Republican governor in Virginia would be letting all this happen?

I get it, neither party is worth a fawk, but no one, and I mean no one has put up their hero to fix shit. All I hear is negative whining.

Who’s your hero?
no, but I do think that the democrats gained a majority in VA for the first time in nearly 30 years because of the response to the shit show that is trump.


and yet again, for the umpteenth time:


If conservatives and progressives didn't play games with the interpretation of the constitution to suit their pet agendas, we wouldn't have ever reached this stage.

You are a prime example of "win at all costs"
How many times have you said "well it could be worse, we could have hillary"?

Since when did choosing members of our government turn into choosing the master that fucks me the least? Since when did "well it could be worse" turn into an excuse for shitty things done?
Same shit everyone says about bumpstocks.
"well we had to give them something and Trump took the least offensive thing"
fuck that apologist bullshit.


and I campaigned actively for my hero here.
remember? You all said I was crazy, and that he was crazy, and that I had to vote trump or I was a commie because if I didn't Hillary would win?

so tell me, do you think gary johnson would be so bad now?
would he have expanded forfeiture again? banned bump stocks via redefinition of a machine gun in the exectuive branch, championed emergency protection orders, tweeted us into more confilct, cause a reaction so visceral that now we have democrats running states that haven't been democrat leaning in decades?
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Old 01-19-2020, 10:36 AM   #524 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by 87manche View Post
no, but I do think that the democrats gained a majority in VA for the first time in nearly 30 years because of the response to the shit show that is trump.


and yet again, for the umpteenth time:


If conservatives and progressives didn't play games with the interpretation of the constitution to suit their pet agendas, we wouldn't have ever reached this stage.

You are a prime example of "win at all costs"
How many times have you said "well it could be worse, we could have hillary"?

Since when did choosing members of our government turn into choosing the master that fucks me the least? Since when did "well it could be worse" turn into an excuse for shitty things done?
Same shit everyone says about bumpstocks.
"well we had to give them something and Trump took the least offensive thing"
fuck that apologist bullshit.


and I campaigned actively for my hero here.
remember? You all said I was crazy, and that he was crazy, and that I had to vote trump or I was a commie because if I didn't Hillary would win?

so tell me, do you think gary johnson would be so bad now?
would he have expanded forfeiture again? banned bump stocks via redefinition of a machine gun in the exectuive branch, championed emergency protection orders, tweeted us into more confilct, cause a reaction so visceral that now we have democrats running states that haven't been democrat leaning in decades?
Careful now, Linkslide has called Gary Johnson a loon and outright insane, or some such nonsense. He's berated me a number of times because I voted for Johnson. I don't agree with everything Johnson stands for, but at least he's not an egomaniac snake oil salesman.
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SanDiegoCJ is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-19-2020, 10:37 AM   #525 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Provience View Post
any pictures yet? this is today, right?
Tomorrow is the big lobby day but I am sure some have already arrived.
alk1174 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
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